How can you not be christian?

[1337tonia]

How can I not be a Christian? Let me answer your question, with yet another question. What is 2+2? Oh, I'm sorry, I thought we were asking questions that had obvious answers...being religious is a choice.

Actually, there are reasons to assume that "being religious" is largely genetic.
Of course, which religion one picks is a choice.

I'd like to say first, I love Stephen Lynch
Secondly, that's a fair point, I'm glad to see there are intelligent debaters here. It could possibly be genetic, but no one knows for sure. That's another debate in itself, but either way, this is still a question with an obvious answer. I don't have to be what you want me to be, I don't have to practice what religion you want me to practice. The more you try and force it on people, the more they resist.

I'm pretty sure religion is not genetic. It's taught. Like racism, all it does is get in the way of politics and the economy because it's brought down through generations by word, not by blood. Yes, there are extreme cases where those of a particular religious following have children with only those of the same belief, and over the course of thousands of years, tey adopt specific genetic traits, but those cases are few and far between. In fact, I know of only one, but there may be others I don't know about. Still, if the child of a couple who believe in this faith feels so strongly about another belief, he can convert. I cannot convert to another race. I cannot convert to other bodily features. Those are genetic traits and irreversible by natural means.

Nevertheless, I strongly agree with the statement in bold.

[Akosha]

How can I not be a christian? simple christians are obnoxious little freaks. i am no such fool to believe that some god will save my soul when it already rests with Lord Lucifer.

My eyes... they hurt from rolling.

[Treznor]

How can I not be a Christian? Let me answer your question, with yet another question. What is 2+2? Oh, I'm sorry, I thought we were asking questions that had obvious answers...being religious is a choice.

Actually, there are reasons to assume that "being religious" is largely genetic.
Of course, which religion one picks is a choice.

I'd like to say first, I love Stephen Lynch
Secondly, that's a fair point, I'm glad to see there are intelligent debaters here. It could possibly be genetic, but no one knows for sure. That's another debate in itself, but either way, this is still a question with an obvious answer. I don't have to be what you want me to be, I don't have to practice what religion you want me to practice. The more you try and force it on people, the more they resist.

I'm pretty sure religion is not genetic. It's taught. Like racism, all it does is get in the way of politics and the economy because it's brought down through generations by word, not by blood. Yes, there are extreme cases where those of a particular religious following have children with only those of the same belief, and over the course of thousands of years, tey adopt specific genetic traits, but those cases are few and far between. In fact, I know of only one, but there may be others I don't know about. Still, if the child of a couple who believe in this faith feels so strongly about another belief, he can convert. I cannot convert to another race. I cannot convert to other bodily features. Those are genetic traits and irreversible by natural means.

Nevertheless, I strongly agree with the statement in bold.

This is a slight red herring. No, religion isn't genetic. The disposition to believe things without waiting for concrete proof is. That's what they talk about when scientists discuss the gene that makes people want to believe in God. As was already mentioned, it was a valuable survival trait when reacting quickly to unknown dangers on the savanna could save your life and your fellows.

[Akosha]

How can I not be a Christian? Let me answer your question, with yet another question. What is 2+2? Oh, I'm sorry, I thought we were asking questions that had obvious answers...being religious is a choice.

Actually, there are reasons to assume that "being religious" is largely genetic.
Of course, which religion one picks is a choice.

I'd like to say first, I love Stephen Lynch
Secondly, that's a fair point, I'm glad to see there are intelligent debaters here. It could possibly be genetic, but no one knows for sure. That's another debate in itself, but either way, this is still a question with an obvious answer. I don't have to be what you want me to be, I don't have to practice what religion you want me to practice. The more you try and force it on people, the more they resist.

I'm pretty sure religion is not genetic. It's taught. Like racism, all it does is get in the way of politics and the economy because it's brought down through generations by word, not by blood. Yes, there are extreme cases where those of a particular religious following have children with only those of the same belief, and over the course of thousands of years, tey adopt specific genetic traits, but those cases are few and far between. In fact, I know of only one, but there may be others I don't know about. Still, if the child of a couple who believe in this faith feels so strongly about another belief, he can convert. I cannot convert to another race. I cannot convert to other bodily features. Those are genetic traits and irreversible by natural means.

Nevertheless, I strongly agree with the statement in bold.

Actually there's evidence to suggest that a predisposition to racism is genetic as well. Again, as with religion it does not determine how or to whom you will be racist, it just emphasizes the natural human tendancy towards kin-group selection.

[Gift-of-god]

The God gene is not accepted as scientifically accurate. Even the person who discovered it says that it is a misnomer and that it does not indicate that spirituality is hard-wired.

At most, VMAT2 influences the rate at which certain brain chemicals that have been associated with religious experiences are processed by the brain.

This quote says it all:

Carl Zimmer claimed that, given the low explanatory power of VMAT2, it would have been more accurate for Hamer to call his book A Gene That Accounts for Less Than One Percent of the Variance Found in Scores on Psychological Questionnaires Designed to Measure a Factor Called Self-Transcendence, Which Can Signify Everything from Belonging to the Green Party to Believing in ESP, According to One Unpublished, Unreplicated Study.. However Hamer notes that the importance of the VMAT2 finding is not that it explains all spiritual or religious feelings, but rather that it points the way toward one neurobiological pathway that may be important

I would like to point out that Hamer, the author of the book, seems to be much more circumspect in his claims than the media would suggest.

