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Coronavirus Thread mark II: Official Apocalyptic Edition

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18051
Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:57 am

LRON wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:I'd hope that if he did that, lots of international investers would start arbitration proceedings against the UK.

Nothing would come of it.

I wouldn't be too certain about that. They'd have to prove to them that they took the least restrictive possible option.
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“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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San Lumen
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Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Left-wing Utopia

Postby San Lumen » Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:58 am

Salandriagado wrote:
San Lumen wrote:and he could threaten state governments, colleges and companies if they disobey him


With what, exactly?

withholding funds and other aid.

LRON wrote:
San Lumen wrote:a pandemic is not an excuse to create a dictatorship and suspend all civil liberties

Restriction on civil liberties is always an option in extreme national emergencies. Now, it would not have to occur if the average person was not a moron and followed guidelines but here we are.

No it shouldnt be. If people want to be morons that's their choice unless you want a police state

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Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18051
Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:58 am

LRON wrote:
San Lumen wrote:a pandemic is not an excuse to create a dictatorship and suspend all civil liberties

Restriction on civil liberties is always an option in extreme national emergencies. Now, it would not have to occur if the average person was not a moron and followed guidelines but here we are.

Restrictions on civil liberties are literally never justifiable.
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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LRON
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Founded: Jan 20, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby LRON » Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:59 am

San Lumen wrote:
LRON wrote:I thought you were against him doing such things?


When did I say otherwise?

Well given your recent turn that the economy is more important than saving your healthcare sector from collapsing and scores of people dying tied in with Trump's recent opening that he wants to scale back guidelines in the vain hope that will win him reelection, I kind of assumed you were okay with forcing the lockdowns to end and for people to die. It would seem to be up your boulevard as it were, old chap.
Ravenous, ridiculous, and rakish!
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Proud Tory, but no longer a member of the Conservative Party.
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LRON
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Posts: 648
Founded: Jan 20, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby LRON » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:00 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
LRON wrote:Restriction on civil liberties is always an option in extreme national emergencies. Now, it would not have to occur if the average person was not a moron and followed guidelines but here we are.

Restrictions on civil liberties are literally never justifiable.

Of course they. There are times when they have to be restricted so that the nation can make it through an emergency such as a major war, think World War II, or major devastating acts of nature such as a major pandemic.
Ravenous, ridiculous, and rakish!
Political fixer turned novelist.
Upper Class Anglo-Indian.
Proud Tory, but no longer a member of the Conservative Party.
Enthusiastically eccentric.

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San Lumen
Post Czar
 
Posts: 40835
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Left-wing Utopia

Postby San Lumen » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:00 am

LRON wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
When did I say otherwise?

Well given your recent turn that the economy is more important than saving your healthcare sector from collapsing and scores of people dying tied in with Trump's recent opening that he wants to scale back guidelines in the vain hope that will win him reelection, I kind of assumed you were okay with forcing the lockdowns to end and for people to die. It would seem to be up your boulevard as it were, old chap.


what i have said was you need to strike a balance. Lockdowns cannot be done indefinitely. The world is vastly different from 1918.

If your economy collapses the healthcare sector would be affected too.

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Lost Memories
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Posts: 1317
Founded: Nov 29, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Lost Memories » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:01 am

Rojava Free State wrote:https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/chinas-devastating-lies/

But we shouldn't call it kung flu or the chinese virus cause that's allegedly racist.

That article forgot to mention the various other people who tried to report what was going on in Wuhan at the start of the outbreak and who disappeared without trace.

Coronavirus: Why have two reporters in Wuhan disappeared?

At least 5 people in China have disappeared, gotten arrested, or been silenced after speaking out about the coronavirus
http://www.politicaltest.net/test/result/222881/
"The whole is something else than the sum of its parts" -Kurt Koffka

A fox tried to reach some grapes hanging high on the vine but was unable to.
As he went away, the fox remarked 'Oh, you aren't even ripe yet!'
As such are people who speak disparagingly of things that they cannot attain.
-The Fox and the Grapes

"Dictionaries don't decide what words mean. Prescriptivism is the ultimate form of elitism." -United Muscovite Nations
or subtle illiteracy, or lazy sidetracking. Just fucking follow the context.

