Prostitution and presumed double standards

[Samadhi]

Sigh* Okay, I promise I'll stop for real this time. No more.

Men don't generally love working in the coal mines.

I'm guessing that digging coal has lower potential for euphoria as well.

[Katganistan]

In the United States, this ends in a notoriously brutal prison sentence, likely complete with beatings and rapes from other prisoners, followed swiftly by release into a society that neither hires criminals nor allows them welfare. Indignation to johns must be pretty intense among voters to drive such a response.

Solicitation of Prostitution (for US, in general terms)

The person who pays for the sexual services, sometimes called "Johns," can face charges of solicitation of prostitution. Solicitation of prostitution is a crime involving a person's agreement to exchange money for sex. The agreement does not have to be explicit. A person's actions can be enough to demonstrate agreement. The solicitation charge can be enhanced by solicitation of prostitution to a minor, which will often result in the misdemeanor charge becoming a felony.

The crime of solicitation of prostitution occurs at the moment you agree to pay for sex, and take some action to further that agreement. Solicitation is simply encouraging someone to commit a crime. It does not matter if the crime ends up being committed or not. An action to further an agreement can be most any act demonstrating a willingness to go through with the agreement, like withdrawing money from an ATM.

Penalties and Sentencing

Depending on the offense and the circumstance of the arrest, solicitation and prostitution are punished in most states by a minimal fine and jail time for the first offense. However, subsequent offenses penalties increase and can be significant.

Federal prostitution trafficking violations can result in possible 5 to 10 year prison sentences and fines.

Penalties

Solicitation of prostitution is typically charged as a misdemeanor offense, though felony charges are possible in some states and in some situations. Misdemeanor crimes are less serious than felony crimes and have less significant penalties associated with them. However, the specific penalty a court chooses to impose for any conviction of solicitation of prostitution can differ widely depending on the state and the circumstances of the case. Felony solicitation charges typically only arise when a person is a repeat offender or when a person commits a solicitation if he or she has HIV.

Jail. A conviction for solicitation of prostitution can result in a jail sentence of up to a year. First-time offenders typically face much shorter jail sentences, such as a maximum of between 30 days to six months. Felony convictions can result in a prison sentence of at least a year, and possibly five years or more.
Fines and fees. Fines for solicitation crimes can also vary widely, ranging from less than $100 up to $1,000 or more for felony offenses. In addition to fines, courts also require a person convicted of solicitation to pay court fees and prosecution seeks. These fees typically cost an additional several hundred dollars or more.
Probation. Courts may also sentence a person convicted of solicitation to a probation period. Probation usually lasts at least 12 months, during which time the person on probation must comply with specific court requirements. These requirements usually include, for example, not committing more crimes, not associating with known prostitutes or known criminals, paying all required fees and fines, performing community service, and even seek psychological or marital counseling.
Pre-trial diversion. Pretrial diversion programs, also known as diversion, pre-trial intervention, or by similar names, are very similar to probation, but instead of being convicted for a solicitation crime, a prosecutor allows the accused person to comply with the terms of a diversion period before a court renders judgment. The person on diversion must comply with the diversion program conditions, many of which are similar or identical to probation requirements. If the accused successfully completes the diversion program the prosecutor drops the solicitation charges.

Brutal jail sentences? Please be better informed, or don't exaggerate.

[Hammer Britannia]

-strike-

I pick 7, None of the Above.

Literally, none of these is prostitution. Monogamous relations are when two people agree to be with each other in exchange for nothing. Love is not a form of prostitution. If they're only using each other for sex, then it's not a monogamous relationship. It's friends with benefits with extra steps.

Sugar Daddies/Sugar Mommies are escorts more than anything, which is technically a form of prostitution but I don't really consider it as such.

Child Support Laws... I'm sorry what? Men can't get child support either? Do people not divorce for other reasons besides child support? What?

The bars one I don't even need to explain, but I will. There's a couple of things called being nice or wanting to make a friend. Whenever someone, male or otherwise, gets me a drink at the bar it's normally for those two reasons. You don't just go up to someone, buy them a drink, then go to bed with them.

