NATION

PASSWORD

EDITED: Review/Complaint about NationStates in general

Bug reports, general help, ideas for improvements, and questions about how things are meant to work.
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The HoneyRose Commune
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Posts: 24
Founded: Apr 16, 2017
Ex-Nation

EDITED: Review/Complaint about NationStates in general

Postby The HoneyRose Commune » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:48 pm

[EDIT: This seems to have become more of a list new players encounter. I would suggest reading some of the responses as I don't feel as passionate about this anymore and am starting to enjoy the game but this all may be useful for newer players to see common problems they encounter and how to prevent or at least get use to so you're not as cought off guard.]

To the makers and mods of the NationStates Sim,

I’m writing this because I felt like my rants in my regions discord chat aren’t really productive in fixing the problems I’ve found with this game (no one was really complaining but I was still aware there where probably better ways of going about this). I’m actually hoping people that have the power to change some issues will actually read all of this since I don’t really have a sense of how these forums are to their users, but I’m cautiously optimistic.

First off, I want to start by saying I like this whole premise of a game. I really want to like this game. It’s incredibly original, very fun, and offers an escape from actual politics in this day and age. I’d much rather wake up to the daily issues to fix rather than read another headline about my lunatic president that scares the hell out of me (again). In hindsight, maybe that means I took the game more seriously than I should have, it is more of a typical simulator game, but the whole point is to put you in control of your Nation, for you to truly decide what goes and doesn’t go. Making you somewhat of a god of this place, if you decide to be. That brings me to the meat of the issue of the game.

I have been playing for one day and I already have massive headaches because the way this thing is set up really screws over new users. My economy is in shambles, I’ve misclicked 3 legislations by now and can’t repeal them (I know it’s a typical sim game but maybe leaning toward the side of realistic would really help here) and I’ve already contemplated just abandoning ship and starting over. But even abandoning a Nation isn’t a good option because you have to wait 28 days (longer if you’re new) for the nation to delete itself instead of giving us the option to just tank it. For a game with really unforgiving legislation rules, it sure as hell makes sure you don’t want to come back before letting you start over. And don’t get me started on the fact you can’t change names, this whole setup has completed every part of my “social network pet peeves” list of bad settings.

Like I said, I want to like this game, but I can’t deal with how not user friendly it is. Like I said, I’ve been here one day and I’m seriously considering just abandoning ship all together and the fact I actually really like the game makes it so much worse!!! The whole thing is like the game equivalent of seeing a really good idea for a story written really poorly and it’s So. Damn. Frustrating. I’m not saying I could do it better, because I know I couldn’t, but the people who manage this game could really do well with considering changing some the game settings to be more users friendly. One good suggestion is making a tutorial that doesn’t bore the user and actually give us better warnings about things you can’t reverse., giving us more control over how fast issues come in (I don’t wanna wait 3+ hours for every. Single. Issue).

Like I said, I love this game, but I feel like it’s been executed so poorly that I’m not surprised people abandon ship a week or even a few days in. There are a lot of really good things about it, and that’s a huge feat for a really new game, I’m not trying to take away from that and I really don’t wanna give up on it, but the issues it has are so glaring I just can’t look past it anymore, it’s getting too frustrating and it’s not fun anymore.

I don't know if I’m gonna abandon ship here in a bit but I really hope you guys actually take this into consideration. I still really love this game and maybe I just need to come back to it later but I really hate to see people like me be detoured because of a few settings. This game is still great regardless and will probably be more fun when I know what I’m doing. If you’ve read this far, I honestly, truly appreciate this! I know you guys get hundreds of messages every day and it really says a lot about how much you care about your users to just listen. I hope my ranting doesn’t come off as too rude; I’m just a bit overwhelmed.

Sincerely,
Sugar Kane (Leader of The HoneyRose Commune)
Last edited by The HoneyRose Commune on Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Abhichandra
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Posts: 434
Founded: Dec 27, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Abhichandra » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:57 pm

Well, regarding the part about you mis-clicking issues. Yes, I know this is frustrating, and I have done that myself. One way to (try) to prevent this is going to settings, and checking 'Require Confirmation Before Passing Legislation' before pressing it.

Also, you can have more than one regular nation (but only one WA nation). If you let your current one Cease to Exist, you will still have to wait 5 years until you can use the name again.
Last edited by Abhichandra on Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Gandoor
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Founded: Sep 23, 2008
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Gandoor » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:16 pm

Okay first off, you've been playing the game for a day.

