Christian Discussion Thread XI: Anicetus’ Revenge

[Sundiata]

Furthermore, I think that most of us would have gleefully killed him or been willing to kill him.

Ease up there, Sunny.

It's no exaggeration.

[Sundiata]

The prayer I've done recently put into perspective what motivated the murder of Jesus Christ.

When things aren't going your way it's tempting to want a target for that aggression, an outlet. It's easy to take all of that anger and hate you feel about your life and just bully someone with it. That's what happened to Jesus Christ, he was an easy target for hateful people.

The people who persecuted him, who threw the book at him without mercy just wanted an easy target. That's why they accused him of crime, slandered him to no end, and finally brutalized him.

Unfortunately, these hateful people were oppressed themselves. They felt weak. To feel a sense of control, if only for a moment, they tortured an innocent man to death.

All it takes is hatred in your heart to be capable of killing your Messiah, killing your best friend. Our Messiah was a sitting duck. And the worst part about it is that we're not any better than these people.

Even as Christians, we're no better than the people who willingly tortured our Lord to death.

Has anyone ever read "The Imitation of Christ" by Thomas a Kempis? After my most recent confession, pages of that book have a different impact.

[The Archregimancy]

I’d say yes. Checkmate.

No u.

So I imagine that, from an epistemological perspective, the three of you would argue that dialectical materialism is an inadequate model for addressing antidisestablishmentarianism in the post-medieval Catholic episcopate?

[Kowani]

No u.

So I imagine that, from an epistemological perspective, the three of you would argue that dialectical materialism is an inadequate model for addressing antidisestablishmentarianism in the post-medieval Catholic episcopate?

i am proud of myself for understanding all of these words

Are countries where abortion is illegal statistically more peaceful then nations where it is legal?

There's...not a lot of those countries remaining, but the correlation between abortion being legal and countries being violent seems a bit...slim?

Blanket illegality, no, but abortion being illegal under a large variety of circumstances is still pretty widespread (though enforcement varies by country)

Blue: Legal on request
Green: Risk to woman's life, to her health*, rape*, fetal impairment*, or socioeconomic factors
Yellow: Risk to woman's life, to her health*, rape, or fetal impairment
Pink: Risk to woman's life, to her health*, or fetal impairment
Brown: Risk to woman's life*, to her health*, or rape
Orange: Risk to woman's life or to her health
Red: Risk to woman's life
Black: Illegal with no exceptions

[Sundiata]

No u.

So I imagine that, from an epistemological perspective, the three of you would argue that dialectical materialism is an inadequate model for addressing antidisestablishmentarianism in the post-medieval Catholic episcopate?

Largely yes, to be perfectly honest. There is so much to say about this satirical point as it relates to the errors of Marxian analysis.

[Luminesa]

So I imagine that, from an epistemological perspective, the three of you would argue that dialectical materialism is an inadequate model for addressing antidisestablishmentarianism in the post-medieval Catholic episcopate?

i am proud of myself for understanding all of these words

There's...not a lot of those countries remaining, but the correlation between abortion being legal and countries being violent seems a bit...slim?

Blanket illegality, no, but abortion being illegal under a large variety of circumstances is still pretty widespread (though enforcement varies by country)

Blue: Legal on request
Green: Risk to woman's life, to her health*, rape*, fetal impairment*, or socioeconomic factors
Yellow: Risk to woman's life, to her health*, rape, or fetal impairment
Pink: Risk to woman's life, to her health*, or fetal impairment
Brown: Risk to woman's life*, to her health*, or rape
Orange: Risk to woman's life or to her health
Red: Risk to woman's life
Black: Illegal with no exceptions

I read “antidisestablishmentarianism” and the rest of that post became alphabet soup, not gonna lie. It doesn’t help that it’s 3 AM and I need to sleep.

[Sundiata]

In my opinion, the marital sacrament is the most dazzling echo of God's love. It's long past emotion or feeling. Yes, the couple matters but there is a larger force at work when two people marry in the church.

You're not marrying at a beach or a drive-in. It's not by pure chance. To marry in the church is to be brought together by God's purposes, that's true love. Not fleeting emotion or passion.

In marriage, God shares his way with two people.

"For as a young man marries a virgin, your builder shall marry you. And as a bridegroom rejoices in his bride so shall your God rejoice in you." - Isaiah 62:5

[Lost Memories]

Moving away from the talk about the past, this opinion piece about the recent time looked sombre.

With John F. Kennedy in 1960, Catholic America achieved a long-sought victory and lost something in return.

Perhaps Catholics have earned the right to no distinction,
the privilege of blending seamlessly into the social and political landscape of the United States,
the freedom of having no special moral obligations. And what a wide, barren, featureless liberty it is.

The past is full of examples of hate and lies against catholicism, and the present isn't any better. There are all sorts of red flags.
But maybe some have grown to understand forgiveness to mean the same as forgetfulness, or blissful ignorance.