The pornography one... fucking lol. You used FAMILY GUY as your source. And while yes, you are paying someone for sex, it is not for the enjoyment of the porn actors but those at home. So, no. It is not prostitution, it is just moviemaking with sexual themes. (What, does the sex scene from literally every movie make it prostitution now?)

As for the sex strike ones, that's not prostitution that's coercion.

All in all, 0/10 OP. Not to mention, OP seems to be fixated that only women do this or something. I know for a fact that the porn/bar one goes both ways

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Brutal jail sentences? Please be better informed, or don't exaggerate.

I distinctly recall hearing of prostitutes; not even the johns themselves, but the prostitutes; being sentenced to hard labour in Joe Arpaio's chain gangs. So harsh penalties aren't across the country, but that doesn't mean they aren't there depending on the jurisdiction.

Besides, the point about a criminal record impeding employability or access to welfare still applies either way.

[New haven america]

At bars, drinks are often offered with the implicit arrangement of having sex with the person who offered them a drink later on.

No. That isn't the case at all.

Kinda is, yeah.

You send a chick a drink and hope you get a date in return, when in all likelihood you've probably just been milked for free drinks.

[New haven america]

I don't even disagree but I think throwing people into jail over it, is the way it leads to all kind of nasty situations for those whom are the weakest.

And I don't think legalizing it would help either. If the majority of prostitutes are actively choosing and enjoying their job, I wouldn't have any problems. But the ugly truth is, most of them want something better. I rather the government create programs to help them instead of condoning their acts.

Same can be said for most people.

The number of people who actively enjoy their jobs is actually pretty small.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Literally, none of these is prostitution. Monogamous relations are when two people agree to be with each other in exchange for nothing. Love is not a form of prostitution. If they're only using each other for sex, then it's not a monogamous relationship. It's friends with benefits with extra steps.

"Friends With Benefits" relationships are still perfectly legal.

Sugar Daddies/Sugar Mommies are escorts more than anything, which is technically a form of prostitution but I don't really consider it as such.

Then specify a distinction.

Child Support Laws... I'm sorry what? Men can't get child support either? Do people not divorce for other reasons besides child support? What?

It's her call whether or not to keep the baby in the first place. Men can get child support if they get custody of the kids, but that depends on convincing the system the kids are his, wanting custody, and making it a priority in a system that stacks the deck against him getting custody at all.

Child support is owed if she bears his child. It has nothing to do with "divorce."

The bars one I don't even need to explain, but I will. There's a couple of things called being nice or wanting to make a friend. Whenever someone, male or otherwise, gets me a drink at the bar it's normally for those two reasons. You don't just go up to someone, buy them a drink, then go to bed with them.

And how often have "friendships" ended in his bitterness that it didn't become something more? (Or possibly hers, if the guy is too obsessed with someone else and/or too afraid of the risks to reciprocate?)

The pornography one... fucking lol. You used FAMILY GUY as your source. And while yes, you are paying someone for sex, it is not for the enjoyment of the porn actors but those at home.

Oh, that's convenient. So paying someone to have sex with you is a crime, paying someone to have sex with someone else is perfectly legal?

Being that my argument revolves around the very definitions of pornography and prostitution rather than any sort of assumptions, it doesn't matter what my source is. I could've just as easily put it forward without a source and it'd be no more; or less; valid.

So, no. It is not prostitution, it is just moviemaking with sexual themes. (What, does the sex scene from literally every movie make it prostitution now?)

Not if they faked it. And most certainly, anime would be exempt.

As for the sex strike ones, that's not prostitution that's coercion.

Hardly. Men want something they aren't owed to, women use this right to get demands met.

All in all, 0/10 OP. Not to mention, OP seems to be fixated that only women do this or something. I know for a fact that the porn/bar one goes both ways

Not equally so. A woman doesn't need to liquor to seduce a man. If her advances on him don't convince him on their own, he's probably too scared of the physical risks of sex, in which case a 5 dollar beer isn't going to make or break what's considered worth thousands of dollars of child support bills.

