Not at all.
Godular wrote:... into itself.
Logically impossible.
Still no.
Godular wrote:There's an analogy about this involving a hotel with infinite rooms hosting multiple groups of infinite people, but it gets complicated.
Yes, I know that scenario. That was explained as a paradox and logically impossible by some discord brothers I know. If I can find I'll show you insha-Allah.Ifreann wrote:How do you know that?
Because Allah SWT himself said so.
Circular reasoning.
Ifreann wrote:Which mean that things can exist without a cause. Which means that the universe could, possibly, exist without a cause.
Still didn't say anything about things nor the universe.
Either Allah SWT is a thing, or he doesn't exist. Which is it?
Ifreann wrote:If there can be things that can exist without needing a cause, how do you know that the universe is not such a thing?
Because for 1 it has a beginning.
That does not imply a cause.
1: You want me to prove that everything has a cause for it's existence? That sounds pretty self-explanatory.
It's false.
2: Scientific models, big bang theory
Says that there was a point in the past at which the universe was in a hot, dense state that behaved very differently from the universe that we know today. Says nothing about whether that was the beginning of the universe or not.
4: Yes it does.
No, it doesn't: you leap from "cause" to "god" with no justification at all.
Salandriagado wrote:No, they absolutely are random
From our limited understanding, yes.
No, absolutely so.
Salandriagado wrote:This is a nonsensical comparison.
No it's not.
Yes, it is. The two things are very different.
[broken quote snipped: you didn't respond to the following point of mine that got trapped in the broken quote, so I've left it here in case you want to respond to it.]
The universe is expanding. Hence there's an outside.
That does not follow. The universe is not expanding by extending itself at some boundary, but by the distance metric shifting such that a fixed distance becomes shorter.
Salandriagado wrote:You explicitly claimed that this argument proved the existence of your particular deity.
Where?
This is the argument that you presented when challenged on that.
Salandriagado wrote:Here, you assume your conclusion.
How?
You assume the truth of statements supposedly by the deity that you are trying to establish the existence of.
Salandriagado wrote:This does not follow.
Yes it does. Every component of this universe came from something else before it, so logically the universe itself came from something (theoretically that singularity).
No. You cannot pass arbitrary properties through arbitrary limits.
Estanglia wrote:But why doesn't Allah have a cause?
Because:
1: Allah SWT exists outside of this universe
2: Nothing is like Allah SWT
3: Allah SWT is a non-contigent being (doesn't need/have a cause)
This is just you reiterating assuming your conclusion three times.