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Trying on Kimono = Cultural Appropriation?

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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:41 am

Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:
Dyakovo wrote:Just so you know, "getting shot" is not a prerequisite for getting a purple heart either...

Feel better?

Yes.


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Postby Egoman » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:41 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:I thought I was top tier SJW. Looks like I've gotta go way deeper into the rabbit hole.

Please don't. You might live up to your name soon.

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The Alexanderians
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Postby The Alexanderians » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:41 am

The Carlisle wrote:
The Alexanderians wrote:Am I appropriating Japanese culture when I eat sushi? No.

Japanese cuisine spread to the US with the immigration of Japanese immigrants to California. Sushi was one of the things that caught on in pop culture. It was as organic a currywurst.

If kimono caught on as formal attire as well, that would be organic cultural immersion as well.

This display is none of those things. This is just a show to attract people to an exhibit, not a serious display on kimonos, their history and meaning.

But untill the hypothetical point when it becomes formal wear it would be "cultural appropriation". Uh-oh I play jrpgs! They're not mainstream yet! I've culturally appropriated! *Stabs self in stomach*
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Postby Occupied Deutschland » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:42 am

The Alexanderians wrote:
The Carlisle wrote:Japanese cuisine spread to the US with the immigration of Japanese immigrants to California. Sushi was one of the things that caught on in pop culture. It was as organic a currywurst.

If kimono caught on as formal attire as well, that would be organic cultural immersion as well.

This display is none of those things. This is just a show to attract people to an exhibit, not a serious display on kimonos, their history and meaning.

But untill the hypothetical point when it becomes formal wear it would be "cultural appropriation". Uh-oh I play jrpgs! They're not mainstream yet! I've culturally appropriated! *Stabs self in stomach*

Seppuku? Really? In penance for your cultural appropriation you're going to culturally appropriate ritual suicide?

That's wacist.
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New Grestin
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Postby New Grestin » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:42 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:I thought I was top tier SJW. Looks like I've gotta go way deeper into the rabbit hole.

Your sig says you're against Radical Feminism, dear.

You're not even close to the top tier of SJWs, but that's not a crown you really want.
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Wanderjar
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Postby Wanderjar » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:42 am

Aculea wrote:
Wanderjar wrote:But in all seriousness, how could someone possibly be offended by an individual tacitly saying 'Your cultural heritage is really neat. I wish to emulate it out of respect either as a costume or whatever.' I mean, really? How can I be offended by that as a Seminole/Cherokee?


Okay, no, I have to take the other side long enough to ask a question. There are many seminole/cherokee that disagree with you. Do you ever talk to them? How do those conversations go?


Prove it, I've never, ever seen it. Granted, I'm not involved with the Native American community at all, other than brief talks with other Native American veterans (mostly when I run into VFW and ALR out and about), but we never discuss things like this. So regarding personal interactive discussion on the matter I will concede that I have no first hand evidence. However, the secondary evidence via interviews and the Seminole Nations/Eastern Nations statements on similar matters always point to them effectively saying they don't particularly care.
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Egoman
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Postby Egoman » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:43 am

The Alexanderians wrote:
The Carlisle wrote:Japanese cuisine spread to the US with the immigration of Japanese immigrants to California. Sushi was one of the things that caught on in pop culture. It was as organic a currywurst.

If kimono caught on as formal attire as well, that would be organic cultural immersion as well.

This display is none of those things. This is just a show to attract people to an exhibit, not a serious display on kimonos, their history and meaning.

But untill the hypothetical point when it becomes formal wear it would be "cultural appropriation". Uh-oh I play jrpgs! They're not mainstream yet! I've culturally appropriated! *Stabs self in stomach*

An appropriator even in death. I'd salute you, but the Roman salute was already appropriated by the nazis. There's nothing I can do.

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The Alexanderians
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Postby The Alexanderians » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:43 am

Occupied Deutschland wrote:
The Alexanderians wrote:But untill the hypothetical point when it becomes formal wear it would be "cultural appropriation". Uh-oh I play jrpgs! They're not mainstream yet! I've culturally appropriated! *Stabs self in stomach*

Seppuku? Really? In penance for your cultural appropriation you're going to culturally appropriate ritual suicide?

That's wacist.

I have dishonored my gaming clan. IT is the only way.
Galloism wrote:Or we can go with feminism doesn't exist. We all imagined it. Collectively.
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Achesia wrote:Threads like this is why I need to stop coming to NSG....

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The Archregimancy wrote:
Hagia Sophia is best church.

Major-Tom wrote:Why am I full of apathy?