And it should be stated that while your economy is in shambles, when your nation is still new, it's actually easier to fix it with issues than it is a nation that's been around for a while.

And to reply about specific things from your OP:
But even abandoning a Nation isn’t a good option because you have to wait 28 days (longer if you’re new) for the nation to delete itself instead of giving us the option to just tank it.

There are no limits to as many nations as you have at one time. I, for example, have twenty nations and there are users with hundreds of accounts.

And don’t get me started on the fact you can’t change names

Nation names are not changeable because when this site was created back in 2002, Max Barry (the site's owner) thought this would just be a game that people would play for a few weeks and then get bored, so your nation name is your user ID and there is no way to change that without the admins going and changing literally EVERY reference to your nation name on the site to your new name. (And I believe they've only done it once or twice and it was due to it being a user that had been here since almost the beginning)

actually give us better warnings about things you can’t reverse

As the user above me stated, you can enable 'Require confirmation to pass legislation' in your settings.

giving us more control over how fast issues come in (I don’t wanna wait 3+ hours for every. Single. Issue).

Well here's the thing with that, up until last year, you had to wait twelve hours to get a new issue (updates are around 12.00 PM EST and 12.00 AM EST), you only got two issues per day, and your only choice of control was 'vacation mode', meaning you either got two issues a day every twelve hours or no issues at all. (You also had to wait until the next update for your issue choice to be accepted)

Compare that to nowadays where you can choose between no throttle (6 hours per issue), 12 hours, 24 hours, or 48 hours per issue and you can receive up to 4 issues per day. Your issue choices are also implemented automatically. Is it perfect? No, but it was changed recently.

a really new game

Just a nitpick thing, this site has been around since 2002, it is not 'a really new game'.
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The HoneyRose Commune
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Posts: 24
Founded: Apr 16, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The HoneyRose Commune » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:22 pm

Abhichandra wrote:Well, regarding the part about you mis-clicking issues. Yes, I know this is frustrating, and I have done that myself. One way to (try) to prevent this is going to settings, and checking 'Require Confirmation Before Passing Legislation' before pressing it.

Also, you can have more than one regular nation (but only one WA nation). If you let your current one Cease to Exist, you will still have to wait 5 years until you can use the name again.


5 YEARS?! That's absolutely insane!

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USS Monitor
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 27348
Founded: Jul 01, 2015
19th Century Iron Steamship

Postby USS Monitor » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:31 pm

The HoneyRose Commune wrote:I have been playing for one day and I already have massive headaches because the way this thing is set up really screws over new users. My economy is in shambles, I’ve misclicked 3 legislations by now and can’t repeal them (I know it’s a typical sim game but maybe leaning toward the side of realistic would really help here) and I’ve already contemplated just abandoning ship and starting over. But even abandoning a Nation isn’t a good option because you have to wait 28 days (longer if you’re new) for the nation to delete itself instead of giving us the option to just tank it. For a game with really unforgiving legislation rules, it sure as hell makes sure you don’t want to come back before letting you start over. And don’t get me started on the fact you can’t change names, this whole setup has completed every part of my “social network pet peeves” list of bad settings.


You're allowed to start a 2nd nation before the old one ceases to exist. You just can't have both nations in the WA at the same time.

I'm not sure why your economy tanked, but it is possible to rebuild it by answering more issues if you want to try going that route instead of making a new nation.

Like I said, I want to like this game, but I can’t deal with how not user friendly it is. Like I said, I’ve been here one day and I’m seriously considering just abandoning ship all together and the fact I actually really like the game makes it so much worse!!! The whole thing is like the game equivalent of seeing a really good idea for a story written really poorly and it’s So. Damn. Frustrating. I’m not saying I could do it better, because I know I couldn’t, but the people who manage this game could really do well with considering changing some the game settings to be more users friendly. One good suggestion is making a tutorial that doesn’t bore the user and actually give us better warnings about things you can’t reverse., giving us more control over how fast issues come in (I don’t wanna wait 3+ hours for every. Single. Issue).



The problem with making issues come more often is that there is a limited pool of issues. If you play for a long time, you can get the same issue more than once. If the issues came at shorter intervals, there would be more repeats.