What, if anything, would you consider the "gender-flip" of the porn one?

[New haven america]

-strike-

I pick 7, None of the Above.

Literally, none of these is prostitution. Monogamous relations are when two people agree to be with each other in exchange for nothing. Love is not a form of prostitution. If they're only using each other for sex, then it's not a monogamous relationship. It's friends with benefits with extra steps.

Sugar Daddies/Sugar Mommies are escorts more than anything, which is technically a form of prostitution but I don't really consider it as such.

Child Support Laws... I'm sorry what? Men can't get child support either? Do people not divorce for other reasons besides child support? What?

The bars one I don't even need to explain, but I will. There's a couple of things called being nice or wanting to make a friend. Whenever someone, male or otherwise, gets me a drink at the bar it's normally for those two reasons. You don't just go up to someone, buy them a drink, then go to bed with them.

The pornography one... fucking lol. You used FAMILY GUY as your source. And while yes, you are paying someone for sex, it is not for the enjoyment of the porn actors but those at home. So, no. It is not prostitution, it is just moviemaking with sexual themes. (What, does the sex scene from literally every movie make it prostitution now?)

As for the sex strike ones, that's not prostitution that's coercion.

All in all, 0/10 OP. Not to mention, OP seems to be fixated that only women do this or something. I know for a fact that the porn/bar one goes both ways

Uh, no, wrong way 'roud. Sugar Daddies/Mommies (Of which there are far more daddies than there are mommies) are the Johns/Janes, the Suagr Babies are the prostitutes.

[Hammer Britannia]

Uh, no, wrong way 'roud. Sugar Daddies/Mommies (Of which there are far more daddies than there are mommies) are the Johns/Janes, the Suagr Babies are the prostitutes.

Ah, oops

"Friends With Benefits" relationships are still perfectly legal.

Yes, and?

Then specify a distinction.

Escorts are paid for their time, IE Romantic Dates, prostitutes are straight-up paid for sex

It's her call whether or not to keep the baby in the first place. Men can get child support if they get custody of the kids, but that depends on convincing the system the kids are his, wanting custody, and making it a priority in a system that stacks the deck against him getting custody at all.

Child support is owed if she bears his child. It has nothing to do with "divorce."

You mean, like, if they love their child? It's not a form of prostitution. Also, as you yourself have stated, men can and sometimes will get child support.

Besides, if child support was the goal from the beginning it's not prostitution. It's a form of fraud. Nobody wants to pay child support. Nobody goes up to someone and says "HEY GURL, YOU WANT CHILD SUPPORT?" No, it's something people fight legal battles to avoid

And how often have "friendships" ended in his bitterness that it didn't become something more? (Or possibly hers, if the guy is too obsessed with someone else and/or too afraid of the risks to reciprocate?)

Dude, what world do you live in? Nobody except really, really, clingy incels and shit get angry because a relationship "Doesn't become something more". I'm Bi, do you think I get pissed at all of my bar friends or some shit?

Oh, that's convenient. So paying someone to have sex with you is a crime, paying someone to have sex with someone else is perfectly legal?

It's a form of entertainment medium, yes. Guess what? Both parties get paid! It's an act! It's not some pleasureful night of fun, it's a fictional movie with penetration. It has scripts, it has retakes, bloopers, it has everything a movie or TV show has. So, tell me, why is it prostitution and not a fictitious form of entertainment?

Being that my argument revolves around the very definitions of pornography and prostitution rather than any sort of assumptions, it doesn't matter what my source is. I could've just as easily put it forward without a source and it'd be no more; or less; valid.

It's still bizarre

Not if they faked it. And most certainly, anime would be exempt.

All of them are fake. They may actually penetrate, but they are still scripted events.

Hardly. Men want something they aren't owed to, women use this right to get demands met.

Not to stoop to your level, What do you call 'depriving someone of something someone wants?'

And again with the sexism! Do you think men can't manipulate sex-starved men and women too?

