NSG Senate Chamber [NSG Senate] - Version 3

[Lemanrussland]

Why isn't he? If it's a motion to split the category due to the extreme amounts of bills that are at vote at once, then I don't see any reason for it not being allowed if it's seconded 6 (7?) times!

The SIMBEDS Omnibus Procedure Act established seven omnibus categories, and made these categories to be the only way for bills to be voted on. Bills also must be assigned to their relevant category no matter what, so by breaking out of a category you break the system, and therefore the law. If you wish to write a bill amending the SIMBEDS Act, you can do so.

In hindsight, it probably would have been best to place a cap on the number of bills that could be voted on at once, and doing each section in pieces if necessary, but this issue will go away rather quickly once we clean out all these backlogged bills.

[Maklohi Vai]

The SIMBEDS Omnibus Procedure Act established seven omnibus categories, and made these categories to be the only way for bills to be voted on. Bills also must be assigned to their relevant category no matter what, so by breaking out of a category you break the system, and therefore the law. If you wish to write a bill amending the SIMBEDS Act, you can do so.

In hindsight, it probably would have been best to place a cap on the number of bills that could be voted on at once, and doing each section in pieces if necessary, but this issue will go away rather quickly once we clean out all these backlogged bills.

I anticipated that there would be some high amounts of bills going through the first cycle, but I believe in the capability of senators to digest lots of information. It's just up to them to take the time to do so.

[Welsh Cowboy]

There's no way this Senate can produce fourteen bills per category each time. I say just deal with the high volume the first time, and then use this superior system for full benefit.

[Free South Califas]

Why isn't he? If it's a motion to split the category due to the extreme amounts of bills that are at vote at once, then I don't see any reason for it not being allowed if it's seconded 6 (7?) times!

The SIMBEDS Omnibus Procedure Act established seven omnibus categories, and made these categories to be the only way for bills to be voted on. Bills also must be assigned to their relevant category no matter what, so by breaking out of a category you break the system, and therefore the law. If you wish to write a bill amending the SIMBEDS Act, you can do so.

Ah, I must have been mistaken in the advice I gave. Sorry, all.

In hindsight, it probably would have been best to place a cap on the number of bills that could be voted on at once, and doing each section in pieces if necessary, but this issue will go away rather quickly once we clean out all these backlogged bills.

I anticipated that there would be some high amounts of bills going through the first cycle, but I believe in the capability of senators to digest lots of information. It's just up to them to take the time to do so.

They won't, though. I think we all know that. I'm kind of dreading the possibility that a lot of the work I put in to bills in this category will be taken in at a glance and dismissed as flaming red communism, not given due consideration for their possible effects on unemployment and such. Maybe I'm paranoid, though.

[Welsh Cowboy]

The SIMBEDS Omnibus Procedure Act established seven omnibus categories, and made these categories to be the only way for bills to be voted on. Bills also must be assigned to their relevant category no matter what, so by breaking out of a category you break the system, and therefore the law. If you wish to write a bill amending the SIMBEDS Act, you can do so.

Ah, I must have been mistaken in the advice I gave. Sorry, all.

I anticipated that there would be some high amounts of bills going through the first cycle, but I believe in the capability of senators to digest lots of information. It's just up to them to take the time to do so.

They won't, though. I think we all know that. I'm kind of dreading the possibility that a lot of the work I put in to bills in this category will be taken in at a glance and dismissed as flaming red communism, not given due consideration for their possible effects on unemployment and such. Maybe I'm paranoid, though.

Honestly, though, Califas, I don't think any bills really receive the attention they deserve in this Chamber. We see it repeatedly: senators vote for conflicting bills, probably because of the titles. (Hey, I want to make drugs safe and control harmful substances. Never mind that one legalizes almost everything, the other illegalizes almost everything) There is no way in this system to make a one-time adjustment, and therefore, I think we just have to deal with it. Unfortunately.

Although, in the future, I think something like the budget should be separate entirely. I'll admit, I've only looked at a couple of the other bills, my comments and focus have centered around the budget.

[Phocidaea]

When does the vote on the latest omnibus begin?

[Free South Califas]

When does the vote on the latest omnibus begin?

Tentatively:
Sunday, August 4, 2013 at 11:00:00 PM CET
Sunday, August 4, 2013 at 21:00:00 UTC

However, a motion of 10 Senators with the approval of the PM, DPM or President-pro-tempore can extend the debate (push back the start of voting).

