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Your stance on gay marriage

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Ceannairceach
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Postby Ceannairceach » Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:07 pm

Tsarsgrad wrote:Disagree.I believe marrige is a religous institution.In my personal opinion, people who aren't religous shouldn't even get married.Civil Unions are offered to both in Tsarsgrad.

The law disagrees; Marriage is an entirely secular institution.

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:14 pm

Tsarsgrad wrote:Disagree.I believe marrige is a religous institution.In my personal opinion, people who aren't religous shouldn't even get married.Civil Unions are offered to both in Tsarsgrad.


But Tsargrad is not a reallife nation, and this is an OOC forum.

But which religion ? Are christians, muslims, jews, hindus, Jains, sikhs, pastafarians and followers of the church of bodymodification (yes, that exists) all allowed to claim the word "marriage" for whatever ceremony they want ?
Last edited by The Alma Mater on Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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-St George
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Postby -St George » Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:39 pm

Apollonesia wrote:
Ceannairceach wrote:Good thing that wouldn't happen with the legalization of gay marriage, since religion has nothing to do with marriage.

Not entirely correct;

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination." - Leviticus 18:22

Homosexuality itself is condemned in the Testaments, Same sex marriage is never mentioned. However, if gays and their desires are identified as shameful, marriage should be included.

You see, now that interpretation isn't entirely accurate is it? In both Christianity (where it doesn't apply as, for Christians, Jesus fulfilled The Law) and in Judaism this phrase isn't as clearcut as you make it out to be. 'Abomination' in those times had a different definition from what it does now, simply meaning 'unclean'.

Further to this, Leviticus 18:22 should, like with everything in the Bible be considered in context. Verses 6 to 18 in Lev 18 are basically a long list of forms of incest which are forbidden (18:12, for example, forbids incest with an aunt on the mother's side of family. The next verse forbids with an aunt on the father's side). Verses 19-22 are different, however, dealing with more general acts of sexual 'deviance', such as sex with a menstruating woman (18:19) and adultery with a neighbour's wife.

Verse 21 forbids ritual child sacrifice and actually names a Pagan God (Molech) who children had been sacrificed to. Molech's followers kept, like most pagan deities, temple prostitutes. Considering Leviticus 18:22 in context one can safely assume it refers to some kind of forbidden act that Jews must distance themselves from.
Last edited by -St George on Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:20 am

Apollonesia wrote:
Ceannairceach wrote:Good thing that wouldn't happen with the legalization of gay marriage, since religion has nothing to do with marriage.

Not entirely correct;

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination." - Leviticus 18:22

Homosexuality itself is condemned in the Testaments.

So?
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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:22 am

Mexico and its People wrote:Against it. Marriage is the union between one MAN and WOMAN.

According to what?
And before you say "according to god" the bible itself makes that a lie.
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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:22 am

Tsarsgrad wrote:Disagree.I believe marrige is a religous institution.In my personal opinion, people who aren't religous shouldn't even get married.Civil Unions are offered to both in Tsarsgrad.

You believe incorrectly.
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Arkere
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Postby Arkere » Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:07 am

I believe that marriage in present days is a package that has to be disentangled in its properties to further make sense.
The legal part in it is a contract between to people to form an organisation between them that allows to share workload and benefits between them and free up social resources, with a classical model of "provider" and "housekeeper". I do not see how this should be denied to people of same sex.
Religious views may differ, but that's their cup of tea. They may deny their blessings to same-sex-marriage, but that does not mean they have to have any word about legal status.

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Cthag-antil
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Postby Cthag-antil » Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:38 am

Apollonesia wrote:
Ceannairceach wrote:Good thing that wouldn't happen with the legalization of gay marriage, since religion has nothing to do with marriage.

Not entirely correct;

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination." - Leviticus 18:22

Homosexuality itself is condemned in the Testaments, Same sex marriage is never mentioned. However, if gays and their desires are identified as shameful, marriage should be included.


So should we condem everything else as condemned (or do what is commanded) by the Old Testatment or the third book of the Torah (Which Leviticus is)?

Because if so you would be labelled a fundamentalist nutjob and potentially dangerous.

Or just cherry pick those that suit our personal prejudices?

Because if so you would be a hypocrite.

It's not a teaching of Christ....to condemn anyone....rather forgive them and not to judge ;)
Last edited by Cthag-antil on Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:46 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Totalitarianople
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Postby Totalitarianople » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:01 pm

Grave_n_idle wrote:
Haktiva wrote:i don't care :p
but if i was forced to voice my opinion, it's really up to the individual religious leader to marry them


So Atheists can't marry?


Stop trolling. Please.
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Grave_n_idle
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Postby Grave_n_idle » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:05 pm

Totalitarianople wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:
So Atheists can't marry?


Stop trolling. Please.


Asking someone who seems to be suggesting that marriage is a purely religious concern, if that means Atheists can't (therefore) marry... is not trolling. In any way.
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Totalitarianople
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Postby Totalitarianople » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:20 pm

Grave_n_idle wrote:
Totalitarianople wrote:
Stop trolling. Please.