Not equally so. A woman doesn't need to liquor to seduce a man. If her advances on him don't convince him on their own, he's probably too scared of the physical risks of sex, in which case a 5 dollar beer isn't going to make or break what's considered worth thousands of dollars of child support bills.

Do homosexual people not exist? Do chaste men not exist? It always goes on both ends of the spectrum when it comes to this shit. There are plenty of manipulative women who act just like the men you're describing and the reverse too. Women can buy men's drinks, Men can go on 'Sex strikes', lesbians can file for child support, gay men can be sugar daddies.

It appears that prostitution isn't the one with the double standards, but it's you.

What, if anything, would you consider the "gender-flip" of the porn one?

They're both paid! There is no such thing as a 'gender-flip' version

[Vetalia]

Here's an interesting question to ponder - if I paid a male and female prostitute to have sex with each other while I watched, would it be a criminal offense?

[Drongonia]

Here's an interesting question to ponder - if I paid a male and female prostitute to have sex with each other while I watched, would it be a criminal offense?

You could probably say it's a private live-action porn movie and it'd be fine.

[Nakena]

Here's an interesting question to ponder - if I paid a male and female prostitute to have sex with each other while I watched, would it be a criminal offense?

Possibly due your financial involvement and thus making it happen, it could be depending on the jurisdiction.

[Vetalia]

Here's an interesting question to ponder - if I paid a male and female prostitute to have sex with each other while I watched, would it be a criminal offense?

You could probably say it's a private live-action porn movie and it'd be fine.

Let's say in this case I got busted by a cop in the act of "solicitation" of one of the prostitutes.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Yes, and?

And a distinction between "perfectly legal" and "punishable by incarceration/warranting of a criminal record" requires a SIGNIFICANT distinction in the differences used to justify them.

Escorts are paid for their time, IE Romantic Dates, prostitutes are straight-up paid for sex

Again, you're still paying for sex, it's just that the package deal includes other things too. Not sure if any of the supposed reasons to criminalize prostitution warrant an exception for such a "package deal."

You mean, like, if they love their child? It's not a form of prostitution. Also, as you yourself have stated, men can and sometimes will get child support.

They don't know whether or not it's their child. They might not even want to let themselves love their child even if they do, as this would shield the mother from the natural consequences of lying about whether or not she intends to abort, causing her to do so to the next guy, let alone cause him to have to drop out of college and therefore never make enough money to support the child anyway.

Besides, if child support was the goal from the beginning it's not prostitution. It's a form of fraud. Nobody wants to pay child support. Nobody goes up to someone and says "HEY GURL, YOU WANT CHILD SUPPORT?" No, it's something people fight legal battles to avoid

True, but males are nonetheless horny enough to risk being a "dead-broke dad" for it.

Dude, what world do you live in? Nobody except really, really, clingy incels and shit get angry because a relationship "Doesn't become something more".

Clingy incels are just a more extreme version of the usual mild bitterness at being "friendzoned." It would not be such a common word had it not been such a common complaint.

I'm Bi, do you think I get pissed at all of my bar friends or some shit?

Doesn't matter. It's the internet. No one here can prove themselves sincere, and personal experience doesn't always correspond precisely 1:1 to the big picture anyway.

It's a form of entertainment medium, yes. Guess what? Both parties get paid! It's an act! It's not some pleasureful night of fun, it's a fictional movie with penetration.

Fictional movie filmed using real-life penetration.

If an action movie flips a real-life truck for the purposes of filming it, is that "an act" too?

It's still bizarre

What's bizarre? The argument itself or the fact that I quoted a show that's already known to be oft-quoted on this matter?

All of them are fake. They may actually penetrate, but they are still scripted events.

So "fake" means "planned" in your imaginary dictionary? I guess the Dark Knight truck flip was "fake" because it was planned?

Not to stoop to your level,

Don't flatter yourself. You're misusing words' definitions, and trivializing the distinction between things so heavily criminalized people have been put on the chain gang for them and things that aren't criminalized at all. You tell me what's morally comparable to that. I'll wait.