[Phocidaea]

Well then, since I'll be most definitely gone by then, under the Proxy Voting Act:

I, Phocidaea, give John Geil [Geilinor] permission to vote on my behalf for "Repeal Most of CMA", the MPA, PRFA, CBOA, and PWCA.

I, Phocidaea, give John Geil [Geilinor] permission to vote for on my behalf for the FBA, FEISMA, FVA, and RGA,

I, Phocidaea, give John Geil [Geilinor] permission to vote against on my behalf for the EDA, NTA, and ARSP 2013.

It should be assumed that any bills not mentioned would receive an abstention were I present at the time of the vote.

To Geil himself, I hope you read this and apply your best judgement with the open votes I am granting you. You are free, as far as I know, under the act, to disregard the for and against votes if you disagree with them. I just want to confirm my opinions on them.

[Glasgia]

This is my response to the policy set forward by Finium, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, as Shadow Minister of Foreign affairs. First of all, I congratulate him on his appointment. However, while he succeeds in surpassing the precedent set by his predecessor through simply stating a direction for Aurentina, his direction is both worrying and dangerous to many of the Aurentine people.

My original platforms:
- Middle East: Tribal Consolation Plan/Nation Building/Pakistan Focus
- Europe: Free Trade/German Focused/sovereign debt neutrality
- Africa: Nigerian Stabilization/Support Egyptian Military
- N. America: non-interference/no tolerance for uncoordinated intelligence
- S. America: Anti-drug/Stability/Anti-Venezuelan
- Asia: no tolerance for Korean aggression/Nation Building/India Focus

Let's start with the Middle East. Firstly, Pakistan is not usually grouped in with the region and technically should not be, but I understand some reasoning behind it. However, a small matter of wording is not important and it is your policy that is.

Your tribal consolation plans are something I can get behind if we were fighting in the Middle East. Encouraging tribal leaders to actively engage terrorism is one step towards winning a war against terrorism, a war that is barely happening in the Middle East with tribes sparse and terrorism mainly sponsored by fundamentalist religious figures. I think that policy would be more suitable to Pakistan or Afghanistan, neither in the Middle East, and there I would support you in that, a diplomatic intervention by Aurentina rather than military one.

As for nation building, again I would get behind that yet only diplomatically. We are not a great power, we are newly independent and in the middle of a global financial crisis. We cannot afford to provide funding for much of our own state, let alone others at this moment in time. Your ministry has little funding and I cannot foresee that we can participate in nation building ourselves. Instead, I would support sending diplomats to encourage such actions and advising on how to stabilise the region.

Pakistan focus on the other hand would not be backed by me. There are currently revolutions and coup d’états destabilising the region and you wish to concentrate our efforts on a single nation? As I've said before, we are a new nation, with barely established armed forces. Military intervention is not the key and diplomatic intervention is not needed in Pakistan, with both sides well aware of the situation and unlikely to compromise. Their economy too is of little importance to a Mediterranean nation like ours. I would instead direct Aurentina's efforts to Egypt and Syria, to help the flow of democracy and to negotiate an end to the violence.

It is these countries that you apparently ignore, even claiming to support the Egyptian military. While I was no fan of Morsi, he was a democratically elected President and we must respect that. Even if you will not, I myself condemn the actions of the military in Egypt as un-democratic; though I feel no further action should be taken as long as democracy prospers. As for Syria, I see you have not stated a policy on perhaps the most divisive ongoing issue. Again, I will take the initiative for you, even if it is not in your direction, and state that we must support the rebels in every way but militarily. I want to see state-funded Aurentine medical operations on the ground, I want to see Aurentine food and Aurentine water shipped to those who wish to free themselves of an oppressive regime. Though I support neutrality until forced, we have been diplomatically forced here. I will not stand for my own government to simply watch their Syrian counterpart slaughter their own people, often with weapons deemed internationally illegal, and refuse to compromise when offered peace.

I now move onto your African policy, the obvious successor to your talk of the Middle East due to the large cultural similarities. Having addressed Egypt as part of the Middle East, that leaves me with only Nigeria. Here more than anywhere I would hope your policy of nation building is encouraged. Few places in the world are ethnic divides more clear and violent. We must seek to encourage negotiation, peace and then democracy though diplomatic means and the deployment of advisors to calm the ongoing conflicts. However, if you seek to stabilise the region through other means then I would lend you my eyes and ears.

