[SUBMITTED] The Old Metric

by **Shwe Tu Colony** » Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:55 pm

Underlined phrases are my own comments & notes & orange words are changes from the previous draft. If just the option & its number is orange, then a whole new option has been introduced.

Title: The Old Metric
Validity: Nations who have switched to the metric system.
Description: While switching over to the metric system has certainly benefited your scientists and other such intellectuals, the common populace, as it turns out, are finding issues with it.

Option 1: "It's such a headache!" complains @@RANDOMNAME@@, a chef and one of the citizens who was against the conversion to the metric system."For example, just how much of a spoon does a few things of sugar occupy, and how do you expect me to quickly calculate how much broth I need when the measurement isn't straight from the box itself? @@LEADER@@, I urge you to abandon the scientific folk and reinstate the usage of our old system. If they want to use the metric system, let them, but don't expect me to suffer for them! Plus, it's not the same drinking anything anymore; I have to get decimals of a bottle just to get the perfect amount."
Fallout 1: scientists and average citizens have difficulty translating between their different measurements (removes metric system policy)

Option 2: "They don't want to comply?" questions scientist @@RANDOMNAME@@, ... a devout follower of the metric system that never learned the previous system of @@NATION@@."Let's be honest here, who's more important: the average citizens, or the people like me, who are sacrificing our time for everyone else to live luxuriously in new technology or to cure diseases? ... It's not that hard to use the metric system! In fact, we should enforce the metric system on these lazy hooligans with mandatory classes to reeducate them."
Fallout 2: the previous system of @@NATION@@ only exists in history ...

Option 3: "If it apparently takes so much time to switch between this measurement and that, this issue is clearly an educational one," states @@RANDOMNAME@@, a famed math teacher at @@CAPITAL@@ University. "If we further reinforce the teaching of mathematics in schools, our next generations will be able to calculate between any system of measurement at lightning speed! Why, we may even be able to outpace a calculator soon enough."
Fallout 3: children can easily identify how many parts of an oka they'll receive in "pay for a pound and we'll give you a kilogram" promotions

Option 4: "Well, if we either have to make the scientists suffer or the common people suffer... I have another idea," suggests your Minister of Creative Solutions. "Clearly we can't satisfy everyone with the metric system, and there was that disaster when we had an error in conversions. Instead of having one universal measurement system, why not let every occupation have their own? A chef can have a spoon, a construction worker a beam, and the scientists can keep their metric system. In other words, they'll be using the commonly-used objects they work with."
Fallout 4: conversions are needed for anything @@AN@@ @@DEMONYM@@ does

Option 5: "Alternatively, let's just have everything labeled with any measurement systems!" shouts a doppelgänger who looks exactly like your Minister of Creative Solutions. "Don't know how much to pour from that carton of milk in your recipe? Now you can get that quantity in four different ways! Nobody from anywhere will ever get confused, because their own measurement systems, alongside metric and ours, will be on anything that needs it."
Fallout 5: most of the space in objects sold in @@NATION@@ is occupied by measurements

Title: The Old Metric
Validity: Nations who have switched to the metric system.
Description: While switching over to the metric system has certainly benefited your scientists and other such intellectuals, the common populace, as it turns out, are finding issues with it.

Option 1: "It's such a headache ...!" complains @@RANDOMNAME@@, a chef and one of the citizens who was against conversion to the metric system, "When I cook, I have to deal with these strange new measurements on my instructions. Just how much of a spoon does a few things of sugar occupy, and how do you expect me to quickly calculate how much wine I need when the measurement isn't straight from the cask itself? @@LEADER@@, I urge you to abandon the scientific folk and reinstate the usage of our old system. If they want to use the metric system, let them, but don't expect me to suffer for them! Plus, it's not the same drinking my alcoholic beverages anymore, I have to get decimals of a drink just to get the perfect amount."
Fallout 1: scientists and average citizens have difficulty translating between their different measurements (removes metric system policy)

Option 2: "They don't want to comply?" questions scientist @@RANDOMNAME@@, who is a devout follower of the metric system that never learned the previous system of @@NATION@@, "Let's be honest here, who's more important: the average citizens, or the people like me, who are sacrificing our time for everyone else to live luxuriously in new technology or to cure diseases. The chefs can always just use measuring cups if they don't like the metric system, after all. It's not that hard! In fact, we should enforce the metric system on these lazy hooligans with mandatory classes to reeducate them."
Fallout 2: the previous system of @@NATION@@ will only be mentioned in history books due to metric system reeducation classes
(this needs improvement)