Using dictionary definitions or wikipedia to support a claim, isn't smart, but only extra stupid.
As it shows you are too ignorant to know those stuff without help.

We're all a bit stupid and ignorant, just be humble about it.

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The New California Republic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26621
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:01 am

The event will still be called Tokyo 2020 despite taking place in 2021.

Lol. Sheer bloody-mindedness. "It's happening in 2021 but we are going to call it Tokyo 2020. We are. We are. It is Tokyo 2020. Lalala we can't hear you!"
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

NS Hitman
White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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LRON
Diplomat
 
Posts: 648
Founded: Jan 20, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby LRON » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:02 am

San Lumen wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
With what, exactly?

withholding funds and other aid.

LRON wrote:Restriction on civil liberties is always an option in extreme national emergencies. Now, it would not have to occur if the average person was not a moron and followed guidelines but here we are.

No it shouldnt be. If people want to be morons that's their choice unless you want a police state

Sometimes you have to go further for the betterment of the people. After all, your Abraham Lincoln quite famously suspended habeas corpus for the course of the American Civil War. That didn't turn your country into a permanent police state, with the American Stasi looming over you all.
Ravenous, ridiculous, and rakish!
Political fixer turned novelist.
Upper Class Anglo-Indian.
Proud Tory, but no longer a member of the Conservative Party.
Enthusiastically eccentric.

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Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18051
Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:02 am

LRON wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Restrictions on civil liberties are literally never justifiable.

Of course they. There are times when they have to be restricted so that the nation can make it through an emergency such as a major war, think World War II, or major devastating acts of nature such as a major pandemic.

I couldn't even support it during a war honestly, largely because I don't think my country should be involved in wars.
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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Nakena
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11281
Founded: May 06, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Nakena » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:02 am

The New California Republic wrote:
The event will still be called Tokyo 2020 despite taking place in 2021.

Lol. Sheer bloody-mindedness. "It's happening in 2021 but we are going to call it Tokyo 2020. We are. We are. It is Tokyo 2020. Lalala we can't hear you!"


They could call it Tokyo 21 and make it like be the first true Olympics of the 21th century marketing or whatever.
☯⛤ ₴ɄⱤVłV₳Ⱡ, ₳ĐV₳₦₵Ɇ₥Ɇ₦₮, ɆVØⱠɄ₮łØ₦ ⛤☯
DANCE!
To protect the world from devastation,
To unite all people within our nation,
To denounce the evil of truth and love,
To extend our reach to the stars above
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【Female or they/them pronoun preferred but not required】

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Ethel mermania
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 104400
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:03 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
LRON wrote:Restriction on civil liberties is always an option in extreme national emergencies. Now, it would not have to occur if the average person was not a moron and followed guidelines but here we are.

Restrictions on civil liberties are literally never justifiable.

Sure they are, prison is a restriction of civil liberties
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

http://www.salientpartners.com/epsilont ... ilizations

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Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18051
Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:04 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Restrictions on civil liberties are literally never justifiable.

Sure they are, prison is a restriction of civil liberties

I'm a prison abolitionist. I've discussed this on ns before.

Next?
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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Nakena
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11281
Founded: May 06, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Nakena » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:06 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Sure they are, prison is a restriction of civil liberties

I'm a prison abolitionist. I've discussed this on ns before.

Next?


You are in favor of a mad max tier society with hoppean characteristics. We know that by now.
Last edited by Nakena on Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
☯⛤ ₴ɄⱤVłV₳Ⱡ, ₳ĐV₳₦₵Ɇ₥Ɇ₦₮, ɆVØⱠɄ₮łØ₦ ⛤☯
DANCE!
To protect the world from devastation,
To unite all people within our nation,
To denounce the evil of truth and love,
To extend our reach to the stars above
【Genderqueer degenerate extraordinaire】
【Female or they/them pronoun preferred but not required】

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Czar
 
Posts: 40835
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Left-wing Utopia

Postby San Lumen » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:06 am

LRON wrote:
San Lumen wrote:withholding funds and other aid.


