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[Abortion Thread] (YET ANOTHER POLL!) Honey or Vinegar?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Would you use honey or vinegar to address your issues with abortion?

HONEY: Encourage women to keep the pregnancy with incentives (specify if ya want)
88
25%
VINEGAR: Discourage women from getting an abortion by whatever means (specify if ya want)
46
13%
BOTH: Incentives AND Inquisitions! (For those who have to be complicated)
63
18%
NEITHER: I dun' see nuffin' wrong with how it is now. (And there's nothing wrong with that... I think)
95
27%
SHUT UP: No, YOU shut up.
62
18%
 
Total votes : 354

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Godular
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Founded: Sep 09, 2004
New York Times Democracy

[Abortion Thread] (YET ANOTHER POLL!) Honey or Vinegar?

Postby Godular » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:09 pm

EDITED TO ADD: YET ANOTHER POLL!

IMPORTANT MESSAGE REGARDING NEW POLL: This is to determine whether people think it's better to achieve their objectives with honey or vinegar. I think we can all agree that we would like to see the number of abortions reduced, but HOW? Would you seek to encourage women to keep the pregnancy by providing incentives? Would you slap women with the death penalty for trying to get an abortion? A little bit of both? A little bit of neither? A little bit of 'fuck off with these fucking polls you hoser'?

CHANGELOG: Altered the double standard option to be more general.
CHANGELOG: PAGE 200 POLL INITIATED


To mods: I’m hoping to keep this separate from the other currently open thread on abortion and disabilities, as that seems as a specific sub-argument for the greater issue.

Oh yeah... previous threads for reading displeasure:

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=415543 - If you had the power...
https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=388685 - pro choice or pro life / five points review


RESULTS OF PREVIOUS POLL (Only including options 1-4, so the percentages will look odd):

In a conflict of rights between a woman and a zygote/fetus/etc, who do you side with?

The Woman (Pro-Choice): 359 (37%)
The Unborn (Pro-Life): 322 (33%)
HEY! What About The Man? (I dun’ like double standards!): 90 (9%)
I Wish There Wasn’t A Conflict At All (fix other stuff first, then we can talk): 100 (10%)
Last edited by Godular on Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:23 pm, edited 16 times in total.
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Genivaria
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby Genivaria » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:19 pm

Something that always bugs me is that too often the same people who are 'pro-life' also support measures that would actually reduce teen pregnancy rates and abortion.
Last edited by Genivaria on Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:21 pm

And now, let the insanity begin.

Abortion is really only justifiable if the mother's life or the child's life are in danger, but the government should not ban abortion because that won't fix the problem.
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Auze
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Postby Auze » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:23 pm

New thread smell. I've learned from last time, and this I propose that we cover the surfaces with flame resistant foil.
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The South Falls
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Postby The South Falls » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:23 pm

Geneviev wrote:And now, let the insanity begin.

Abortion is really only justifiable if the mother's life or the child's life are in danger, but the government should not ban abortion because that won't fix the problem.

So you're morally against it, but legally for it?

I'm in it full-access.
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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:27 pm

The South Falls wrote:
Geneviev wrote:And now, let the insanity begin.

Abortion is really only justifiable if the mother's life or the child's life are in danger, but the government should not ban abortion because that won't fix the problem.

So you're morally against it, but legally for it?

I'm in it full-access.

Yeah, pretty much.
Give music to dementia patients
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Telconi
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:31 pm

Only permitted in such a situation ad to cause a net preservation of life. Er go, when termination causes a higher number of living people than attempting to carry the pregnancy.
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ANTI:
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Sovaal
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Ex-Nation

Postby Sovaal » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:44 pm

I'm still pretty shaky on this subject tbh, tho if I had to pick whenever the fetus can survive outside of the mother, or just a few weeks before so.

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Baalkistann
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Baalkistann » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:44 pm

To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

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Genivaria
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby Genivaria » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:46 pm

Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

How does it not make sense?
Do men not have that right?
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Neutraligon
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:46 pm

Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

So long as I can take your organs and enslave you in turn.
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Telconi
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:52 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

So long as I can take your organs and enslave you in turn.


Or not.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Sovaal
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Ex-Nation

Postby Sovaal » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:52 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

So long as I can take your organs and enslave you in turn.

I call the gall bladder!

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"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

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Baalkistann
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Baalkistann » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:54 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

So long as I can take your organs and enslave you in turn.


You can do whatever you want with my organs when I’m dead just like they do with the kids they abort

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New haven america
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby New haven america » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:01 pm

Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

What century do you live in?
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The Anglo-American Commonwealth
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Anglo-American Commonwealth » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:07 pm

Full access, of course.
Baalkistann wrote:The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

Why?
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Dogmeat
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Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Dogmeat » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:17 pm

Geneviev wrote:And now, let the insanity begin.

Abortion is really only justifiable if the mother's life or the child's life are in danger, but the government should not ban abortion because that won't fix the problem.

Very well. The mothers life is always in danger. Pregnancy carries with it an increased risk of ischemic stroke and intracerebral hemorrhage. Among many other potentially fatal complications, and lifelong deterioration of health.

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Hakons
Senator
 
Posts: 4514
Founded: Jul 14, 2015
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Hakons » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:54 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

So long as I can take your organs and enslave you in turn.


>Pretending a fetus is like an organ
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Dogmeat
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Dogmeat » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:58 pm

Hakons wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:So long as I can take your organs and enslave you in turn.


>Pretending a fetus is like an organ

Did they really though?

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Geneviev
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Geneviev » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:10 pm

New haven america wrote:
Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

What century do you live in?

The 21st, last I checked. And you must be in another century.
Last edited by Geneviev on Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Give music to dementia patients
Bring music education back to schools
"When words fail, music speaks." -Shakespeare
"Music expresses feeling and thought, without language; it was below and before speech, and it is above and beyond all words." -Robert G. Ingersoll
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Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft
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Postby Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:39 pm

Given that multiple scientific studies suggest that a fetus becomes conscious at 24-30 weeks, I'd set the limit of abortions at 24 weeks (which is also the limit of viability, so countries such as the United States and the UK can leave the limit where it is) - the vast majority of abortions (especially elective abortions) happen before 12 weeks, let alone 24, though.

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Senkaku
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Senkaku » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:40 pm

Baalkistann wrote:The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

Does "men have the right to do what they want with their bodies" make sense as a proposition?
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The South Falls
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby The South Falls » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:42 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Baalkistann wrote:The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

Does "men have the right to do what they want with their bodies" make sense as a proposition?

No one has the right to do anything with their bodies. They belong to the state now.
This is an MT or PMT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.
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Political Compass Results:

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Katganistan
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Katganistan » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:00 pm

I would prefer there also be comprehensive sex ed and access to low-cost/free contraception and or/the stigma is greatly reduced for being forced to use social welfare programs, to greatly reduce unintended pregnancy, but -- generally I am for abortion up until the fetus could reasonably be able to survive outside the womb, barring medical necessity.

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The South Falls
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby The South Falls » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:36 pm

Let's remember, all, that the Catholic church is against contraception and abortion. It doesn't make sense.
This is an MT or PMT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.
Satsuki is in fact the edgiest I could get without breaking site rules.
You have seen a wild South Fallus Fallusi Texaso nativa. Your Friendly Neighborhood Black Kid. Social Democrat,
sometimes breaks rules. Sorry! I've got myself a nice situation with tea, so I'm doing good there.

Political Compass Results:

Economic: -6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.28

I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that. Yes, we're pretty much a different Australia.

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