Should Charges for Animal Cruelty be Tougher?

[Ifreann]

What would that accomplish?

Deter others from doing something similar

Harsh punishments don't deter people from committing crimes, especially not adolescents.

[The Industries2]

No, not only should they not be tougher but they should be entirely removed. Animals are NOT people. And to restrict the rights of your voting populace for the sake of non sentient critters is frankly moronic. We only do it out of a wrong and moronic sense of sentimentality. And that is not a good reason to do anything. Animal rights should instead be rolled back and entirely removed so that beasts can once again take their rightful place as property.

PS. This does not mean I condone killing other peoples pets or livestock. That's property damage. And property damage should be dealt with with cruelty and wrath.
PPS. I am also not against conservation. Maintaining a functioning ecosystem is in the higher interest of all humans not dying horribly so concessions have to be made to that. Just as long as we remember we are doing it for humans sake and NOT for natures sake. It's a keep your slave alive and healthy so that it can keep working your field efficiently sort of deal.

what is wrong with you?

[Nobel Hobos 2]

I mean, to call it "murder" when regarding the eggs really walks on the thin line of hypocrisy for someone I assume is a pro-choicer. Uhh if you mean the broken heart thing is murder, that's an unintended consequence these boys probably didn't know. I still think these were some asshole kids who deserve a slap on the wrist but nothing further.

Well they know now, so I'd be looking for signs of contrition before letting them go with a "slap on the wrist".

I wouldn't prescribe jail in any case, that will just expose them to worse criminals among whom they might find role models.

A fine isn't all that appropriate either, as I expect their parents would pay it for them.

I think a couple of weeks community service would be the appropriate way to take it out of their hides.

[Andsed]

Not necessarily murder. Animals are not people so I do think crimes against them should be punished to a lesser extent. For adults I would say fines or jail time(depending on how severe the act was) works while minors should be given community service.

[The Emerald Legion]

Said by someone who's clearly never lived in the country or met animals.

Your assumption is as false as your edginess.

It's as true as the fact that animals are not your friend.

Also, a swan is literally just a goose but pretty. The only reason this is a thing is because British royalty are the only ones allowed to eat swan because the UK is a backwards country with no concept of freedom.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Your assumption is as false as your edginess.

It's as true as the fact that animals are not your friend.

Also, a swan is literally just a goose but pretty. The only reason this is a thing is because British royalty are the only ones allowed to eat swan because the UK is a backwards country with no concept of freedom.

If that's a joke, you should use a smilie.

Geese have a very lovable appearance, not pretty exactly, but quite endearing imo. The ethos of being able to shoot anything unless it's so rare as to be listed Endangered, has really got to go from America. The country is over-run with feral animals, they should be the only valid targets.

[Ifreann]

Your assumption is as false as your edginess.

It's as true as the fact that animals are not your friend.

Of course they're not. Animals are just animals. I have no particular relationship with them in general. So it is just silly to call them my enemies. The kind of silliness I would expect from a teenager who think he's very edgy.

[Kustonia]

https://www.smalljoys.tv/mother-swan-broken-heart/

A swan in Manchester died of a apparent broken heart after several teens destroyed her nest causing her partner to leave her. Swans often mate for life. Who raised such monsters that they would do something so awful? I hope whoever did this is caught and charged to the fullest extent of the law possible.

I often wonder if making animal cruelty charges a felony is enough to make heartbreaking stories like this stop. Perhaps if these teens were charged with murder it would make others think twice about doing something similar and make people have more respect and care for other creatures.

What do you think NSG?

People are not taught to respect nature anymore. The teens probably didn't know the harm they caused to another living creature, and that's a symptom of the current conflict between the Modern World vs. Nature.

Animal cruelty cannot go unpunished, but punishment alone will cause resentment. We need a thorough anti-modern and anti-liberal education to teach the next generation about how to accept discipline and to show respect instead of pursuing unlimited freedom and every sadistic, hedonistic pleasure known to man.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

https://www.smalljoys.tv/mother-swan-broken-heart/

A swan in Manchester died of a apparent broken heart after several teens destroyed her nest causing her partner to leave her. Swans often mate for life. Who raised such monsters that they would do something so awful? I hope whoever did this is caught and charged to the fullest extent of the law possible.

I often wonder if making animal cruelty charges a felony is enough to make heartbreaking stories like this stop. Perhaps if these teens were charged with murder it would make others think twice about doing something similar and make people have more respect and care for other creatures.

What do you think NSG?

People are not taught to respect nature anymore. The teens probably didn't know the harm they caused to another living creature, and that's a symptom of the current conflict between the Modern World vs. Nature.

Animal cruelty cannot go unpunished, but punishment alone will cause resentment. We need a thorough anti-modern and anti-liberal education to teach the next generation about how to accept discipline and to show respect instead of pursuing unlimited freedom and every sadistic, hedonistic pleasure known to man.