Keeping moving, Asia now. I’ll start again by saying I support diplomatic and advisory encouragement of nation building, but not actually giving funds or resources to do so. We need to focus on our own people first, then we can expand to helping other nations.

I cannot believe you continue to push interventionist policies, so I will push my point once again: We are a new nation with a military only recently established. While we should in no way co-operate or aid the North Korean regime, and I condemn the dictatorship in its entirety, we do not have the power or resources to fight it. Let the Americans and the British intervene in their war, I would rather we watch from a distance instead of endangering the lives of the Aurentine people for nothing.

As for Indian focus within the continent, that is understandable yet conflicts with your other focus of Pakistan. Unless you are completely blind of the politics in that region, the two nations are largely rivals. You stated you supported focus on Pakistan due to its nuclear power, yet both countries developed their nuclear capacity to combat the other. You cannot stray the line, you must take one side or the other; or choose neutrality. It’s the latter I recommend in conflict, yet not economically. Economically, I would recommend a distribution of our national focus between China and India, the former as the world’s largest economy still growing and the latter as an emerging economy. With strong links to both countries, we can aid the Aurentine economy with a good foreign policy.

Moving on to South America, it is this policy which I cannot understand. What do you seek to gain by opposing Venezuela? Is it simply to pander to the American needs, or is there some other reason behind your thinking? And being anti-drug? Of course we should be against drug trafficking, if that’s what you mean, but as I’ve said before we should not – cannot - intervene in other country’s affairs as we ourselves are newly independent and plagued with much organised crime. Stability is also vague, as that could mean fighting against drugs, battling corruption, nation building, state building or much more.

North we go, to the other continent in the Americas. This is one of the few regional policies I completely agree with. There is no reason for us to interfere in North America, a point I would press all over the world but at least we see eye to eye on one continent, and there is no reason the US should interfere with us, therefore we should condemn the NSA and I support the act proposed by Senator Nepal to do so. However, I feel that if I agree with everything proposed then something is missing. Something is: Economic co-operation. We must try and strengthen economic ties with the US as one of the strongest economies in the world, which will bring new life to the Aurentine economy.

Finally, Europe. As you say, free trade is a must. Various theories and knowledge supports this, so it would be foolish to deny the Aurentine market its partners. However, how do you intend to implement this stance? Through the EFTA, EU, another treaty or one nation at a time? You have talked of a German focus and even close ties with the Eurozone, so I will assume you have chosen to side with the European Union. I know warn you against such a stance. The Euro is a failing currency and we must not secure ourselves to a sinking ship. There are other means with which we can enter the European Economic Agreement, promptly the European free Trade Agreement. We can allow free passage of trade without drowning ourselves in the global recession.

That is all I have to say, though I have likely missed out a point or two. While I hope you take my opinions into account, I obviously understand if you do not: What good would I be as opposition if we agreed?

[Geilinor]

Public Post-Secondary Education Establishment Act

Drafted by: John Geil (Geilinor, LD)
Sponsors: Free South Califas(C), Potenco(RG), Yanalia(RG), Maklohi Vai(LD), The Realm of God(PC), Malgrave(USLP), Great Nepal(CFE), Bleckonia(CFE), Glasgia(MSP)
i. Preamble
This bill establishes a system of public community colleges and universities. The bill aims to provide an affordable, high-quality system of post-secondary education for as many Aurentines as possible.

ii. Definitions
When used in this act, the following terms will be defined as stated under this section.
a) Post-secondary or tertiary education - Education beyond the secondary level, especially education at the college or university level.
b) Public community college - A government-supported college that offers 2-year degrees and vocational education programs.
c) Public university - A public university is a university that is predominantly funded by public means through the government of Aurentina.
Public universities offer 3-year degrees and above.

iii. Provisions
A network of public post-secondary education shall be set up throughout the country. The Aurentine Public Post-Secondary Education Board(APPSEB) shall be established as a department within the Ministry of Education charged with regulating and overseeing public post-secondary education throughout the country.
1) The APPSEB shall be responsible for selecting appropriate sites for the construction of public community colleges and universities and overseeing the building of these establishments.
2) The APPSEB shall also ensure that all educational establishments under its jurisdiction comply with any curriculum, admissions and fee guidelines set by the Senate.

iv. Funding
1. Funding for the provisions of this bill shall be apportioned by the Ministry of Education out of its budget.

Something for the Education omnibus.

[Senate President pro Tempore]

Public Post-Secondary Education Establishment Act added to Domestic Development omnibus, inferred from 'Education'. Thanks, Senator.

