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Trans Discussion Thread 4: Transitive Property of Equality

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Who is your favorite contemporary trans celebrity?

Laverne Cox
4
9%
Natalie Wynn
16
34%
Chaz Bono
0
No votes
Thomas Beatie
0
No votes
Bailey Jay
3
6%
Laura Jane Grace
5
11%
Jazz Jennings
2
4%
Cavetown
3
6%
Kim Petras
4
9%
Other (please comment in the thread)
10
21%
 
Total votes : 47

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Des-Bal
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Des-Bal » Tue May 21, 2019 6:16 pm

Necroghastia wrote:
First off, I believe I also asked you to source that this was indeed the origin of the term. Second off, that still does not explain jack, diddly, or shit. Why was this the reference used? Why was the term created in the first place? What is the original definition, and how in all hell does it not play a role in the connotations of the slur?


I was going to answer this post exclusively in old quote but no. Take it up with the time lord.
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Torrocca
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Postby Torrocca » Tue May 21, 2019 6:16 pm

Des-Bal wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Your argument about "diznod" or whatever's a bullshit non-sequitur, and you know it.


Holy fuck, yes they were, and that's blindingly obvious from the context of the Akbar meme and the very definition of "trap" that you keep deliberately ignoring. There's literally no good context to calling somebody a trap, cis or trans. It's a slur.


A non-sequitur is something that does not logically follow. I laid out the logic. I walked with you, hand in hand, down the road of exactly why the fact someone announcing a word would offend them directly before they were called the word takes weight from the idea the word is typically or even often used to offend. If it doesn't follow it's not because it wasn't connected it's because you got lost.


And this "diznod" bullshit doesn't logically follow what-so-fucking-ever, since you're arguing a fake word to be of the same weight as a slur.

No they weren't and no it's not.


Yes they were, and yes it is.
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Hanafuridake
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Hanafuridake » Tue May 21, 2019 6:18 pm

When we've really reached the point where a trans person is being accused of faking hate comments against themselves, despite the fact that the mods would have seen right through it.
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Necroghastia
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Necroghastia » Tue May 21, 2019 6:19 pm

Des-Bal wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:
First off, I believe I also asked you to source that this was indeed the origin of the term. Second off, that still does not explain jack, diddly, or shit. Why was this the reference used? Why was the term created in the first place? What is the original definition, and how in all hell does it not play a role in the connotations of the slur?


I was going to answer this post exclusively in old quote but no. Take it up with the time lord.


SO in other words, you don't have a good answer and are just wasting everybody's time.

Both myself and Torrocca have laid out logic and facts, but all you've done is vague dismissals and "nuh-uhs!" while refusing to actually engage in any meaningful or substantial way.
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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Tue May 21, 2019 6:20 pm

Hanafuridake wrote:When we've really reached the point where a trans person is being accused of faking hate comments against themselves, despite the fact that the mods would have seen right through it.


The lengths some people will go to to not be wrong. :roll:

And this from a guy that "doesn't care".
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The Xenopolis Confederation
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Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Tue May 21, 2019 6:20 pm

Proctopeo wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:That formatting gives me a headache.

Bold full caps is cruise control for cool

It's cruise control for ouch.
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Des-Bal
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Des-Bal » Tue May 21, 2019 6:21 pm

Torrocca wrote:
And this "diznod" bullshit doesn't logically follow what-so-fucking-ever, since you're arguing a fake word to be of the same weight as a slur.


Yes they were, and yes it is.


Sure it does, walk with me again.
See the post linked in the r/drama thread featured a transgender person angrily declaring they weren't a trap whereupon it was pointed out that nobody called them a trap and that traps weren't transgender people. I'm less impressed by that because if she said "don't call me a diznod" dollars to doughnuts someone was going to reply "fuck you you fucking diznod." Diznod is not a slur. Diznod is not offensive. Diznod is not a word.
See? If you say "don't say that I'm offended by it" you're probably about to get called that even if it's not a slur, even if it's not offensive, even if it's not a real word.

Still no and if you'd like to bring that guy here I'll tell it to him to. You said yu-huh, I said present "evidence", and you said yu-huh and then looked for other people saying yu-huh.
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NERVUN
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Right-wing Utopia

Postby NERVUN » Tue May 21, 2019 6:22 pm

On a trawl. Hang on.

Edit: Hrmmm... Ok, I'm going to say I didn't find anything that went over the line. The key word being over. Proctopeo and Torrocca however, you people are right ON that line. The heat needs to be dialed back quite a bit. I'm calling a 30 minute coffee break on this thread. Go get yourself a cup of your favorite beverage, take some deep breaths, yoga, yogurt, whatever it takes to let it go (Even if it is playing Let it Go) and come back at 5 past the hour when I will ask that the tempers be cooled and any accusations of puppetry be shelved.