[Sundiata]

Moving away from the talk about the past, this opinion piece about the recent time looked sombre.

This resonated.

"the pious Catholics who helped usher in the New Deal,“In a way that particularly confounded many liberal and left commentators, these men and women could be deeply Catholic, active, even militant, trade unionists, and reject much of secular, liberal thought, while they simultaneously supported core economic aspects of New Deal policy.”

[Sundiata]

But anyway, the marital sacrament is very deserving of our attention. I think that its proper promotion has the capacity to grow through our world like a mustard seed.

[The Marlborough]

In regards to the whole Irish homes for unwed mothers and illegitimate children debate, UMN and Senkaku are correct in that there are at times over defensiveness from Catholics in regards to such scandals. However, it is also somewhat understandable at the same time given how rampant anti-Catholicism is, even subconsciously, within places such as the USA, the UK, etc. That said, that does not justify some of the lengths some Catholics can go to trying to justify or obscure genuine concerns or instances of systematic abuse within the Church. That the RCC may be held to a different standard than other institutions with similar scandals is more of a call to bring those institutions to account instead of trying to handwave away those same abuses within the RCC.

Further, that article said that some of those homes were operated by local health authorities and not the Church with no mention that their mortality rates were better which goes to show that it's not just the RCC that should be criticized here. What really caught my eye was this line however.

In the 1930s and 1940s, over 40% of children in the homes died before their first birthday, the commission found. But it found little evidence that politicians or the public were concerned about the children, despite the "appalling level of infant mortality".

Which seems to imply that many people in Ireland actually did know about it but just didn't care. Which, to be frank, is appalling and an indictment of Irish society at the time as a whole.

[The Marlborough]

But anyway, the marital sacrament is very deserving of our attention. I think that its proper promotion has the capacity to grow through our world like a mustard seed.

Not sure mustard seeds is the imagery I'd use for marriage. Speaking as someone who lives in a province occupied by the mustard field menace, I can tell you it's not a stunning sight.

[The Marlborough]

Actually I would say that something the RCC should really apologize for is the residential schools in Canada which Pope Francis has also refused to do. Especially considering he has apologized for other abuses that occurred in the past.

[Sundiata]

But anyway, the marital sacrament is very deserving of our attention. I think that its proper promotion has the capacity to grow through our world like a mustard seed.

Not sure mustard seeds is the imagery I'd use for marriage. Speaking as someone who lives in a province occupied by the mustard field menace, I can tell you it's not a stunning sight.

The metaphor is not my own.

[Lost Memories]

I think that religiously speaking, it would make sense for a christian to understand the united states of america to be like the pagan roman empire.
(the comparison could go further, to also include the predation on the weak, the oligarchical power and abuse, the cults of personality, but that's a different matter)

If the usa was ever a christian nation, that's something of the past, or if not completely in the past, something moving fast in the past.
The protestant christianity in the west is currently reverting back to tribal paganism. Both with the new protestants directly morphing into pagans, and the historical protestants losing members to pagan cults. Irreligion is in most cases just the popular cover for individual and personal cults. It's not a complete transition yet, maybe the full reversion to paganism won't be complete in our lifetimes.
Catholicism is also getting hit in the the current religiously decaying american environment, but to a lesser degree.

Europe has also been in need to get re-evangelized since quite some time.

The west has been trying to go back to tribal paganism ever since the enlightement, it isn't really a secret. It isn't a recent development, it's just that the social conformism about declaring to be christian without really believing, just for the social circle and personal opportunities which comes with it, has started to break up only during the sexual revolution in the 60s 70s.


Looking into anti-catholicism inside the american social spaces, really makes bare a lot about american culture.
Why is the internet abuzz with false claims of a ‘Vatican blackout’?
A live example of the kind of people involved with those conspiracies
Kids don't know how cameras work with auto-exposure to light. Kids and manchildren alike.
Lin Wood announced to Parler that the 10 Days of Darkneas is here
What a sorry state the US is in. (at least some sanity isn't all lost yet)
Two interesting comments from that sad display.

What is with the far right and an obsession with everyone else being pedophiles? Sounds like projection to me, especially since I was reading that Parler had to stop telling their users to post illegal pornography on multiple occasions.

It's kind of just the most vile thing you can accuse the other side of. Plus it makes for great marketing if you keep repeating that you are doing all this shit to "save the children". I mean who doesn't want to help children? It's a great tool to recruit people who haven't fallen for the cult yet.

Basically means that anyone who's against you is evil. Why don't you listen to Q? Do you want the pedophiles to win?

If only it was only the far right playing that shame card. That's a tool liked by any american political color.
why do pagans dislike catholicism so much?
The only not delusional or historically ignorant answer from there:

Because of a weird victim complex, that doesn't have any real ground. If you want to be fair, even celtic tribes destroyed each others temples in war and ravished each others gods whenever they wanted to. It's not like pagans had a HUGE religious tolerance for each other - look at what the romans or the incas did to the weaker cultures in their regions, religion was clearly a tool of power to them.

