It's not technically an encyclical, but it has set off a firestorm of controversy about what it actually means to the point of cardinals in open conflict with each other.
Advertisement
by Diopolis » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:38 am
by Pasong Tirad » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:41 am
Thermodolia wrote:Y'all do realize that the Catholic Church hasn't approved of this "miracle" but at the same time doesn't allow independent investigations into the "miracle". Besides in 1631 after the "miracle" had taken place Mt. Vesuvius erupted and killed 18,000.
So there is nothing to fear, once again the old Jewish saying on miracles is right again
by Tarsonis Survivors » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:18 pm
by Tarsonis Survivors » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:29 pm
Thermodolia wrote:Y'all do realize that the Catholic Church hasn't approved of this "miracle" but at the same time doesn't allow independent investigations into the "miracle". Besides in 1631 after the "miracle" had taken place Mt. Vesuvius erupted and killed 18,000.
So there is nothing to fear, once again the old Jewish saying on miracles is right again
by The Archregimancy » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:43 pm
by Drown » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:45 pm
Thermodolia wrote:
Or nothing is happening. A Hasidic saying has it that a Hasid who believes that all the miracles said to have been performed by the Hasidic masters actually happened is a fool, but anyone who believes that they could not have happened is an unbeliever.
by Thermodolia » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:03 pm
Drown wrote:Thermodolia wrote:Or nothing is happening. A Hasidic saying has it that a Hasid who believes that all the miracles said to have been performed by the Hasidic masters actually happened is a fool, but anyone who believes that they could not have happened is an unbeliever.
WWII happened when a saint's blood didn't liquefy in 1939. Forgot their name though.
by Thermodolia » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:03 pm
Luminesa wrote:Thermodolia wrote:Y'all do realize that the Catholic Church hasn't approved of this "miracle" but at the same time doesn't allow independent investigations into the "miracle". Besides in 1631 after the "miracle" had taken place Mt. Vesuvius erupted and killed 18,000.
So there is nothing to fear, once again the old Jewish saying on miracles is right again
Except it happens almost every year anyway?
by Hashemite Arabiyah » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:05 pm
by Tarsonis Survivors » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:10 pm
by Thermodolia » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:16 pm
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:Thermodolia wrote:Ya I'm not buying that, just like I'm not buying this "miracle". In other words I'm not buying what the RCC is selling, even though this hasn't been approved by the RCC
I'd imagine your inherent biases would preclude you from believing anything the Church is "selling"
by Tarsonis Survivors » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:37 pm
by Luminesa » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:15 pm
The Archregimancy wrote:Pasong Tirad wrote:Yeah, but the miracles that bend natural law don't really sit well with me.
Tarsonis has made the point as well, but would you care to clarify for us which miracles recognised by the Catholic Church don't 'bend' 'natural law'.
Quite apart from the virgin birth, one might have thought that the Resurrection might have presented minor problems on that front.
by Novsvacro » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:41 am
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:Thermodolia wrote:True. But the RCC hasn't officially declared that this is in fact a miracle.
I'd imagine it has to do with the fact that in order to do so a potential Miracle must first be fully investigated via scientific method, or any other natural explanation. Given the nature of the materials present in the potential miracle, testing it would destroy said miracle, so they're perfectly content to let it go on as a popular piety thing, rather than an official miracle.
by Nioya » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:52 am
by Pasong Tirad » Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:51 am
Luminesa wrote:The Archregimancy wrote:
Tarsonis has made the point as well, but would you care to clarify for us which miracles recognised by the Catholic Church don't 'bend' 'natural law'.
Quite apart from the virgin birth, one might have thought that the Resurrection might have presented minor problems on that front.
Jesus pops up from somewhere like, "I meeeeean..."
by Lost Memories » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:19 am
Nioya wrote:Someone recently asked me "how is your walk with God?" I didn't know exactly how to respond. Today has been good but I still feel like things aren't quite right. I told them I want to be a saint guy I still don't know how.
How do I know if I am right in my walk with God? How do I know if I am pious? What should be my goal?
by Jamzmania » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:03 am
Pasong Tirad wrote:Luminesa wrote:Jesus pops up from somewhere like, "I meeeeean..."
Okay yeah I don't understand it either but it is what I believe. A lot of things about what I believe don't make sense and I try my best every day to understand it. No, I don't believe that Moses "parted" the Red Sea, no I don't believe Jesus literally gave sight to the blind or literally multiplied bread and fish to feed five thousand. I try and make sense of it as much as I can and more often than not, I come up short. But I have my God, my Christ and if it doesn't make sense I make peace with it with the idea that maybe I'll figure it out one day - or maybe not and that's okay too.