Edit the second: Ok, thread reopen. Please proceed carefully following all the forum rules.
Last edited by NERVUN on Tue May 21, 2019 7:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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The Xenopolis Confederation
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Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Tue May 21, 2019 7:09 pm

Let's keep it civil, folks. We're all human, let's act like it.
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Cekoviu
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Posts: 11292
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Tue May 21, 2019 7:16 pm

While I don't wish to reignite the argument, I would just like to note that I also received a telegram from the same nation roughly to the same effect (though it used "tranny" as opposed to "trap" and had a lovely addendum that I should kill myself). Unfortunately, I reported it and then deleted it before screenshotting, because I didn't want it to clog up my minimally sized mailbox.
So you can add that to the group of people who received a threatening message.
Anyway, I'd prefer to abandon this topic and instead discuss emotions and hormones. Estrogen made me way more emotionally sensitive, but what are the effects like for people taking testosterone? Do you feel like you have less emotions, or are you just less prone to their physical manifestation?
Last edited by Cekoviu on Tue May 21, 2019 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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NERVUN
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Right-wing Utopia

Postby NERVUN » Tue May 21, 2019 7:22 pm

Cekoviu wrote:While I don't wish to reignite the argument, I would just like to note that I also received a telegram from the same nation roughly to the same effect (though it used "tranny" as opposed to "trap" and had a lovely addendum that I should kill myself). Unfortunately, I reported it and then deleted it before screenshotting, because I didn't want it to clog up my minimally sized mailbox.
So you can add that to the group of people who received a threatening message.
Anyway, I'd prefer to abandon this topic and instead discuss emotions and hormones. Estrogen made me way more emotionally sensitive, but what are the effects like for people taking testosterone? Do you feel like you have less emotions, or are you just less prone to their physical manifestation?

Yes, let's not.

As a statement, that nation had been reported and DEAT'ed as an obvious troll account. Any further information is not something we can comment on under site rules so please let it lie.
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Farnhamia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Farnhamia » Tue May 21, 2019 7:38 pm

Drongonia wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:I'm not surprised that you've been ignored and dismissed on that point tbh. It's easier to ignore hard questions and act as if they were never asked in the first place.


RP, learn to divide posts so I know what the hell you're actually responding to.

Though with what I can discern, that goes back to the point I established at the end - if they want me to excise the word from my vocabulary, even if they aren't remotely present, they should be cut off like a dead weight. Such controlling toxicity deserves no place in my presence. Sure, I likely will suspend usage in their presence (accompanied by a reduction in discussion with them in general, of course, since that itself is pretty toxic too), but not universally.


This entirely ^^^^ Anyway I have stuff to do. Gotta go to work since it's about 7:30 over here. Have a good day all you NSers, traps or otherwise. ;)

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Cappuccina
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Postby Cappuccina » Tue May 21, 2019 7:47 pm

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Let's keep it civil, folks. We're all human, let's act like it.

Yes, please let's stay out of our feelings. It's just the internet.
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Drongonia
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Corporate Bordello

Postby Drongonia » Tue May 21, 2019 8:02 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Drongonia wrote:
This entirely ^^^^ Anyway I have stuff to do. Gotta go to work since it's about 7:30 over here. Have a good day all you NSers, traps or otherwise. ;)

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The Xenopolis Confederation
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Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Tue May 21, 2019 8:10 pm

Cappuccina wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Let's keep it civil, folks. We're all human, let's act like it.

Yes, please let's stay out of our feelings. It's just the internet.

Stay out of our feelings?
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I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

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Felt Karpit
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Founded: Aug 29, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Felt Karpit » Tue May 21, 2019 8:30 pm

Cekoviu wrote:Anyway, I'd prefer to abandon this topic and instead discuss emotions and hormones. Estrogen made me way more emotionally sensitive, but what are the effects like for people taking testosterone? Do you feel like you have less emotions, or are you just less prone to their physical manifestation?


I've been on testosterone 4 years (actually 4 years today exactly) and the effect it has had on my emotions isn't too much honestly. I am more emotionally stable, though I would say that is less testosterone and more just me feeling less dysphoria. Though the biggest difference emotionally would be that it is extremely hard for me to cry now.
Last edited by Felt Karpit on Tue May 21, 2019 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Auzkhia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Auzkhia » Tue May 21, 2019 8:48 pm

Cekoviu wrote:Anyway, I'd prefer to abandon this topic and instead discuss emotions and hormones. Estrogen made me way more emotionally sensitive, but what are the effects like for people taking testosterone? Do you feel like you have less emotions, or are you just less prone to their physical manifestation?

I heard it does the opposite in that aspects. But I'm sure it helps them feel more stable with less dysphoria. I only know it from friends and also a few ex-boyfriends. The latter, I know it has ramped up their sex drive.
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Cekoviu
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Tue May 21, 2019 9:13 pm

Felt Karpit wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:Anyway, I'd prefer to abandon this topic and instead discuss emotions and hormones. Estrogen made me way more emotionally sensitive, but what are the effects like for people taking testosterone? Do you feel like you have less emotions, or are you just less prone to their physical manifestation?


I've been on testosterone 4 years (actually 4 years today exactly) and the effect it has had on my emotions isn't too much honestly. I am more emotionally stable, though I would say that is less testosterone and more just me feeling less dysphoria. Though the biggest difference emotionally would be that it is extremely hard for me to cry now.