Why is there such a big anti-catholicism movement in Adventism?



All in all, it's comforting in a weird way, to know that nothing is ever new under the sun.
The pagan romans also used to say all sort of weird and false things about early christians.
A custom which the very "rational" enlightement thinkers revived with much zeal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_flat_earth

The pagan roman empire stopped being pagan, and became christian, so will any future pagan empire, be it the pagan american empire, the pagan european empire, or any other future pagan resurgence.

[Salus Maior]

Actually I would say that something the RCC should really apologize for is the residential schools in Canada which Pope Francis has also refused to do. Especially considering he has apologized for other abuses that occurred in the past.

I don't really see the point in apologizing for every bad thing done. It's not as if making an official apology is going to actually change what happed, and the Catholic Church doesn't do things like that anymore anyway.

[Suriyanakhon]

The pagan roman empire stopped being pagan, and became christian, so will any future pagan empire, be it the pagan american empire, the pagan european empire, or any other future pagan resurgence.

That seems like a really weird prediction when non-Christians still exist.

[Punished UMN]

Actually I would say that something the RCC should really apologize for is the residential schools in Canada which Pope Francis has also refused to do. Especially considering he has apologized for other abuses that occurred in the past.

I don't really see the point in apologizing for every bad thing done. It's not as if making an official apology is going to actually change what happed, and the Catholic Church doesn't do things like that anymore anyway.

It's not that it will change anything, but it can go towards rebuilding trust and reconciliation.

[Kowani]

. Irreligion is in most cases just the popular cover for individual and personal cults.

Is it really so hard to believe that some people just don’t have a religion

[Punished UMN]

. Irreligion is in most cases just the popular cover for individual and personal cults.

Is it really so hard to believe that some people just don’t have a religion

It's not, and I think that LM is overstating his case, but I do think it's true that many irreligious people do end up creating some kind of replacement for religion, whether that be political ideology, an abstract code, or even a personality cult, and that many of these things are treated by their followers as holy in the sense of religious faith.

[Nakena]

The protestant christianity in the west is currently reverting back to tribal paganism. Both with the new protestants directly morphing into pagans, and the historical protestants losing members to pagan cults. Irreligion is in most cases just the popular cover for individual and personal cults.

How exactly it is reverting back to paganism?

The west has been trying to go back to tribal paganism ever since the enlightement, it isn't really a secret. It isn't a recent development, it's just that the social conformism about declaring to be christian without really believing, just for the social circle and personal opportunities which comes with it, has started to break up only during the sexual revolution in the 60s 70s.

(X) for doubt.

[Kowani]

Is it really so hard to believe that some people just don’t have a religion

It's not, and I think that LM is overstating his case, but I do think it's true that many irreligious people do end up creating some kind of replacement for religion, whether that be political ideology, an abstract code, or even a personality cult, and that many of these things are treated by their followers as holy in the sense of religious faith.

I mean, sure? But it’s not like those things exist as a replacement for religion, it’s just human psychology.
There are, after all, many religious people who fall into the same trap (if you can call it that)
Maybe on a social level, where those things provide the group identity that religion used to?
That might be a more accurate claim, I think

[Washington Resistance Army]

The pagan roman empire stopped being pagan, and became christian, so will any future pagan empire, be it the pagan american empire, the pagan european empire, or any other future pagan resurgence.

That seems like a really weird prediction when non-Christians still exist.

It's doubly bizarre because even after 2,000 years the majority of humanity is still not Christian, and paganism is seeing a massive resurgence and barring a Christian theocracy I don't see that changing in the west.

[Suriyanakhon]

It's not, and I think that LM is overstating his case, but I do think it's true that many irreligious people do end up creating some kind of replacement for religion, whether that be political ideology, an abstract code, or even a personality cult, and that many of these things are treated by their followers as holy in the sense of religious faith.

I mean, sure? But it’s not like those things exist as a replacement for religion, it’s just human psychology.
There are, after all, many religious people who fall into the same trap (if you can call it that)
Maybe on a social level, where those things provide the group identity that religion used to?
That might be a more accurate claim, I think

*looks at what happened at the Capitol a few days ago*

Very much so.

[Punished UMN]

It's not, and I think that LM is overstating his case, but I do think it's true that many irreligious people do end up creating some kind of replacement for religion, whether that be political ideology, an abstract code, or even a personality cult, and that many of these things are treated by their followers as holy in the sense of religious faith.

I mean, sure? But it’s not like those things exist as a replacement for religion, it’s just human psychology.
There are, after all, many religious people who fall into the same trap (if you can call it that)
Maybe on a social level, where those things provide the group identity that religion used to?
That might be a more accurate claim, I think

Yeah, I think that's probably more accurate.