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[Abortion Thread] (YET ANOTHER POLL!) Taking measure.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

What policies would you use to reduce abortion numbers?

Welfare Support for Single Mothers
481
17%
Free Pregnancy-Related Health Care
494
17%
Comprehensive Sex Education
604
21%
Free Contraception
499
17%
Monetary Incentives (Child Care, Tax Incentives, Kid-Related Healthcare, specify if needed)
375
13%
No Changes
47
2%
Procedure Ban (Not outlawing abortion itself, but specific procedures)
89
3%
Outright Ban (With exceptions or without)
281
10%
 
Total votes : 2870

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Godular
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New York Times Democracy

[Abortion Thread] (YET ANOTHER POLL!) Taking measure.

Postby Godular » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:09 pm

EDITED TO ADD: YET ANOTHER POLL!

IMPORTANT MESSAGE REGARDING NEW POLL: In light of the previous poll, and in keeping with a suggestion that I thought was pretty spiffy, I'm making this most recent questionnaire focus on specific measures that one might consider in order to reduce abortion numbers. Poll-takers can choose up to six options, so that those who might support a ban of some form can also express support for some of the other options.[/b]

CHANGELOG: Altered the double standard option to be more general.
CHANGELOG: PAGE 200 POLL INITIATED
CHANGELOG: PAGE 300 POLL INITIATED A TAD EARLY


Oh yeah... previous threads for reading displeasure:

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=415543 - If you had the power...
https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=388685 - pro choice or pro life / five points review


RESULTS OF THIRD POLL

HONEY: Encourage women to keep the pregnancy with incentives (specify if ya want) -- 120 votes, 22%
VINEGAR: Discourage women from getting an abortion by whatever means (specify if ya want) -- 73 votes, 13%
BOTH: Incentives AND Inquisitions! (For those who have to be complicated) -- 104 votes, 19%
NEITHER: I dun' see nuffin' wrong with how it is now. (And there's nothing wrong with that... I think) -- 164 votes, 30%
SHUT UP: No, YOU shut up. -- 85 votes, 16%


RESULTS OF SECOND POLL (Only including options 1-4, so the percentages will look odd):

In a conflict of rights between a woman and a zygote/fetus/etc, who do you side with?

The Woman (Pro-Choice): 359 (37%)
The Unborn (Pro-Life): 322 (33%)
HEY! What About The Man? (I dun’ like double standards!): 90 (9%)
I Wish There Wasn’t A Conflict At All (fix other stuff first, then we can talk): 100 (10%)
Last edited by Godular on Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:11 pm, edited 20 times in total.
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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:19 pm

Something that always bugs me is that too often the same people who are 'pro-life' also support measures that would actually reduce teen pregnancy rates and abortion.
Last edited by Genivaria on Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:21 pm

And now, let the insanity begin.

Abortion is really only justifiable if the mother's life or the child's life are in danger, but the government should not ban abortion because that won't fix the problem.
"An intelligent heart acquires knowledge, and the ear of the wise seeks knowledge." Proverbs 18:15

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Auze
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Postby Auze » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:23 pm

New thread smell. I've learned from last time, and this I propose that we cover the surfaces with flame resistant foil.
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The South Falls
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Postby The South Falls » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:23 pm

Geneviev wrote:And now, let the insanity begin.

Abortion is really only justifiable if the mother's life or the child's life are in danger, but the government should not ban abortion because that won't fix the problem.

So you're morally against it, but legally for it?

I'm in it full-access.
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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:27 pm

The South Falls wrote:
Geneviev wrote:And now, let the insanity begin.

Abortion is really only justifiable if the mother's life or the child's life are in danger, but the government should not ban abortion because that won't fix the problem.

So you're morally against it, but legally for it?

I'm in it full-access.