What do you call 'depriving someone of something someone wants?'

How many definitions do you think that phrase has?

And again with the sexism! Do you think men can't manipulate sex-starved men and women too?

Cite me a gender-flipped example of a sex strike. I'll wait.

Do homosexual people not exist?

If a biology textbook says the human body has 2 arms and 2 legs, are they saying people with missing limbs do not exist?

I'm describing the average person here, not the outliers. Homosexuals are statistically outliers in the norms of human sexuality. That's not being "heteronormative," that's being honest. Get over it.

Do chaste men not exist?

Hard to prove either way. I reckon I come closer than most. My "too obsessed with one girl to be tempted by other girls' flirting with me" phase is an exception to the "eggs are expensive, sperm are cheap" narrative, and yet, its detractors are more inclined to assume I'm speaking from experience than its supporters are. I have no choice but to assume the narrative is true.

It appears that prostitution isn't the one with the double standards, but it's you.

When you can get me on jailing one person over the same thing I leave others completely unpunished for, you let me know.

They're both paid! There is no such thing as a 'gender-flip' version

Both prostitution's criminalization; and the compelled speech that is the "this site is not intended for viewers under 18" requirement; are advocated for primarily on the basis specifically of accusation of exploitation of women. The ones calling it exploitation do not specify whether they consider it less exploitative of men or consider that aspect of it less relevant. Either way, gender is inseparably linked from any comparison or contrast between those things, each other, and everything else on the list.

[New haven america]

Here's an interesting question to ponder - if I paid a male and female prostitute to have sex with each other while I watched, would it be a criminal offense?

Yes.

You're still paying for sex, which unless is being done for the purposes of porn production and had the legal paperwork filed, is still illegal in most of the US.

[Sundiata]

Well, I support marriage and sex within it.

I don't support pornography, casual sex, prostitution, or any arrangements outside of marriage. I think it's time that men and women start seeing one another as husband and wife. It's so degrading to prostitute oneself or buy a prostitute, to be reduced to such activity is so shameful. Human beings are so much more beautiful than their physical parts.

To love and be in love is our purpose, may the love of husbands and wives elevate into the highest.

Amen.

[New haven america]

Well, I support marriage and sex within it.

I don't support pornography, casual sex, prostitution, or any arrangements outside of marriage. I think it's time that men and women start seeing one another as husband and wife. It's so degrading to prostitute oneself or to buy a prostitute, to be reduced to such activity is so shameful. Human beings are so much more beautiful than their physical parts.

To love and be in love is our purpose, may the love of husbands and wives elevate into the highest.

Amen.

I mean, prostitutes generally don't like it when clients start wanting relationships from them, so the likelihood of that happening is pretty slim. It doesn't matter how real the GF/Wife experience might be.

But don't let that stop you, I'm sure you'll find a good prostitute wife someday.

[Sundiata]

Well, I support marriage and sex within it.

I don't support pornography, casual sex, prostitution, or any arrangements outside of marriage. I think it's time that men and women start seeing one another as husband and wife. It's so degrading to prostitute oneself or to buy a prostitute, to be reduced to such activity is so shameful. Human beings are so much more beautiful than their physical parts.

To love and be in love is our purpose, may the love of husbands and wives elevate into the highest.

Amen.

I mean, prostitutes generally don't like it when clients start wanting relationships from them, so the likelihood of that happening is pretty slim.

But don't let that stop you, I'm sure you'll find a good prostitute wife someday.

You'll be in my prayers.

Men and women shouldn't be paying for prostitutes or prostituting themselves. It's unbecoming of us and our beauty. When it comes to finding a good wife for any man, it's ultimately the will of the Lord.

[New haven america]

I mean, prostitutes generally don't like it when clients start wanting relationships from them, so the likelihood of that happening is pretty slim.

But don't let that stop you, I'm sure you'll find a good prostitute wife someday.

