NATION

PASSWORD

[Abortion Thread] (NEW POLL) A conflict of rights. (READ OP)

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

In a conflict of rights between a woman and a zygote/fetus/etc, who do you side with?

The Woman (Pro-Choice)
329
36%
The Unborn (Pro-Life)
289
32%
HEY! What About The Man? (I dun’ like double standards!)
84
9%
I Wish There Wasn’t A Conflict At All (fix other stuff first, then we can talk)
97
11%
My Morals! (Insert morals here)
47
5%
Science/Philosophy/Religion Has GOT To Have A Relevant Quote Somewhere... (insert quote here for summary vivisection)
56
6%
 
Total votes : 902

User avatar
Godular
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9068
Founded: Sep 09, 2004
New York Times Democracy

[Abortion Thread] (NEW POLL) A conflict of rights. (READ OP)

Postby Godular » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:09 pm

EDITED TO ADD: NEW POLL! Aw crap I forgot to keep the records of the last... oh well.

PLEASE READ CAREFULLY: YOU HAVE TWO CHOICES AVAILABLE. CHOOSE ONE OF THE FIRST TWO OPTIONS, THEN ONE OF THE LAST FOUR.

This is to gauge WHY one might side the way they do, BROADLY generalizing the four most prominent arguments from either side.

CHANGELOG: Altered the double standard option to be more general.


To mods: I’m hoping to keep this separate from the other currently open thread on abortion and disabilities, as that seems as a specific sub-argument for the greater issue.

Oh yeah... previous threads for reading displeasure:

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=415543 - If you had the power...
https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=388685 - pro choice or pro life / five points review
Last edited by Godular on Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:02 am, edited 12 times in total.
RL position
Active RP: ASCENSION
Active RP: SHENRYAX

Faction 1: The An'Kazar Control Framework of Godular-- A collective of formerly human bioborgs engaged in a galaxy-spanning reign of terror for as-yet-unknown reasons. (SWG)

Faction 2: The Servants of the True Way of the Will-- A multi-species anti-technology crusade that travels the galaxy in ships brought forth from the power of their own minds. (MWG) (Faction represented in WA)

A 3.1 civilization, according to this Nation Index Thingie

User avatar
Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 62788
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Genivaria » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:19 pm

Something that always bugs me is that too often the same people who are 'pro-life' also support measures that would actually reduce teen pregnancy rates and abortion.
Last edited by Genivaria on Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
General Sherman did nothing wrong, fact.
Liberal Social Democrat.

User avatar
Geneviev
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8411
Founded: Mar 03, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Geneviev » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:21 pm

And now, let the insanity begin.

Abortion is really only justifiable if the mother's life or the child's life are in danger, but the government should not ban abortion because that won't fix the problem.
Give music to dementia patients
Bring music education back to schools
"When words fail, music speaks." -Shakespeare
"Music expresses feeling and thought, without language; it was below and before speech, and it is above and beyond all words." -Robert G. Ingersoll
Now 15 years old. Listen to music and have a nice day.

User avatar
Auze
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1417
Founded: Oct 31, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Auze » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:23 pm

New thread smell. I've learned from last time, and this I propose that we cover the surfaces with flame resistant foil.
Tarsonis wrote: You broke the chain Auze, shame on you.
If you are reading this...
Hello, I'm an LDS kid from South Carolina!
I'm a straight, cis male with socialist leanings.
Best thread title ever.
We can win World War Glitter!

User avatar
The South Falls
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10648
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The South Falls » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:23 pm

Geneviev wrote:And now, let the insanity begin.

Abortion is really only justifiable if the mother's life or the child's life are in danger, but the government should not ban abortion because that won't fix the problem.

So you're morally against it, but legally for it?

I'm in it full-access.
This is an MT or PMT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.
Satsuki is in fact the edgiest I could get without breaking site rules.
You have seen a wild South Fallus Fallusi Texaso nativa. Your Friendly Neighborhood Black Kid. Social Democrat,
sometimes breaks rules. Sorry! I've got myself a nice situation with tea, so I'm doing good there.

Political Compass Results:

Economic: -6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.28

I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that. Yes, we're pretty much a different Australia.

User avatar
Geneviev
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8411
Founded: Mar 03, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Geneviev » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:27 pm

The South Falls wrote:
Geneviev wrote:And now, let the insanity begin.

Abortion is really only justifiable if the mother's life or the child's life are in danger, but the government should not ban abortion because that won't fix the problem.

So you're morally against it, but legally for it?

I'm in it full-access.

Yeah, pretty much.
Give music to dementia patients
Bring music education back to schools
"When words fail, music speaks." -Shakespeare
"Music expresses feeling and thought, without language; it was below and before speech, and it is above and beyond all words." -Robert G. Ingersoll
Now 15 years old. Listen to music and have a nice day.

User avatar
Telconi
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22557
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:31 pm

Only permitted in such a situation ad to cause a net preservation of life. Er go, when termination causes a higher number of living people than attempting to carry the pregnancy.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Sovaal
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13189
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Sovaal » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:44 pm

I'm still pretty shaky on this subject tbh, tho if I had to pick whenever the fetus can survive outside of the mother, or just a few weeks before so.

Dirty centrist
Unapologetic Jon Snow supporter
"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

User avatar
Baalkistann
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 190
Founded: Sep 06, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Baalkistann » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:44 pm

To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

User avatar
Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 62788
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Genivaria » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:46 pm

Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

How does it not make sense?
Do men not have that right?
General Sherman did nothing wrong, fact.
Liberal Social Democrat.