I'm just here to be the peanut gallery
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Commonwealth of Hank the Cat
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Postby Commonwealth of Hank the Cat » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:45 am

Clearly, Canadians who wear Ushanka's are not wearing it to keep warm, but they are insulting Russians by wearing it. I'm ashamed that I ever wore a ushanka. I have insulted the Russian People, obviously.

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Wanderjar
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Postby Wanderjar » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:45 am

The Alexanderians wrote:
Occupied Deutschland wrote:Seppuku? Really? In penance for your cultural appropriation you're going to culturally appropriate ritual suicide?

That's wacist.

I have dishonored my gaming clan. IT is the only way.


It was a good death.

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The Carlisle
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Postby The Carlisle » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:45 am

Dyakovo wrote:
The Carlisle wrote:Japanese cuisine spread to the US with the immigration of Japanese immigrants to California. Sushi was one of the things that caught on in pop culture. It was as organic a currywurst.

If kimono caught on as formal attire as well, that would be organic cultural immersion as well.

This display is none of those things. This is just a show to attract people to an exhibit, not a serious display on kimonos, their history and meaning.

Eating sushi is not a serious look into the history of sushi.

But sushi is also totally immersed within American culture. We know it's origins are Japanese, but we all know the California roll didn't. Sushi evolved and became apart of our culture through the exchange with immigrant populations. Its the same as not studying hamburgers or tacos. We think its normal food Americans eat, not a foreign dish served by select restaurants. Fuck, I get sushi at Giant made by white Americans.
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USS Monitor
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Postby USS Monitor » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:45 am

Divitaen wrote:
USS Monitor wrote:
Why do you think cultural exchange can only be done in one way?


Not one monolithic way. But the general way is cultural exchange cannot simply be one culture treating and reducing another culture to a simple trinket, fad or crude entertainment device. If its an exotic sideshow for you then I'd rather not. But cultural exchange can occur through many ways, interacting with people from another culture, learning another language, studying their history, or slowly picking up aspects of their culture.


Exchanging trinkets and entertainment has always been part of the process when different cultures come into contact. The Silk Road was a trade route, not a study abroad program, you know? People all over the world make cheesy fads out of unfamiliar cultures. I think it's just human nature. The first time I went to China, I saw TV shows where "white" characters were played by Chinese guys in bad blonde wigs, and there was a big fad for T-shirts with "English" writing on them, except it was riddled with typos because most people didn't really know English. I don't condemn the Chinese for it. They just didn't know their shirts were full of typos, and they didn't have a taboo against dressing up as other races because they didn't have the same history of race relations as we have in the West.
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:45 am

New Grestin wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:I thought I was top tier SJW. Looks like I've gotta go way deeper into the rabbit hole.

Your sig says you're against Radical Feminism, dear.

You're not even close to the top tier of SJWs, but that's not a crown you really want.


No one else is queening me and frankly I'm getting impatient.
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Wanderjar
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Postby Wanderjar » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:45 am

Commonwealth of Hank the Cat wrote:Clearly, Canadians who wear Ushanka's are not wearing it to keep warm, but they are insulting Russians by wearing it. I'm ashamed that I ever wore a ushanka. I have insulted the Russian People, obviously.


Some people kinda deserve to get insulted ;)
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New Granadeseret
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Postby New Granadeseret » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:45 am

Divitaen wrote:
New Granadeseret wrote:Companies not selling out t mass consumerism for money... yah, not going to happen. Making money is their reason for existence, and they have no motivation to shut off the flow. The change has to come from the consumers voting with their wallets to go elsewhere... and that won't happen if you close the gates to any interaction with a culture (to see if they'd even be curious about it or not) by outsiders unless they go through a great deal of work beforehand.

There are two ways you can counter the 'degradation' of culture. Your approach seems to be circling he wagons to maintain purity; which of course will result in nobody outside caring about it and will be gladly negligent towards it's upkeep, while you only get new supporters through 'natural birth' into it (many of whom will be lead away by the appeal of other, more open cultures), only slowing the decay.

The other option is to get supporters and strength from the outside by allowing for slow entry and fair, honest competition on the trans-cultural stage. Make the information available in interesting ways... even if they aren't one-hundred percent, every minute detail included levels of accuracy and scale. They, others think this might be interesting and have a motivation to look into it, possibly becoming a partial or even full convert. A certain level of lowest-common-denominator is a less fortunate, but unavoidable, aspect of this, but you're not much (if any) worse off losing somebody that you never had in the first place.


We're still going to have a melting pot of cultures. We will still have immigrant communities bonding and meeting, and cross-cultural exchange happening through the formation of new clothes, new languages, new cuisine, new music. It has happened throughout history and will continue happening. But companies reducing cultural icons, elements and facets into mere toys and playthings is something that is unnecessary to the promotion of any culture. Companies always want to pander to mass consumerism for the sake of money, but the fact that this will always be a reality doesn't mean we can't criticise it.