We do have people working on expanding the issues pool, but it takes time to write and edit them and get everything set up. If you are interested in helping with the writing part, you can visit the "Got Issues?" forum.
Don't take life so serious... it isn't permanent... RIP Dyakovo and Ashmoria
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The HoneyRose Commune
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Posts: 24
Founded: Apr 16, 2017
Ex-Nation

Review/Complaint about NationStates in general

Postby The HoneyRose Commune » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:47 pm

Gandoor wrote:Okay first off, you've been playing the game for a day.

And it should be stated that while your economy is in shambles, when your nation is still new, it's actually easier to fix it with issues than it is a nation that's been around for a while.

And to reply about specific things from your OP:
But even abandoning a Nation isn’t a good option because you have to wait 28 days (longer if you’re new) for the nation to delete itself instead of giving us the option to just tank it.

There are no limits to as many nations as you have at one time. I, for example, have twenty nations and there are users with hundreds of accounts.

And don’t get me started on the fact you can’t change names

Nation names are not changeable because when this site was created back in 2002, Max Barry (the site's owner) thought this would just be a game that people would play for a few weeks and then get bored, so your nation name is your user ID and there is no way to change that without the admins going and changing literally EVERY reference to your nation name on the site to your new name. (And I believe they've only done it once or twice and it was due to it being a user that had been here since almost the beginning)

actually give us better warnings about things you can’t reverse

As the user above me stated, you can enable 'Require confirmation to pass legislation' in your settings.

giving us more control over how fast issues come in (I don’t wanna wait 3+ hours for every. Single. Issue).

Well here's the thing with that, up until last year, you had to wait twelve hours to get a new issue (updates are around 12.00 PM EST and 12.00 AM EST), you only got two issues per day, and your only choice of control was 'vacation mode', meaning you either got two issues a day every twelve hours or no issues at all. (You also had to wait until the next update for your issue choice to be accepted)

Compare that to nowadays where you can choose between no throttle (6 hours per issue), 12 hours, 24 hours, or 48 hours per issue and you can receive up to 4 issues per day. Your issue choices are also implemented automatically. Is it perfect? No, but it was changed recently.

a really new game

Just a nitpick thing, this site has been around since 2002, it is not 'a really new game'.


Thank you for actually reading my post and putting in more constructive information. I was at a bit of a boiling point writing it despite trying to really think about what I was writing so I hope I didn't seem like a spoiled new kid. I do have replies to some of these arguments.

1>Economy: That's genuinely good to know, thank you
2 & 3>New Nations and Names: I know you can have more than one but you have to wait 5 years to reuse a name and I don't wanna come up with new names when my main goal was just to restart, though how you explained it it's clear the issue is more complicated than the push of a button, it dosen't change the fact its a an issue but still good to have a better understanding of why, so thank you again
4>Legislation Confirmation: I knew about that setting but no one told me it would be important to keep on or the fact that legislations where irreversible
5>Issue times: Again, good to know, but that dosen't mean it's not an issue
6>When the game was made: Again, genuinely good to know, thank you

While I still think there are issues to be dealt with, from your response I can see it's not as simple as I thought and Im glad I have a better understanding of how this all works, so thank you for your response

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The HoneyRose Commune
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Posts: 24
Founded: Apr 16, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The HoneyRose Commune » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:50 pm

USS Monitor wrote:
The HoneyRose Commune wrote:I have been playing for one day and I already have massive headaches because the way this thing is set up really screws over new users. My economy is in shambles, I’ve misclicked 3 legislations by now and can’t repeal them (I know it’s a typical sim game but maybe leaning toward the side of realistic would really help here) and I’ve already contemplated just abandoning ship and starting over. But even abandoning a Nation isn’t a good option because you have to wait 28 days (longer if you’re new) for the nation to delete itself instead of giving us the option to just tank it. For a game with really unforgiving legislation rules, it sure as hell makes sure you don’t want to come back before letting you start over. And don’t get me started on the fact you can’t change names, this whole setup has completed every part of my “social network pet peeves” list of bad settings.


You're allowed to start a 2nd nation before the old one ceases to exist. You just can't have both nations in the WA at the same time.

I'm not sure why your economy tanked, but it is possible to rebuild it by answering more issues if you want to try going that route instead of making a new nation.