[Akosha]

The God gene is not accepted as scientifically accurate. Even the person who discovered it says that it is a misnomer and that it does not indicate that spirituality is hard-wired.

At most, VMAT2 influences the rate at which certain brain chemicals that have been associated with religious experiences are processed by the brain.

This quote says it all:

Carl Zimmer claimed that, given the low explanatory power of VMAT2, it would have been more accurate for Hamer to call his book A Gene That Accounts for Less Than One Percent of the Variance Found in Scores on Psychological Questionnaires Designed to Measure a Factor Called Self-Transcendence, Which Can Signify Everything from Belonging to the Green Party to Believing in ESP, According to One Unpublished, Unreplicated Study.. However Hamer notes that the importance of the VMAT2 finding is not that it explains all spiritual or religious feelings, but rather that it points the way toward one neurobiological pathway that may be important

I would like to point out that Hamer, the author of the book, seems to be much more circumspect in his claims than the media would suggest.

And yet again I find myself agreeing with... was it Dorothy?

In any case ^^ This.

[Minotzia]

Good lord, this thread is still going on? I don't think the original poster has posted anything in the last four pages... perhaps they gave up? Oh well.

I, personally, am Buddhist. I was raised Christian, but the older I got, the less sense things made. Why would an omnipotent, omniscient god give people free will, then punish them for exercising it? Besides that, contradictory evidence (like the fossil record, among other things) just couldn't be ignored, since I am an exceedingly logical person (I've been called Spock a few times in my day... even in high school!). Buddhism made a lot more sense to me. It doesn't acknowledge the existence of any gods, and it's philosophy is a lot more rational. There's no "if you have impure thoughts you'll burn in hell" rule, because Buddhists realize that sexuality is natural part of being a human. As long as you don't use your sexuality to harm others, there's nothing wrong with it. That's one of the core principals of Buddhism, along with "do not say what is not so," "do not take what is not given," "do no harm unto other living creatures," and "do not cloud your mind with intoxicants". While I have an awful time with that last one (I love me a good Smirnoff), I think those are some pretty good concepts to live by. True, the Ten Commandments of Christianity cover those things as well, but the first half of the commandments are all about not worshipping other gods and not taking his name in vain and stuff like that. A little self-centered, no? Anyways, that's my take on the subject.

Actually Buddhism recognizes the existence of many gods, some branches include Jesus/YHWH as well. They just see gods as higher forms of existence which are still stuck in the cycle of reincarnation, even though they have miraculous powers and live extremely long times. Even Buddhism itself elevates some people to the status equivalent to deities, with a bodhisattva (which some branches consider Jesus to be) performing the same role, especially in the case of Pure Land Buddhism. Pure Landers don't seek Enlightenment, they just want eternal (as close as they can get anyways) happiness, which to achieve they must say a prayer about a particular bodhisattva (I cannot recall which in particular) a certain amount of times per day and they are guaranteed entry to paradise.

Roman Catholic here, BTW.

[Coccygia]

* Shoots Jehovah in the gut * "It was easy."

[South Norwega]

* Shoots Jehovah in the gut * "It was easy."

You said Jehovah! *stones*

[Coccygia]

* Shoots Jehovah in the gut * "It was easy."

You said Jehovah! *stones*

So did you!! *stones*

[Threlizdun]

HOLY HELL THIS IS STILL GOING?!?! I POSTED ON THIS ABOUT A MONTH AGO!

[Lunas Verde]

Actually Buddhism recognizes the existence of many gods, some branches include Jesus/YHWH as well. They just see gods as higher forms of existence which are still stuck in the cycle of reincarnation, even though they have miraculous powers and live extremely long times. Even Buddhism itself elevates some people to the status equivalent to deities, with a bodhisattva (which some branches consider Jesus to be) performing the same role, especially in the case of Pure Land Buddhism. Pure Landers don't seek Enlightenment, they just want eternal (as close as they can get anyways) happiness, which to achieve they must say a prayer about a particular bodhisattva (I cannot recall which in particular) a certain amount of times per day and they are guaranteed entry to paradise.

Roman Catholic here, BTW.

Perhaps I should have rephrased. Buddhism doesn't officially confirm or deny the existence of any god. There are some practitioners that choose to worship certain gods, and more who don't. It's all about who you ask. And Bodhisvattas aren't gods, they are enlightened. They're admired as teachers, not worshipped as gods. As far as your Pure Land Buddhism, I question whether that's actually Buddhism at all. That's kind of the whole point of the philosophy: to reach enlightenment. According to Siddhartha Gautama (the founder of Buddhism as a philosophy), paradise doesn't exist. After a certain point, nothing exists. Enlightenment is only escaping samsara, the endless cycle of suffering.