[Senate President pro Tempore]

Reposting this so everyone can try to choke down all these bills

Business & Finance
To deal with issues pertinent to the Work, Commerce, and Treasury ministries
CURRENTLY AT DEBATE

---

- Repeal Most of the Commerce Ministry Act
-Fair Business Act
- Military Pensions Act
- Protection from Religious Fraud Act
- Economic Democratisation Act
- Participatory Consumption Systems Act
- Free Education for Innovative Self-Management
- Collective Benefit Option Act
- Public Work Centre Act
- National Tariff
- Reasonable Wage Act
- Food Vendor Act
- Responsible Government Act
- Aurentine Revenue and Spending Plans for 2013

[Threlizdun]

Reposting this so everyone can try to choke down all these bills

Business & Finance
To deal with issues pertinent to the Work, Commerce, and Treasury ministries
CURRENTLY AT DEBATE

---

- Repeal Most of the Commerce Ministry Act
-Fair Business Act
- Military Pensions Act
- Protection from Religious Fraud Act
- Economic Democratisation Act
- Participatory Consumption Systems Act
- Free Education for Innovative Self-Management
- Collective Benefit Option Act
- Public Work Centre Act
- National Tariff
- Reasonable Wage Act
- Food Vendor Act
- Responsible Government Act
- Aurentine Revenue and Spending Plans for 2013

Have we officially entered the debating period for these bills?

[Yanalia]

Reposting this so everyone can try to choke down all these bills

Have we officially entered the debating period for these bills?

Yes.

[Bleckonia]

I am making a slight change to the Fair Business Act by adding in a paragraph to repeal the EDA if both acts are somehow passed.

[Yanalia]

FSC, could you add a clause to the EDA repealing the FBA?

[Threlizdun]

I still feel that the Protection from Religious Fraud Act is far too lenient in regards to the qualifications for recieving tax exempt status. It simply specifies that it must participate in charitable work. It doesn't even provide an amount of charitable work that is necessary to recieve tax exempt status. There are religious organizations making billions a year, and in accordance to this act, picking up trash once a year would be enough to get them tax exempt. Literally no religion will ever get taxed under this legislation. Until we provide a required amount of charitable work, this act will be completely useless.

[Bleckonia]

FSC, could you add a clause to the EDA repealing the FBA?

Lol, if they both passed neither of them would take any effect.

[Beta Test]

The EDA sounds to me like the WEA, which is something I can not support.

[Yanalia]

FSC, could you add a clause to the EDA repealing the FBA?

Lol, if they both passed neither of them would take any effect.

No, since if neither took effect, both would, which would mean neither would, which would mean both would...

[Beta Test]

Since no one answered me in the lobby, I'll ask again here

Who is more powerful, the president or prime minister?

[Free South Califas]

Since no one answered me in the lobby, I'll ask again here

Who is more powerful, the president or prime minister?

Don't. This question belongs in the lobby.

The EDA sounds to me like the WEA, which is something I can not support.

It's a significant compromise. Have you read it in detail? Is there simply no pleasing you on this issue?

[Free South Califas]

Are any religious entities tax-exempt now? If they aren't, then PRFA would make many of them exempt. What law makes them exempt now, if any?

FSC, could you add a clause to the EDA repealing the FBA?

Done, and sad that it be necessary. If over 70% of the workers in a division of one's company think they can elect a better manager, it seems one ought to try letting them.

[Welsh Cowboy]

I oppose the EDA (yay! I read another one of these bills thoroughly), but I suspect the disagreement is purely ideological. I just don't think that someone should be able to be stripped of their property and business without their consent. Especially since the state can never compensate them for what the value of the company might be in the future. I should be able to utilize my property or run my company as I see fit. (Within reasonable restrictions, of course.)

However, just because I disagree with this act does not give me free reign to demagogue and attack the authors or question their characters or motivations. We use democracy for a reason; we want different viewpoints to be recognized.

[Oneracon]

I still feel that the Protection from Religious Fraud Act is far too lenient in regards to the qualifications for recieving tax exempt status. It simply specifies that it must participate in charitable work. It doesn't even provide an amount of charitable work that is necessary to recieve tax exempt status. There are religious organizations making billions a year, and in accordance to this act, picking up trash once a year would be enough to get them tax exempt. Literally no religion will ever get taxed under this legislation. Until we provide a required amount of charitable work, this act will be completely useless.

Senator, if the act passes I will gladly work with you in amending it with reasonable limits.