Modernism and liberalism would both favor being kind to wild animals.
It's the authoritarian and vengeful temperament which promotes the opposite.

I heard that after seeing the movie Finding Nemo, some kids refused to eat fish. How does that strike you?

[Ifreann]

https://www.smalljoys.tv/mother-swan-broken-heart/

A swan in Manchester died of a apparent broken heart after several teens destroyed her nest causing her partner to leave her. Swans often mate for life. Who raised such monsters that they would do something so awful? I hope whoever did this is caught and charged to the fullest extent of the law possible.

I often wonder if making animal cruelty charges a felony is enough to make heartbreaking stories like this stop. Perhaps if these teens were charged with murder it would make others think twice about doing something similar and make people have more respect and care for other creatures.

What do you think NSG?

People are not taught to respect nature anymore. The teens probably didn't know the harm they caused to another living creature, and that's a symptom of the current conflict between the Modern World vs. Nature.

Animal cruelty cannot go unpunished, but punishment alone will cause resentment. We need a thorough anti-modern and anti-liberal education to teach the next generation about how to accept discipline and to show respect instead of pursuing unlimited freedom and every sadistic, hedonistic pleasure known to man.

So you want us to abandon the modernist thinking that criminalises animal cruelty and return to the traditional practice of eating swans?

[Stellar Colonies]

If you want to reduce crime by imposing harsher punishments then you don't agree, to any extent, that harsher punishments do not reduce crime.

Hoe about we use the anti-abortion tactics ? If people e.g. want to buy meat they would first have to watch a video of the life the animal had and it being slaughtered.
Preferably with sound.

What, you mean this?

[Purple Rats]

I have mixed feelings about this situation / thread. Part of me is glad that there are people who are angry about what happened with the swan, cause it shows they care.
On the other hand, every time when I see something similar happening somewhere and people react to these, it's always some "beautiful animal". Swans are viewed as gorgeous birds (which they are), and therefor people feel more empathy towards them. Same way how people feel about pets, or are sad because tigers being hunted or being in circus, while there are happening lot of animal cruelty (and I am not even talking about livestock animals) towards other animals as well, and people just think "what a sicko" for a sec and then moving on with their lives. (there was one thread about some youtuber, true, but I am speaking more general not NS)

Animal cruelty is always terrible, and always wrong, no matter what kind of an animal is that.

And for the ones who ask "Why should I care about animals", I could ask the same "why should we care about humans then?"

[Ors Might]

Eh, while it’s certainly not a good thing, in regards to animal cruelty, rehabilitation and therapy is probably the way to go, especially when the abusers are adolescents.

It’s horrible for the swan but retribution really doesn’t achieve much beyond personal satisfaction for folks.

[Middle Barael]

What do you propose?

I’d impose jail (adults) or correctional time (teens) depending on the severity of the animal abuse and the circumstances by which it happened. Community service is another one. But not just any type, something quite time consuming and physically taxing, and expunging of records can be done upon completion. You don’t necessarily want to ruin a teenager’s life, but rather make them aware that actions have very real consequences.

I completely agree. I do however believe that they should not be in jail for too long, more like a week or two, followed by community service, as we only want to teach them a lesson, not ruin their lives. If they are a serial animal abuser or serial animal murderer, then it is fine to keep them in jail for a while.

[San Lumen]

I’d impose jail (adults) or correctional time (teens) depending on the severity of the animal abuse and the circumstances by which it happened. Community service is another one. But not just any type, something quite time consuming and physically taxing, and expunging of records can be done upon completion. You don’t necessarily want to ruin a teenager’s life, but rather make them aware that actions have very real consequences.

I completely agree. I do however believe that they should not be in jail for too long, more like a week or two, followed by community service, as we only want to teach them a lesson, not ruin their lives. If they are a serial animal abuser or serial animal murderer, then it is fine to keep them in jail for a while.

That seems reasonable

[Katganistan]

And they deserve to be prosecuted to the fullest extent possible and should face jail time

That's a little too far, maybe a fine. I don't think a few kids lives should be ruined because of this, it's literally the epitome of "boys being boys." At the end of the day, I would say the only reason this probably happened is because kids are bored under the quarantine.

But if a bear in whose habitat you built your home ate your kid, you'd be all for killing it dead.
So why should teens who have better cognitive skills than a bear not face more than a slap on the wrist for killing a nest full of swans when they didn't even have the excuse of being hungry for cygnets?

I have mixed feelings about this situation / thread. Part of me is glad that there are people who are angry about what happened with the swan, cause it shows they care.
On the other hand, every time when I see something similar happening somewhere and people react to these, it's always some "beautiful animal". Swans are viewed as gorgeous birds (which they are), and therefor people feel more empathy towards them. Same way how people feel about pets, or are sad because tigers being hunted or being in circus, while there are happening lot of animal cruelty (and I am not even talking about livestock animals) towards other animals as well, and people just think "what a sicko" for a sec and then moving on with their lives. (there was one thread about some youtuber, true, but I am speaking more general not NS)

Animal cruelty is always terrible, and always wrong, no matter what kind of an animal is that.