No it shouldnt be. If people want to be morons that's their choice unless you want a police state

Sometimes you have to go further for the betterment of the people. After all, your Abraham Lincoln quite famously suspended habeas corpus for the course of the American Civil War. That didn't turn your country into a permanent police state, with the American Stasi looming over you all.

All right lets just go ahead and suspend the constitution until there is a vaccine. Lets not hold the November election despite their being no constitutional way to cancel or postpone it.

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Ifreann
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Posts: 139215
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ifreann » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:07 am

San Lumen wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
With what, exactly?

withholding funds and other aid.

He can't withhold funds unless Congress lets him withhold funds.


The New California Republic wrote:
The event will still be called Tokyo 2020 despite taking place in 2021.

Lol. Sheer bloody-mindedness. "It's happening in 2021 but we are going to call it Tokyo 2020. We are. We are. It is Tokyo 2020. Lalala we can't hear you!"

I dunno, I think it's kinda funny to hold Tokyo 2020 in 2021. Says something about what a shambles the world is.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Coughing Etiquette That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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San Lumen
Post Czar
 
Posts: 40835
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Left-wing Utopia

Postby San Lumen » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:07 am

Ifreann wrote:
San Lumen wrote:withholding funds and other aid.

He can't withhold funds unless Congress lets him withhold funds.


The New California Republic wrote:
The event will still be called Tokyo 2020 despite taking place in 2021.

Lol. Sheer bloody-mindedness. "It's happening in 2021 but we are going to call it Tokyo 2020. We are. We are. It is Tokyo 2020. Lalala we can't hear you!"

I dunno, I think it's kinda funny to hold Tokyo 2020 in 2021. Says something about what a shambles the world is.


They said it was ok to hold up aid to Ukraine.

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Nakena
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11281
Founded: May 06, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Nakena » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:07 am

San Lumen wrote:
LRON wrote:Sometimes you have to go further for the betterment of the people. After all, your Abraham Lincoln quite famously suspended habeas corpus for the course of the American Civil War. That didn't turn your country into a permanent police state, with the American Stasi looming over you all.

All right lets just go ahead and suspend the constitution until there is a vaccine. Lets not hold the November election despite their being no constitutional way to cancel or postpone it.


Vote by mail. Or suspend the constitution.
☯⛤ ₴ɄⱤVłV₳Ⱡ, ₳ĐV₳₦₵Ɇ₥Ɇ₦₮, ɆVØⱠɄ₮łØ₦ ⛤☯
DANCE!
To protect the world from devastation,
To unite all people within our nation,
To denounce the evil of truth and love,
To extend our reach to the stars above
【Genderqueer degenerate extraordinaire】
【Female or they/them pronoun preferred but not required】

User avatar
LRON
Diplomat
 
Posts: 648
Founded: Jan 20, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby LRON » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:07 am

San Lumen wrote:
LRON wrote:Well given your recent turn that the economy is more important than saving your healthcare sector from collapsing and scores of people dying tied in with Trump's recent opening that he wants to scale back guidelines in the vain hope that will win him reelection, I kind of assumed you were okay with forcing the lockdowns to end and for people to die. It would seem to be up your boulevard as it were, old chap.


what i have said was you need to strike a balance. Lockdowns cannot be done indefinitely. The world is vastly different from 1918.

If your economy collapses the healthcare sector would be affected too.