1. You'll be in my prayers.

2. Men and women shouldn't be paying for prostitutes or prostituting themselves. 3. It's unbecoming of us and our beauty. When it comes to finding a good wife, it's ultimately the will of the lord.

1. I hope not.
2. This is the exact opposite lessen Jesus tried to teach. Have you actually ever read the Bible? (Hint: Look up Luke, Matthew, and Mary Magdalene)
3. Refer to point 2

[Sundiata]

1. You'll be in my prayers.

2. Men and women shouldn't be paying for prostitutes or prostituting themselves. 3. It's unbecoming of us and our beauty. When it comes to finding a good wife, it's ultimately the will of the lord.

1. I hope not.
2. This is the exact opposite lessen Jesus tried to teach. Have you actually ever read the Bible? (Hint: Look up Luke, Matthew, and Mary Magdalene)
3. Refer to point 2

Nonsense.

There's nothing wrong with treating prostitutes compassionately. They are human beings and deserve nothing less. However, to pay prostitutes for sexual acts is a grave moral failure and harmful towards everyone involved.

[Samadhi]

1. I hope not.
2. This is the exact opposite lessen Jesus tried to teach. Have you actually ever read the Bible? (Hint: Look up Luke, Matthew, and Mary Magdalene)
3. Refer to point 2

Nonsense.

There's nothing wrong with treating prostitutes compassionately. They are human beings and deserve nothing less. However, to pay prostitutes for sexual acts is a grave moral failure and harmful towards everyone involved.

I'm going to take your grand moral failure, do a cam show with it, assorted vegetables, David Hasslehoff and a donkey and still be suffering less harm than you.

[Sundiata]

Nonsense.

There's nothing wrong with treating prostitutes compassionately. They are human beings and deserve nothing less. However, to pay prostitutes for sexual acts is a grave moral failure and harmful towards everyone involved.

I'm going to take your grand moral failure, do a cam show with it, assorted vegetables, David Hasslehoff and a donkey and still be suffering less harm than you.

It's not my place to judge you for it. Anyway, you don't have to succumb to degrading lows like that. You have more potential than that.

Don't sell yourself short, you are lovely whether or not you see it now.

[Elwher]

As a libertarian, I have to believe that my opinion on an act should not be the basis for its legality.
A good friend of mine, who is an excellent cook, has gone through a series of dead end jobs. I suggested that he consider playing to his strong suit and take up cooking as a profession. His reason not to do so was that he enjoyed cooking what and when he wanted and would find cooking to order distasteful. That, to me, is an excellent reason for him to not cook professionally, but not a reason to make cooking professionally illegal. Likewise, the fact that some people, myself included, would find having sex on demand with whoever paid for it distasteful is an excellent reason for us not to take up the sex trade, but no reason to make the sex trade illegal.

[Samadhi]

I'm going to take your grand moral failure, do a cam show with it, assorted vegetables, David Hasslehoff and a donkey and still be suffering less harm than you.

It's not my place to judge you for it. Anyway, you don't have to succumb to degrading lows like that. You have more potential than that.

Don't sell yourself short, you are lovely whether or not you see it now.

I'd have made 4-6 thousand off a show like that. There's no selling short. And there's nothing degrading. Or even low. It's a service like any other.

Of course I'm lovely, I'm fucking adorable.

[Sundiata]

It's not my place to judge you for it. Anyway, you don't have to succumb to degrading lows like that. You have more potential than that.

Don't sell yourself short, you are lovely whether or not you see it now.

I'd have made 4-6 thousand off a show like that. There's no selling short. And there's nothing degrading. Or even low. It's a service like any other.

Of course I'm lovely, I'm fucking adorable.

Dear, it's not just your appearance that makes you lovely, it's your shared likeness with God.

You can make money without degrading yourself. You can become a CEO, an engineer, an astronaut. Instead of a few thousand dollars, you can make millions of dollars through the use of your reason: space exploration, investing, industry. Those millions of dollars that you make can be used to cure cancer, provide shelter to the homeless, and food to the hungry.

The impact of a beautiful body pales in comparison to the impact of a beautiful mind.