Like I said, I want to like this game, but I can’t deal with how not user friendly it is. Like I said, I’ve been here one day and I’m seriously considering just abandoning ship all together and the fact I actually really like the game makes it so much worse!!! The whole thing is like the game equivalent of seeing a really good idea for a story written really poorly and it’s So. Damn. Frustrating. I’m not saying I could do it better, because I know I couldn’t, but the people who manage this game could really do well with considering changing some the game settings to be more users friendly. One good suggestion is making a tutorial that doesn’t bore the user and actually give us better warnings about things you can’t reverse., giving us more control over how fast issues come in (I don’t wanna wait 3+ hours for every. Single. Issue).



The problem with making issues come more often is that there is a limited pool of issues. If you play for a long time, you can get the same issue more than once. If the issues came at shorter intervals, there would be more repeats.

We do have people working on expanding the issues pool, but it takes time to write and edit them and get everything set up. If you are interested in helping with the writing part, you can visit the "Got Issues?" forum.


Thank you for the constructive response, I have some responses again

1>Names and Nations: I know you can make new nations but I don't wanna wait 5 years just to restart with my preferred name (however i got more info on how names work so I can tell this isn't exactly an easy problem
2>Issue Times: That is really good to know, actually, I didn't have much info on this game and knowing the sources of problems is very helpful

Sorry if I seemed ranty, I obviously know much less about the game functions than I initially thought

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Holy Marsh
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Holy Marsh » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:55 pm

No reason to abandon anything, Honeyrose. You are new and small, a few misclicks on your part can be reversed very easily and quickly.
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USS Monitor
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Founded: Jul 01, 2015
19th Century Iron Steamship

Postby USS Monitor » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:03 pm

The HoneyRose Commune wrote:Sorry if I seemed ranty, I obviously know much less about the game functions than I initially thought


It's normal not to know everything when you're new.
Don't take life so serious... it isn't permanent... RIP Dyakovo and Ashmoria
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༄༅། །འགྲོ་བ་མི་རིགས་ག་ར་དབང་ཆ་འདྲ་མཉམ་འབད་སྒྱེཝ་ལས་ག་ར་གིས་གཅིག་གིས་གཅིག་ལུ་སྤུན་ཆའི་དམ་ཚིག་བསྟན་དགོས།

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Socio Polor
Diplomat
 
Posts: 1000
Founded: Nov 28, 2015
New York Times Democracy

Postby Socio Polor » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:11 pm

USS Monitor wrote:
The HoneyRose Commune wrote:Sorry if I seemed ranty, I obviously know much less about the game functions than I initially thought


It's normal not to know everything when you're new.

Yeah, I've been here for two years and even I don't know everything. Heck, There are some players thath have been here since November 2002 and don't know everything.
"Man is nature. What we create is an extension of nature. God is nothing more than a symptom of an irrational fear of the unknown."
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USS Monitor
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Founded: Jul 01, 2015
19th Century Iron Steamship

Postby USS Monitor » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:20 pm

Socio Polor wrote:
USS Monitor wrote:
It's normal not to know everything when you're new.

Yeah, I've been here for two years and even I don't know everything. Heck, There are some players thath have been here since November 2002 and don't know everything.


There are some players that are game mods and don't know everything. There are a lot of raiders and defenders that know more than I do about the mechanics of regions and influence and whatnot.
Don't take life so serious... it isn't permanent... RIP Dyakovo and Ashmoria
~~One Stop Rules Shop (OSRS)~~Getting Help (GHR)~~
༄༅། །འགྲོ་བ་མི་རིགས་ག་ར་དབང་ཆ་འདྲ་མཉམ་འབད་སྒྱེཝ་ལས་ག་ར་གིས་གཅིག་གིས་གཅིག་ལུ་སྤུན་ཆའི་དམ་ཚིག་བསྟན་དགོས།

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Drasnia
Minister
 
Posts: 2440
Founded: Feb 02, 2012
Anarchy

Postby Drasnia » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:24 pm

I think you're looking at it in the wrong way. You aren't a player controlling this digital nation from up high. You can't know everything that happens and how your choices will affect things before you make your decision. In a way, this isn't a nation simulation game but rather - intentionally or not (most likely not) - a way to simulate how you would feel as a leader of a nation. It's a feeling of helplessness and confusion. You want to do the right thing but so often what you choose has horrible consequences. Eventually you'll have to come to grips with how there is no perfect decision. You'll have to prioritize some things over other things. You can't have a great environment with a great economy without absolutely crippling tax rates.