And for the ones who ask "Why should I care about animals", I could ask the same "why should we care about humans then?"

I'd be just as dismayed about someone setting a pig or rat on fire.

[Salus Maior]

I mean, sure, they should get in some deep trouble and maybe a pretty significant fine/community service to straighten them out but it is just a bird.

Birds die all the time, it's nature. In this case it wasn't, but I don't know how much of a difference that really makes.

[Salus Maior]

And for the ones who ask "Why should I care about animals", I could ask the same "why should we care about humans then?"

Because "not caring about humans" means you're a sociopath and it doesn't work very well in human society.

Which, mind, is what enables you to live as you do.

[San Lumen]

I mean, sure, they should get in some deep trouble and maybe a pretty significant fine/community service to straighten them out but it is just a bird.

Birds die all the time, it's nature. In this case it wasn't, but I don't know how much of a difference that really makes.

Just a bird implies they are less important than humans. They committed an act of murder and deserve a heavy fine and a few days in jail to straighten these monsters out.

[Salus Maior]

I mean, sure, they should get in some deep trouble and maybe a pretty significant fine/community service to straighten them out but it is just a bird.

Birds die all the time, it's nature. In this case it wasn't, but I don't know how much of a difference that really makes.

Just a bird implies they are less important than humans. They committed an act of murder and deserve a heavy fine and a few days in jail to straighten these monsters out.

You catch on pretty quick. It's not murder, because 1. they didn't directly kill the bird, and probably didn't know that destroying the nest would end that way, and 2. it's a fucking bird.

Are you a vegan?

[San Lumen]

Just a bird implies they are less important than humans. They committed an act of murder and deserve a heavy fine and a few days in jail to straighten these monsters out.

You catch on pretty quick. It's not murder, because 1. they didn't directly kill the bird, and probably didn't know that destroying the nest would end that way, and 2. it's a fucking bird.

Are you a vegan?

Yes they did. Why would anyone do something so evil? It's not just a bird. its a living creature who has the same right to exist and reproduce as we do.

[Salus Maior]

You catch on pretty quick. It's not murder, because 1. they didn't directly kill the bird, and probably didn't know that destroying the nest would end that way, and 2. it's a fucking bird.

Are you a vegan?

Yes they did. Why would anyone do something so evil? It's not just a bird. its a living creature who has the same right to exist and reproduce as we do.

Do you have evidence to that assumption? Because teenagers are assholes with awful impulse control. Giving them community service will get their head out of their asses and make them think twice about doing something that stupid and needlessly destructive again.

Animals don't have rights. Humans extend protections to animals for one reason or another, but animals have no concept of rights or laws. In nature, it's just survival of the fittest, anything has free reign to kill them if they can. If a snake or a dog killed the swan, would you put it in jail? Hell, I imagine the swans themselves are perfectly willing to kill the young or mates of other animals if it's in their interest. Or for no reason at all.

In fact, here is one such example.

[Estanglia]

I mean, sure, they should get in some deep trouble and maybe a pretty significant fine/community service to straighten them out but it is just a bird.

Birds die all the time, it's nature. In this case it wasn't, but I don't know how much of a difference that really makes.

Just a bird implies they are less important than humans.

They are. At the least, they have fewer rights than us and generally aren't considered equal to humans.

They committed an act of murder and deserve a heavy fine and a few days in jail to straighten these monsters out.

If they committed murder, then sentencing them to a fine and a few days in jail is a significantly reduced punishment compared to your general murder sentence.

If they're going to be so different in sentences, calling this murder is pointless, since it would be treated extremely differently to most other murder charges. Might as well call it something different, like "animal cruelty".

Also, by what definition is killing a swan (and as far as I remember the killing was unintentional, or at least indirect) murder? The only consistent one that I can come up with is "killing a living thing", in which case basically every one of us have murdered a lot of things, and that makes murder a somewhat weightless word.

[Gun Manufacturers]

That's a little too far, maybe a fine. I don't think a few kids lives should be ruined because of this, it's literally the epitome of "boys being boys." At the end of the day, I would say the only reason this probably happened is because kids are bored under the quarantine.

That’s not a excuse. This was murder plain and simple and they need to be taught a lesson and made an example of

It's really not murder. Shit thing to do? Yes. Something that should be punishable by the court? Absolutely. But murder? No.

[Democratic Communist Federation]

I had a friend, now deceased, who went to jail for a year for animal cruelty. Although I felt bad for him (and his related drug addiction), I felt worse for the dog.