A balance could have been struck had we not wasted our opportunity. Westerners however are too used to comfort, too soft and with a warped sense of libertas and pietas, mainly by the lack of the latter. So we did nothing. That moment to strike a balance is over, chap. Let me tell you this, as someone with lots of money - the economy will always bounce back. Dead people do not, unless you believe in zombies or something. If scores of people start dying and are being hospitalized and the healthcare system crashes even more severely I can assure you that the economic consequences of that will be far, far more devastating than a lockdown of a month or two. Investors are like zebras, they are easily scared by the slightest movement in the bush let alone if they started being chased by a lion. What you are proposing. Will. Not. Work.
Ravenous, ridiculous, and rakish!
Political fixer turned novelist.
Upper Class Anglo-Indian.
Proud Tory, but no longer a member of the Conservative Party.
Enthusiastically eccentric.

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The New California Republic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26621
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:07 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Sure they are, prison is a restriction of civil liberties

I'm a prison abolitionist. I've discussed this on ns before.

Next?

Getting someone sectioned on mental health grounds to stop a person from murdering any passerby they see because the person imagines voices are telling them to purge the world.

Yeah you are probably against someone being sectioned too. :roll:
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

NS Hitman
White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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Ethel mermania
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 104400
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:08 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Sure they are, prison is a restriction of civil liberties

I'm a prison abolitionist. I've discussed this on ns before.

Next?

I never knew, because I really dont care about you, but I am not surprised.
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

http://www.salientpartners.com/epsilont ... ilizations

User avatar
LRON
Diplomat
 
Posts: 648
Founded: Jan 20, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby LRON » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:08 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
LRON wrote:Of course they. There are times when they have to be restricted so that the nation can make it through an emergency such as a major war, think World War II, or major devastating acts of nature such as a major pandemic.

I couldn't even support it during a war honestly, largely because I don't think my country should be involved in wars.

Well if you want to believe in that kind of stupidity, you go right ahead.
Ravenous, ridiculous, and rakish!
Political fixer turned novelist.
Upper Class Anglo-Indian.
Proud Tory, but no longer a member of the Conservative Party.
Enthusiastically eccentric.

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Czar
 
Posts: 40835
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Left-wing Utopia

Postby San Lumen » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:09 am

LRON wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
what i have said was you need to strike a balance. Lockdowns cannot be done indefinitely. The world is vastly different from 1918.

If your economy collapses the healthcare sector would be affected too.

A balance could have been struck had we not wasted our opportunity. Westerners however are too used to comfort, too soft and with a warped sense of libertas and pietas, mainly by the lack of the latter. So we did nothing. That moment to strike a balance is over, chap. Let me tell you this, as someone with lots of money - the economy will always bounce back. Dead people do not, unless you believe in zombies or something. If scores of people start dying and are being hospitalized and the healthcare system crashes even more severely I can assure you that the economic consequences of that will be far, far more devastating than a lockdown of a month or two. Investors are like zebras, they are easily scared by the slightest movement in the bush let alone if they started being chased by a lion. What you are proposing. Will. Not. Work.


What;'s your solution then? Keep everything closed until there is a vaccine? You;'ll have no economy, unemployment at record highs. almost every business large and small bankrupt and a government default on the debt.

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Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18051
Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:09 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:I'm a prison abolitionist. I've discussed this on ns before.

Next?

Getting someone sectioned on mental health grounds to stop a person from murdering any passerby they see because the person imagines voices are telling them to purge the world.

Yeah you are probably against someone being sectioned too. :roll:

It's a potential masters dissertation topic of mine, in fact.
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

User avatar
LRON
Diplomat
 
Posts: 648
Founded: Jan 20, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby LRON » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:09 am

San Lumen wrote:
LRON wrote:Sometimes you have to go further for the betterment of the people. After all, your Abraham Lincoln quite famously suspended habeas corpus for the course of the American Civil War. That didn't turn your country into a permanent police state, with the American Stasi looming over you all.

All right lets just go ahead and suspend the constitution until there is a vaccine. Lets not hold the November election despite their being no constitutional way to cancel or postpone it.

Well Americans, much like quite a number of Britons, have shown they are incapable of partaking voluntarily - so perhaps, yes?
Ravenous, ridiculous, and rakish!
Political fixer turned novelist.
Upper Class Anglo-Indian.
Proud Tory, but no longer a member of the Conservative Party.
Enthusiastically eccentric.

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