[Unilisia]

My question is how can you not be christian. People who are athiest, I believe say there is no god as an excuse for them to get away wiht something they know is a sin. Also people say why doesnt god just show himself and my answer to that is Faith. What use what it be if god just showed himself to everyone and then everyone just switched to christian, God wants people who have faith and are loyal not people who see him and then suddenly believe. Also Athiest who dont belive in god explain to me about ghosts then? Dont say thier not real either because my dad and stepmother have both seen demons, and if you want to know about it i would be more than happy to explain.

Also people who belive Obama is the Anti-Christ, I can see this to some point because in the bible it says that the Anti-Christ will try to make peace wiht everyone and be a nice handsome smooth talker whihc obama is so yes i can see obama being the anti-christ. But i wouldnt freak out about it because if your saved then you will go to heaven. just like 2012 why freak out when you will be going to a better place thats why i think the people who freak out about it are the ones who are worried because they no about the sins they have committed.


Also all of these different religons like catholics, prodestants and judism and all the others i think are in my opinion are not needed because all you have to do is belive in god and the virgin marry and that jesus gave his sins for us, also god didnt make religon, humans made religon in thier own way that they seen fit. For example reilgon is formed like a club and then one day a member form that club doesnt like the ideas of it so then they go and make thier own club meaning religon. But really all you have to do is belive in virgin marry, jesus sacrifice and belive in god as your heavenly father and you will go to heaven.

Im not a perfect christian, no one is infact ive had my doubts but after talking wiht my Step Mom and my Dad and thinking about the miracles that have happened to me i do belive there is a god and thats called faith. So please anyone is welcome to comment but do not argue or make stupid comments or make fun of anyones religon. This is meant to be a discussion not a argument about which religon is better or calling someone stupid because of thier beliefs.

Why do you religious guys ALWAYS bring up the same topic OVER AND OVER. Deal with human differences, don't be a discriminate zealot, and hush please.

[The Corparation]

* Shoots Jehovah in the gut * "It was easy."

You said Jehovah! *stones*

You said Jehovah too, Blasphemy!

[Dyakovo]

Damn, over 60 pages?
Successful troll is successful?

How about when successful troll, inadvertently or intentionally, invites a cadre of thread hijackers and off-topic artisans who subtly or overtly shift the initial effort?

Well, here is the result.

So who hoists the banner of success?

You and me.

[Dyakovo]

Honestly, how the fuck can you be a rational, educated person and be a Christian?

you can be educated christian
you can be a rational christian
but not both at the same time

Why not?

[Jeymz]

Because there is no evidence for god?
Because so much scientific evidence now stands against the bible?
Because the bible is just an interpretation, NOT the word of god?
Because the bible has been edited/mistranslated on hundereds of occasions over the last 2000 years?
Because some of the worst atrocities this Earth has ever seen, have been commited in the name of Christianity, and discrimination spouted from Christianity still continues?
I dont mean to offend Christians, at all. I just personally can't see why someone would believe it. If they want to follow christianity, I'm cool with that. It's just not for me.

[The Alma Mater]

If they want to follow christianity, I'm cool with that.

Why though ? People worshipping and idolising something like as vile the Chirstian God as the summum of beauty and love is... scary
IMO.

[Treznor]

If they want to follow christianity, I'm cool with that.

Why though ? People worshipping and idolising something like as vile the Chirstian God as the summum of beauty and love is... scary
IMO.

I agree. But it doesn't negate their right to view something as vile as the Christian god as beautiful.

[1337tonia]

Actually there's evidence to suggest that a predisposition to racism is genetic as well. Again, as with religion it does not determine how or to whom you will be racist, it just emphasizes the natural human tendancy towards kin-group selection.

This is probably why I passed genetics with a C- after semester exams during my junior year of high school. Punnet squares ftl.

[Jeymz]

If they want to follow christianity, I'm cool with that.

Why though ? People worshipping and idolising something like as vile the Chirstian God as the summum of beauty and love is... scary
IMO.

I find it twisted, strange and scary too.
But i guess I feel i should support peoples human right to believe what they want to.
When that starts interfering with my life though, i dont half let people know about it

[Allbeama]

To the Original Postah:

Your religion holds that you should not worship false gods. The atheist has merely taken that premise to its logical conclusion. It just so happens to be against what the creators of the religion had in mind. Logic is generally very good at undermining the lies and fantasies of the world's religions.

Sin-cerely,
Allbeama
Resident Atheist.

[Dyakovo]

If they want to follow christianity, I'm cool with that.

Why though ? People worshipping and idolising something like as vile the Chirstian God as the summum of beauty and love is... scary
IMO.

The christian god isn't necessarily vile...

[The Imperial Navy]

HOLY HELL THIS IS STILL GOING?!?! I POSTED ON THIS ABOUT A MONTH AGO!

Impressive... most impressive. But you are not a Jedi yet.

[The Alma Mater]

If they want to follow christianity, I'm cool with that.

Why though ? People worshipping and idolising something like as vile the Chirstian God as the summum of beauty and love is... scary
IMO.

The christian god isn't necessarily vile...

Because a central doctrine of Christianity is "God is good" ?
Sorry. Not convincing.