Yeah, pretty much.
"An intelligent heart acquires knowledge, and the ear of the wise seeks knowledge." Proverbs 18:15

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Telconi
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Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:31 pm

Only permitted in such a situation ad to cause a net preservation of life. Er go, when termination causes a higher number of living people than attempting to carry the pregnancy.
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PRO:
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-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
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ANTI:
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-Sexism
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-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
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"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Sovaal
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Ex-Nation

Postby Sovaal » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:44 pm

I'm still pretty shaky on this subject tbh, tho if I had to pick whenever the fetus can survive outside of the mother, or just a few weeks before so.
Most of the time I have no idea what the hell I'm doing or talking about.

”Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe.
No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is
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Winston Churchill, 1947.

"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

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Baalkistann
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Ex-Nation

Postby Baalkistann » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:44 pm

To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:46 pm

Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

How does it not make sense?
Do men not have that right?
General Sherman did nothing wrong, fact.
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Put this in your sig if you recognize the geopolitical struggle of our times

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Neutraligon
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Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:46 pm

Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

So long as I can take your organs and enslave you in turn.
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Telconi
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Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:52 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

So long as I can take your organs and enslave you in turn.


Or not.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Sovaal
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Posts: 13696
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Sovaal » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:52 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

So long as I can take your organs and enslave you in turn.

I call the gall bladder!
Most of the time I have no idea what the hell I'm doing or talking about.

”Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe.
No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is
the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." -
Winston Churchill, 1947.

"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

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Baalkistann
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Ex-Nation

Postby Baalkistann » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:54 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

So long as I can take your organs and enslave you in turn.


You can do whatever you want with my organs when I’m dead just like they do with the kids they abort

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New haven america
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby New haven america » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:01 pm

Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

What century do you live in?
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The Anglo-American Commonwealth
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Anglo-American Commonwealth » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:07 pm

Full access, of course.
Baalkistann wrote:The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

Why?
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Dogmeat
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Dogmeat » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:17 pm

Geneviev wrote:And now, let the insanity begin.

Abortion is really only justifiable if the mother's life or the child's life are in danger, but the government should not ban abortion because that won't fix the problem.

Very well. The mothers life is always in danger. Pregnancy carries with it an increased risk of ischemic stroke and intracerebral hemorrhage. Among many other potentially fatal complications, and lifelong deterioration of health.
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Hakons
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Postby Hakons » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:54 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

So long as I can take your organs and enslave you in turn.


>Pretending a fetus is like an organ
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Dogmeat
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Dogmeat » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:58 pm

Hakons wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:So long as I can take your organs and enslave you in turn.


>Pretending a fetus is like an organ

Did they really though?
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Geneviev
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Founded: Mar 03, 2018
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Geneviev » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:10 pm

New haven america wrote:
Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

What century do you live in?

The 21st, last I checked. And you must be in another century.
Last edited by Geneviev on Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"An intelligent heart acquires knowledge, and the ear of the wise seeks knowledge." Proverbs 18:15

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Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft
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Ex-Nation

Postby Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:39 pm

Given that multiple scientific studies suggest that a fetus becomes conscious at 24-30 weeks, I'd set the limit of abortions at 24 weeks (which is also the limit of viability, so countries such as the United States and the UK can leave the limit where it is) - the vast majority of abortions (especially elective abortions) happen before 12 weeks, let alone 24, though.

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Senkaku
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Posts: 18084
Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Senkaku » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:40 pm

Baalkistann wrote:The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

Does "men have the right to do what they want with their bodies" make sense as a proposition?
Instagay

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The South Falls
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby The South Falls » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:42 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Baalkistann wrote:The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

Does "men have the right to do what they want with their bodies" make sense as a proposition?

No one has the right to do anything with their bodies. They belong to the state now.
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


Political Compass Results:

Economic: -5.5
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51
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Katganistan
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Katganistan » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:00 pm

I would prefer there also be comprehensive sex ed and access to low-cost/free contraception and or/the stigma is greatly reduced for being forced to use social welfare programs, to greatly reduce unintended pregnancy, but -- generally I am for abortion up until the fetus could reasonably be able to survive outside the womb, barring medical necessity.

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The South Falls
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Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The South Falls » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:36 pm

Let's remember, all, that the Catholic church is against contraception and abortion. It doesn't make sense.
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


Political Compass Results:

Economic: -5.5
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51
I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that.

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