Also remember that this game is in effect an MMO. It's not a game of the Sims or Civilization where there is always something to do. You are supposed to play every day for months or years to get the correct experience. Just like an RL politician, you can only resolve issues when they come up. It's a gradual process which means that you only get an issue every 6 hours at max speed. (You get more at the beginning to keep you engaged but that time gradually slows down until it hits the regular speed.) At this very moment, any nation is only eligible to get 60 - 75% of all issues so you'll have cycled through the pool within a few months. It was only recently that we got the 4 issues per day. Before then it was 2 per day.
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Werty Onlineed
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Founded: Jun 18, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Werty Onlineed » Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:49 am

Abhichandra wrote:If you let your current [nation] Cease to Exist, you will still have to wait 5 years until you can use the name again.

Edited for context.

Just posting here to clarify to The HoneyRose Commune that this isn't true. When your account ceases to exist because of inactivity, you can revive it upon your return. You do not have to wait for 5 years. That is false.

If your nation ceases to exist when its population is under 500 million, then the name can be reused in five years by any player. In this case, you may not revive your old nation because someone took your name.

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Leutria
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1522
Founded: Oct 29, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Leutria » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:36 am

Werty Onlineed wrote:
Abhichandra wrote:If you let your current [nation] Cease to Exist, you will still have to wait 5 years until you can use the name again.

Edited for context.

Just posting here to clarify to The HoneyRose Commune that this isn't true. When your account ceases to exist because of inactivity, you can revive it upon your return. You do not have to wait for 5 years. That is false.

If your nation ceases to exist when its population is under 500 million, then the name can be reused in five years by any player. In this case, you may not revive your old nation because someone took your name.

I think you are missing the point of Abhichandra's comment, which was to do with wanting a fresh start but the same nation name.

Anyway, as others have said it is not actually that hard to get your nation back on track, especially when it is a new nation. Just takes some patience.

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[violet]
Site Admin
 
Posts: 14243
Founded: Antiquity

Postby [violet] » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:00 pm

That was an interesting read, thanks.

I think they're fair points and common to new players.

A thing about NationStates is that issues very often offer a series of bad choices, so no matter what you pick, there's a negative side-effect you may not have expected. This is a turn-off to many new players, I'm sure, who want their nation to get better and better with every click, but it's also a core part of what NS is.

Some of the other points relate to technical limitations that we may overcome one day.

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The HoneyRose Commune
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 24
Founded: Apr 16, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The HoneyRose Commune » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:37 pm

[violet] wrote:That was an interesting read, thanks.

I think they're fair points and common to new players.

A thing about NationStates is that issues very often offer a series of bad choices, so no matter what you pick, there's a negative side-effect you may not have expected. This is a turn-off to many new players, I'm sure, who want their nation to get better and better with every click, but it's also a core part of what NS is.

Some of the other points relate to technical limitations that we may overcome one day.


Thank you for answering! In the past few weeks I have chilled out about it a bit and I'm starting to enjoy the game again. Thank you for taking the time to read it, means a lot!

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Socio Polor
Diplomat
 
Posts: 1000
Founded: Nov 28, 2015
New York Times Democracy

Postby Socio Polor » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:57 pm

The HoneyRose Commune wrote:
[violet] wrote:That was an interesting read, thanks.

I think they're fair points and common to new players.

A thing about NationStates is that issues very often offer a series of bad choices, so no matter what you pick, there's a negative side-effect you may not have expected. This is a turn-off to many new players, I'm sure, who want their nation to get better and better with every click, but it's also a core part of what NS is.

Some of the other points relate to technical limitations that we may overcome one day.


Thank you for answering! In the past few weeks I have chilled out about it a bit and I'm starting to enjoy the game again. Thank you for taking the time to read it, means a lot!

Yeah you're new to the game so it's best to settle and see all the things you can do on this site before deciding to leave. You can join the WA side of the community, the RP side, the Issues side, the R/D side and more.
"Man is nature. What we create is an extension of nature. God is nothing more than a symptom of an irrational fear of the unknown."
-Alvecia

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Omakhandia
Envoy
 
Posts: 229
Founded: Jun 05, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Omakhandia » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:26 pm

Drasnia wrote:You can't have a great environment with a great economy without absolutely crippling tax rates.


Au contraire...
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VoVoDoCo
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1467
Founded: Sep 07, 2017
Anarchy

Postby VoVoDoCo » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:21 pm

Omakhandia wrote:
Drasnia wrote:You can't have a great environment with a great economy without absolutely crippling tax rates.


Au contraire...

I just looked at your nation... I'm impressed. :clap:


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