The Alexanderians wrote:"Fear no man or woman,
No matter what their size.
Call upon me,
And I will equalize."
-Engraved on the side of my M1911 .45
by Pasong Tirad » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:11 am
Jamzmania wrote:Pasong Tirad wrote:
Okay yeah I don't understand it either but it is what I believe. A lot of things about what I believe don't make sense and I try my best every day to understand it. No, I don't believe that Moses "parted" the Red Sea, no I don't believe Jesus literally gave sight to the blind or literally multiplied bread and fish to feed five thousand. I try and make sense of it as much as I can and more often than not, I come up short. But I have my God, my Christ and if it doesn't make sense I make peace with it with the idea that maybe I'll figure it out one day - or maybe not and that's okay too.
Why do you not believe in miracles? They are fundamental to Christianity. Without miracles, how would you know what to believe? How would you know that a man's message is truly from God? Anyone can claim to be God, but only God can confirm the message through miracles.
by Luminesa » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:14 am
Novsvacro wrote:Tarsonis Survivors wrote:
I'd imagine it has to do with the fact that in order to do so a potential Miracle must first be fully investigated via scientific method, or any other natural explanation. Given the nature of the materials present in the potential miracle, testing it would destroy said miracle, so they're perfectly content to let it go on as a popular piety thing, rather than an official miracle.
Any kind of tampering with San Genarro would probably cause a peasant rebellion in Naples
by Luminesa » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:16 am
Nioya wrote:Someone recently asked me "how is your walk with God?" I didn't know exactly how to respond. Today has been good but I still feel like things aren't quite right. I told them I want to be a saint guy I still don't know how.
How do I know if I am right in my walk with God? How do I know if I am pious? What should be my goal?
by Diopolis » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:18 am
Pasong Tirad wrote:Jamzmania wrote:Why do you not believe in miracles? They are fundamental to Christianity. Without miracles, how would you know what to believe? How would you know that a man's message is truly from God? Anyone can claim to be God, but only God can confirm the message through miracles.
Okay I think we have a great misunderstanding. I said I don't believe in miracles that bend natural law, like the blind suddenly being able to see, etc. I don't know how to fully explain it, but I do believe in miracles - just not miracles that, as I said, go against the laws of nature.
You know what's fundamental to my Christianity? Belief in God and Christ and in Christ's teachings and the desire to create a Kingdom of Heaven on Earth - not miracles.
by Luminesa » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:21 am
Pasong Tirad wrote:Jamzmania wrote:Why do you not believe in miracles? They are fundamental to Christianity. Without miracles, how would you know what to believe? How would you know that a man's message is truly from God? Anyone can claim to be God, but only God can confirm the message through miracles.
Okay I think we have a great misunderstanding. I said I don't believe in miracles that bend natural law, like the blind suddenly being able to see, etc. I don't know how to fully explain it, but I do believe in miracles - just not miracles that, as I said, go against the laws of nature.
You know what's fundamental to my Christianity? Belief in God and Christ and in Christ's teachings and the desire to create a Kingdom of Heaven on Earth - not miracles.
by Pasong Tirad » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:25 am
Diopolis wrote:So you believe that large parts of the scriptures are fairy tales.
Luminesa wrote:But Christ specifically showed His power and divinity through working miracles CONSTANTLY.
by Luminesa » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:29 am
Pasong Tirad wrote:Diopolis wrote:So you believe that large parts of the scriptures are fairy tales.
I believe there's a rational explanation for all of it. I just don't have all the answers.Luminesa wrote:But Christ specifically showed His power and divinity through working miracles CONSTANTLY.
Again, as I've said, I don't have all the answers. I believe Christ is both human and divine, so that would be an easy way for me to wrap my head around his miracle-work but I personally don't buy it. The way I see it is that focusing on His miracle-work is distracting us from His message and His teachings.
Advertisement
Users browsing this forum: Ancientania, Andsed, Bienenhalde, Hidrandia, Kerwa, Kostane, Luziyca, Maximum Imperium Rex, Narland, Nazel Geldiic, Ors Might, Pale Dawn, Pasong Tirad, Ravemath, Shrillland, Sorcery, Statesburg, Stratonesia, Trollgaard, Tungstan, Verkhoyanska, Zancostan
Advertisement