User avatar
Neutraligon
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 31312
Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:46 pm

Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

So long as I can take your organs and enslave you in turn.
If you want to call me by a nickname, call me Gon...or NS Batman.
Mod stuff: One Stop Rules Shop | Reppy's Sig Workshop | Getting Help Request
Just A Little though

User avatar
Telconi
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22557
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:52 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

So long as I can take your organs and enslave you in turn.


Or not.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Sovaal
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13189
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Sovaal » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:52 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

So long as I can take your organs and enslave you in turn.

I call the gall bladder!

Dirty centrist
Unapologetic Jon Snow supporter
"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

User avatar
Baalkistann
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 190
Founded: Sep 06, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Baalkistann » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:54 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

So long as I can take your organs and enslave you in turn.


You can do whatever you want with my organs when I’m dead just like they do with the kids they abort

User avatar
New haven america
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 29881
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby New haven america » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:01 pm

Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

What century do you live in?
Human of the male variety
Will accept TGs
Char/Axis 2020

That's all folks~

User avatar
The Anglo-American Commonwealth
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 41
Founded: Jan 25, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby The Anglo-American Commonwealth » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:07 pm

Full access, of course.
Baalkistann wrote:The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

Why?
The Anglo-American Commonwealth: a political and economic union of the following anglophone states: Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States, and all of their dependencies. Operates under a democratic, neoliberal framework.

"Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent." ~Wittgenstein
"Man is the measure of all things." ~Protagoras
"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows." ~Bob Dylan
Agnostic, diarist, absurdist, politically confused, failed intellectual
Disclaimer: this nation does not represent my real life views.

User avatar
Dogmeat
Minister
 
Posts: 2161
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Dogmeat » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:17 pm

Geneviev wrote:And now, let the insanity begin.

Abortion is really only justifiable if the mother's life or the child's life are in danger, but the government should not ban abortion because that won't fix the problem.

Very well. The mothers life is always in danger. Pregnancy carries with it an increased risk of ischemic stroke and intracerebral hemorrhage. Among many other potentially fatal complications, and lifelong deterioration of health.

User avatar
Hakons
Senator
 
Posts: 4356
Founded: Jul 14, 2015
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Hakons » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:54 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

So long as I can take your organs and enslave you in turn.


>Pretending a fetus is like an organ
Socially Catholic, fiscally Catholic
Moderation knows your own words better than you

User avatar
Dogmeat
Minister
 
Posts: 2161
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Dogmeat » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:58 pm

Hakons wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:So long as I can take your organs and enslave you in turn.


>Pretending a fetus is like an organ

Did they really though?

User avatar
Geneviev
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8411
Founded: Mar 03, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Geneviev » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:10 pm

New haven america wrote:
Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

What century do you live in?

The 21st, last I checked. And you must be in another century.
Last edited by Geneviev on Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Give music to dementia patients
Bring music education back to schools
"When words fail, music speaks." -Shakespeare
"Music expresses feeling and thought, without language; it was below and before speech, and it is above and beyond all words." -Robert G. Ingersoll
Now 15 years old. Listen to music and have a nice day.

User avatar
Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft
Minister
 
Posts: 3374
Founded: Jul 14, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:39 pm

Given that multiple scientific studies suggest that a fetus becomes conscious at 24-30 weeks, I'd set the limit of abortions at 24 weeks (which is also the limit of viability, so countries such as the United States and the UK can leave the limit where it is) - the vast majority of abortions (especially elective abortions) happen before 12 weeks, let alone 24, though.

User avatar
Senkaku
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16246
Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby Senkaku » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:40 pm

Baalkistann wrote:The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

Does "men have the right to do what they want with their bodies" make sense as a proposition?
Instagay

Athrax wrote:
Gauthier wrote:How many times a month did Kennedy visit Dallas?


Only once. He got a mindblowing reception though

The Nuclear Fist wrote:Just try and find a seat without getting your bollocks stuck in a light socket.

Lunas Legion wrote:That's NS for you. It has 2 speeds; a rape train with no brakes or brakes with no train.

Diopolis wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:Sanders/Trump 2016

Mexico will pay for our universal healthcare!

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:
Dogmeat wrote:The strobe was a little much.

But then the beat dropped and it was just perfect.

User avatar
The South Falls
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10648
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The South Falls » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:42 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Baalkistann wrote:The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

Does "men have the right to do what they want with their bodies" make sense as a proposition?

No one has the right to do anything with their bodies. They belong to the state now.
This is an MT or PMT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.
Satsuki is in fact the edgiest I could get without breaking site rules.
You have seen a wild South Fallus Fallusi Texaso nativa. Your Friendly Neighborhood Black Kid. Social Democrat,
sometimes breaks rules. Sorry! I've got myself a nice situation with tea, so I'm doing good there.

Political Compass Results:

Economic: -6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.28

I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that. Yes, we're pretty much a different Australia.

User avatar
Katganistan
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 30987
Founded: Antiquity
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Katganistan » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:00 pm

I would prefer there also be comprehensive sex ed and access to low-cost/free contraception and or/the stigma is greatly reduced for being forced to use social welfare programs, to greatly reduce unintended pregnancy, but -- generally I am for abortion up until the fetus could reasonably be able to survive outside the womb, barring medical necessity.

User avatar
The South Falls
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10648
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The South Falls » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:36 pm

Let's remember, all, that the Catholic church is against contraception and abortion. It doesn't make sense.
This is an MT or PMT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.
Satsuki is in fact the edgiest I could get without breaking site rules.
You have seen a wild South Fallus Fallusi Texaso nativa. Your Friendly Neighborhood Black Kid. Social Democrat,
sometimes breaks rules. Sorry! I've got myself a nice situation with tea, so I'm doing good there.

Political Compass Results:

Economic: -6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.28

I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that. Yes, we're pretty much a different Australia.

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: An Alan Smithee Nation, Duhon, Vivaxea

Advertisement

Remove ads