Okay, interesting. So I guess it's not really a reverse estrogen in that aspect, if you're still feeling the same breadth of emotions.
Auzkhia wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:Anyway, I'd prefer to abandon this topic and instead discuss emotions and hormones. Estrogen made me way more emotionally sensitive, but what are the effects like for people taking testosterone? Do you feel like you have less emotions, or are you just less prone to their physical manifestation?

I heard it does the opposite in that aspects. But I'm sure it helps them feel more stable with less dysphoria. I only know it from friends and also a few ex-boyfriends. The latter, I know it has ramped up their sex drive.

That's what I've heard from the more open trans guys I know irl, yeah. It apparently also makes you smell worse, which is something I've unfortunately observed.
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Auzkhia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Auzkhia » Tue May 21, 2019 9:18 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
Felt Karpit wrote:
I've been on testosterone 4 years (actually 4 years today exactly) and the effect it has had on my emotions isn't too much honestly. I am more emotionally stable, though I would say that is less testosterone and more just me feeling less dysphoria. Though the biggest difference emotionally would be that it is extremely hard for me to cry now.

Okay, interesting. So I guess it's not really a reverse estrogen in that aspect, if you're still feeling the same breadth of emotions.
Auzkhia wrote:I heard it does the opposite in that aspects. But I'm sure it helps them feel more stable with less dysphoria. I only know it from friends and also a few ex-boyfriends. The latter, I know it has ramped up their sex drive.

That's what I've heard from the more open trans guys I know irl, yeah. It apparently also makes you smell worse, which is something I've unfortunately observed.

Body smells change with HRT, I noticed with myself and my ex-boyfriends compared to cis people. Sex drive is another part of it. But again, that's a variable effect.

One thing T does is changes voice, one of my friends was on T just change their voice and went off of it. They're agender but still want top surgery.
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The Xenopolis Confederation
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Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Tue May 21, 2019 9:19 pm

Felt Karpit wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:Anyway, I'd prefer to abandon this topic and instead discuss emotions and hormones. Estrogen made me way more emotionally sensitive, but what are the effects like for people taking testosterone? Do you feel like you have less emotions, or are you just less prone to their physical manifestation?


I've been on testosterone 4 years (actually 4 years today exactly) and the effect it has had on my emotions isn't too much honestly. I am more emotionally stable, though I would say that is less testosterone and more just me feeling less dysphoria. Though the biggest difference emotionally would be that it is extremely hard for me to cry now.

It's also extremely hard for me to cry as well and I hate it.
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Auzkhia
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Founded: Mar 11, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Auzkhia » Tue May 21, 2019 9:23 pm

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Felt Karpit wrote:
I've been on testosterone 4 years (actually 4 years today exactly) and the effect it has had on my emotions isn't too much honestly. I am more emotionally stable, though I would say that is less testosterone and more just me feeling less dysphoria. Though the biggest difference emotionally would be that it is extremely hard for me to cry now.

It's also extremely hard for me to cry as well and I hate it.

I cried when it upset, it wasn't hard, but I can tear up with a wider range of emotions, it's not being sad or anger, but even good stuff too. I never knew crying tears of joy was a thing. I heard of it, but never experienced it.
Last edited by Auzkhia on Tue May 21, 2019 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nakena
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nakena » Tue May 21, 2019 9:23 pm

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Call me she/him/them. As you please.

Is this the right thread for me?
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Auzkhia
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27407
Founded: Mar 11, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Auzkhia » Tue May 21, 2019 9:25 pm

Nakena wrote:I am an adorable yet genderfluid, bisexual, biological male with a strong feminine side.

Call me she/him/them. As you please.

Is this the right thread for me?

Yes, absolutely! Welcome friendo.

I consider myself genderfluid, though with a pretty specific range between androgyne and girl.
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Hediacrana
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Founded: Nov 20, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Hediacrana » Tue May 21, 2019 9:28 pm

Nakena wrote:I am an adorable yet genderfluid, bisexual, biological male with a strong feminine side.

Call me she/him/them. As you please.

Is this the right thread for me?

Welcome here!

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Felt Karpit
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 185
Founded: Aug 29, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Felt Karpit » Tue May 21, 2019 9:28 pm

Auzkhia wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:It's also extremely hard for me to cry as well and I hate it.

I cried when it upset, it wasn't hard, but I can tear up with a wider range of emotions, it's not being sad or anger, but even good stuff too. I never knew crying tears of joy was a thing. I heard of it, but never experienced it.


Before I never did cry happy tears. The main source of my crying was actually when I was angry. So now when I'm angry I can actually speak coherently, so honestly that is a plus. Though sometimes you just need a good sad cey and it just doesn't happen for me.

Funnily enough though, I have super watery eyes. I think more so now than before testosterone. So when I yawn I always tear up a bunch and people that don't know that sometimes think I'm crying. I don't really count it cause it's not emotionally triggered.
You're probably glad to know that I'm done with gp.

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[spoiler=quotes]felt dabbed for our sins -malphe
get DOS - yuno
Felt unlocked the secrets of the Yee, so he’s definitely got a place in the blame game. - ark


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