Asking someone who seems to be suggesting that marriage is a purely religious concern, if that means Atheists can't (therefore) marry... is not trolling. In any way.


You are trolling as we speak. The fact that you are attempting to start an argument and that I am getting sucked into it makes you a troll, be it intentional or not.
Quotes:
"In the Soviet Army, it takes more courage to retreat than to advance."
"Death solves all problems. No man, no problem."
"The death of one man is a tragedy; the death of millions is a statistic."

-All of which by yours truly, Joseph Stalin.


"In 1950 I wasn't pro-war, I was just anti-communist and pro-America. Then about 2 years into the war we were just north of Seoul, there was this pretty little village with all these pretty girls....we got ordered to pull back, and The Reds took the village. Calling me pro-war after that would have been an understatement."

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Samuraikoku
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Postby Samuraikoku » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:26 pm

Totalitarianople wrote:You are trolling as we speak. The fact that you are attempting to start an argument and that I am getting sucked into it makes you a troll, be it intentional or not.


You know you can choose NOT to engage in a (supposed, because he/she told you why he/she is not trolling) argument, right? Or are you going to accuse me of trolling you as well?
Last edited by Samuraikoku on Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Josh Sinister
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Postby Josh Sinister » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:28 pm

The government needs to get out of all morals; end ALL marriages and replace them ALL with civil unions.

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Shinjitai
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Postby Shinjitai » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:33 pm

Gay marriage is banned in Shinjitai but under some circumstances a civil partnership is available.
Last edited by Rebecca Black on Sun 12 Feb, 2012 12:45 pm, edited 103 times in total.
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Samuraikoku
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Postby Samuraikoku » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:33 pm

Shinjitai wrote:Gay marriage is banned in Shinjitai but under some circumstances a civil partnership is available.


Not to be rude, but this is out of character.

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Grave_n_idle
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Postby Grave_n_idle » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:34 pm

Totalitarianople wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:
Asking someone who seems to be suggesting that marriage is a purely religious concern, if that means Atheists can't (therefore) marry... is not trolling. In any way.


You are trolling as we speak.


Enough of the bullshit. If you're convinced it's trolling, take it to Moderation.

I'd be interested to see the precedent that establishes challenging a statement as trolling.
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Postby Grave_n_idle » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:35 pm

Josh Sinister wrote:The government needs to get out of all morals; end ALL marriages and replace them ALL with civil unions.


I don't want my marriage ended, thanks.
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Samuraikoku
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Postby Samuraikoku » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:36 pm

Josh Sinister wrote:The government needs to get out of all morals; end ALL marriages and replace them ALL with civil unions.


Isn't it easier - and getting out of morals, even - to just have both homosexual and heterosexual marriages?

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Shinjitai
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Postby Shinjitai » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:38 pm

Samuraikoku wrote:
Shinjitai wrote:Gay marriage is banned in Shinjitai but under some circumstances a civil partnership is available.


Not to be rude, but this is out of character.

Well for now there is civil partnerships available, there is a vote though coming up to vote in parlaiment about gay marriage
Last edited by Rebecca Black on Sun 12 Feb, 2012 12:45 pm, edited 103 times in total.
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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:38 pm

Josh Sinister wrote:The government needs to get out of all morals; end ALL marriages and replace them ALL with civil unions.


Why can religion not get out of marriages and replace them with weddings ?
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Nekronia
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Postby Nekronia » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:39 pm

Yes, gays are annoying.

But if they want to get married, that's their loss thing.
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Furious Grandmothers
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Postby Furious Grandmothers » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:39 pm

Josh Sinister wrote:The government needs to get out of all morals; end ALL marriages and replace them ALL with civil unions.

Give us good reasons why this would be better than ending ALL civil unions and replacing them ALL with marriages.
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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:40 pm

Shinjitai wrote:
Samuraikoku wrote:
Not to be rude, but this is out of character.

Well for now there is civil partnerships available, there is a vote though coming up to vote in parlaiment about gay marriage


What they mean is that on the general forum we discuss real life nations and politics.
Posts about fictional nations like Shinjitai can be done on the roleplaying - or IC - boards :)
Last edited by The Alma Mater on Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Shinjitai
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Postby Shinjitai » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:51 pm

The Alma Mater wrote:
Shinjitai wrote:Well for now there is civil partnerships available, there is a vote though coming up to vote in parlaiment about gay marriage


What they mean is that on the general forum we discuss real life nations and politics.
Posts about your nation can be done on the roleplaying - or IC - boards :)

Oops. Im new to this. Sorry. Well i think they should just have civil partnerships
Last edited by Rebecca Black on Sun 12 Feb, 2012 12:45 pm, edited 103 times in total.
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Samuraikoku
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Postby Samuraikoku » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:56 pm

Shinjitai wrote:Oops. Im new to this. Sorry. Well i think they should just have civil partnerships


Why? Where's the equality?

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