But how is that not cultural appropriation? You're taking aspects of somebody else's culture, picking out the bits you like (and tweaking them) and ignoring those you don't (without their direct permission, I might add), and implanting it into something with an entirely different context, meaning, and purpose to what you originally plucked it from. I personally couldn't care if they were or not, but if they are you're bound to oppose them.
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Postby Egoman » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:46 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
New Grestin wrote:Your sig says you're against Radical Feminism, dear.

You're not even close to the top tier of SJWs, but that's not a crown you really want.


No one else is queening me and frankly I'm getting impatient.

Chessmistress has far better chances for that. She's the one you'd need to supersede.

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Postby Page » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:47 am

Rather than me make an assumption either way I'd like to know how Japanese people feel about it.
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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:47 am

The Carlisle wrote:
Dyakovo wrote:Eating sushi is not a serious look into the history of sushi.

But sushi is also totally immersed within American culture.

And? Was the first white person to eat sushi outside of Japan a horrible racist? Or were they just a person choosing to try something new?
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Postby The Cobalt Sky » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:47 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
New Grestin wrote:Your sig says you're against Radical Feminism, dear.

You're not even close to the top tier of SJWs, but that's not a crown you really want.


No one else is queening me and frankly I'm getting impatient.

Don't worry, I might be able to top you... Maybe...
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Postby New Grestin » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:47 am

Egoman wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:
No one else is queening me and frankly I'm getting impatient.

Chessmistress has far better chances for that. She's the one you'd need to supersede.

Quiet!

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The Alexanderians
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Postby The Alexanderians » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:48 am

Commonwealth of Hank the Cat wrote:Clearly, Canadians who wear Ushanka's are not wearing it to keep warm, but they are insulting Russians by wearing it. I'm ashamed that I ever wore a ushanka. I have insulted the Russian People, obviously.

Bitch please, I'll hand them out to anyone who'll take them. Spreading culture through the cold, in traditional russian way.
Galloism wrote:Or we can go with feminism doesn't exist. We all imagined it. Collectively.
You can't fight the friction
Women belong in the kitchen
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I have brought dishonor to my gaming clan
Achesia wrote:Threads like this is why I need to stop coming to NSG....

Marethian Lupanar of Teladre wrote:A bright and cheerful mountain village of chapel-goers~

The Archregimancy wrote:
Hagia Sophia is best church.

Major-Tom wrote:Why am I full of apathy?

I'm just here to be the peanut gallery
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Ikania
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Postby Ikania » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:48 am

Cultural appropriation is a sack of shit.
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Egoman
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Postby Egoman » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:48 am

Wanderjar wrote:
Commonwealth of Hank the Cat wrote:Clearly, Canadians who wear Ushanka's are not wearing it to keep warm, but they are insulting Russians by wearing it. I'm ashamed that I ever wore a ushanka. I have insulted the Russian People, obviously.


Some people kinda deserve to get insulted ;)

Mess off, Russians are fucking awesome.

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The Alexanderians
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Postby The Alexanderians » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:49 am

Wanderjar wrote:
The Alexanderians wrote:I have dishonored my gaming clan. IT is the only way.


It was a good death.

Image

This thread is fantastic right now
Galloism wrote:Or we can go with feminism doesn't exist. We all imagined it. Collectively.
You can't fight the friction
Women belong in the kitchen
Men belong in the kitchen
Everyone belongs in the kitchen
Kitchen has food
I have brought dishonor to my gaming clan
Achesia wrote:Threads like this is why I need to stop coming to NSG....

Marethian Lupanar of Teladre wrote:A bright and cheerful mountain village of chapel-goers~

The Archregimancy wrote:
Hagia Sophia is best church.

Major-Tom wrote:Why am I full of apathy?

I'm just here to be the peanut gallery
уσυ нανєи'т gσт тнє fυℓℓ єffє¢т

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USS Monitor
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Postby USS Monitor » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:49 am

Aculea wrote:
The Carlisle wrote:Potentially wearing a cleavage showing dirndl to a Halloween party is cool. Doesn't make you less of an asshole for bastardizing South German culture for your stupid costume parties.

Hey, that's a really good point. Egoman, close your ears. My wife loves steampunk and every time we go to an event she's got something even more Victorian to wear. If I don't do anything in a year or two it'll be corsets, bustles, and wireframe dresses. I wonder, what is the moral way to respond to this cultural appropriation happening before my eyes? I mean, I can see how other people in this thread can feel justified in ignoring Japan's cultural appropriation of the west, seeing as doing something about it requires effort, but now it's confronting me and I have no way to hide from it.


As someone from the Victorian era, I give your wife permission to appropriate our clothes.
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