Option 3: "Well, if we either have to make the scientists suffer or the common people suffer... I have another idea," suggests your Minister of Creative Solutions, "Clearly we can't satisfy everyone with the metric system, and there was that disaster when we had an error in conversions. Instead of having one universal measurement system, why not let every occupation have their own? A chef can have a spoon, a construction worker a beam, and the scientists can keep their metric system. In other words, they'll be using the commonly-used objects they work with."
Fallout 3: conversions are needed for anything @@AN@@ @@DEMONYM@@ does

Option 4: "Alternatively, let's just have everything labeled with any measurement systems!" shouts a doppelgänger who looks exactly like your Minister of Creative Solutions, "Don't know how much to pour from that carton of milk in your recipe? Now you can get that quantity in four different ways! Nobody from anywhere will ever get confused, because their own measurement systems, alongside metric and ours, will be on anything that needs it."
Fallout 4: most of the space in objects sold in @@NATION@@ is occupied by measurements

Option 5: "If it apparently takes so much time to switch between this measurement and that, this issue is clearly an educational one," states @@RANDOMNAME@@, a famed math teacher at @@CAPITAL@@ University, "If we further reinforce the teaching of mathematics in schools, our next generations will be able to calculate between any system of measurement at lightning speed! Why, we may even be able to outpace a calculator soon enough."
Fallout 5: children can easily identify how many parts of an oka they'll receive in "pay for a pound and we'll give you a kilogram" promotions

by **Trotterdam** » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:18 pm

The problem is that this only makes sense shortly after adopting metric. If it's been a while, people should have gotten used to it.

by **Shwe Tu Colony** » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:34 am

Trotterdam wrote:The problem is that this only makes sense shortly after adopting metric. If it's been a while, people should have gotten used to it.

They'll get used to it, but their measurements match their tools, for example a teaspoon being an actual teaspoon, but with the metric system it may not fit perfectly onto it.

by **Baggieland** » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:22 am

Hi Shwe, I was going to do this one myself, but you've beaten me to it.

Trotterdam wrote:The problem is that this only makes sense shortly after adopting metric. If it's been a while, people should have gotten used to it.

The UK switched to metric around 1969. I was born a couple of years later (oops, showing my age there), I was taught only metric at school, however, almost everything outside of school was still in imperial measurements. So everything I learned at school wasn't backed up outside of school. And everything outside of school wasn't taught in school. As a result of this, I have gone through my whole life totally messed up when it comes to weights and measurements. Example: I can picture someone 6ft tall, but I can't picture someone 170cms tall, however, I can picture 1 metre in length, I can't picture 1 yard in length. All my life messed up like this because the UK changed to metric. I wish they hadn't! Even though it's been more than 40 years since the change, the UK still isn't 100% metric. Distances are still in miles, for example.

Shwe, this was the angle I was going to use for reversing the policy on going metric.

If you want to use it in your draft, please feel free.

by **Kenmoria** » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:00 am

I would recommend adding a third option - they're so commonplace nowadays it would be strange not to have one. Perhaps someone recommending that everything is measured in five different systems to be sure everyone understands it.

by **Jutsa** » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:02 am

Funnily enough, that'd pretty much be the tactic the U.S. is doing. (at least when I went to school)

by **Tengania** » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:06 am

Yes, that would make sense. Most issues have at least three different choices depending on the type of issue. For a we-want-to-get-rid-of-this or we-want-to-have-this situation, there is usually a "let's get it" choice, an "abolish it" choice, and some sort of in-between "let's keep some of it".

by **Jutsa** » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:53 am

And that final choice is usually a very oddball compromise. That being said, that's not how it always works,
and there are some rather good issues with only two options if you really didn't want to add a third one.
(although I do think the one proposed would work pretty well for this issue.)

by **Trotterdam** » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:22 pm

Baggieland wrote:Even though it's been more than 40 years since the change, the UK still isn't 100% metric.

That sounds like incompetence in implementation, not a problem inherent to the metric system. Most metric countries seem to do fine.

The issue could be retooled to be something like this, with options being:
1. Accept that people are continuing to use traditional units and let them.
2. Better enforcement of the metric system.
3. ...More math education so people can perform conversions quickly?

Using both systems side-by-side is a valid option, but that's still kinda like option 2 (you're still forcing people to use metric, just not forcing them to not use traditional units as well if they feel like using both), so probably not worth distinguishing.

by **Australian rePublic** » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:12 pm

This wouldn't be too much of an issue. Countries which intially switch to the metric system usually do so gradually over time. Canada switched to the metric system c 20 years ago and they still use the US custom/imperial system which is slowly dying. My grandparents, who migrated to Australia before metrification slowly learnt to use the metric system, and from what I read, both units could legally be used for quite a few years. America thinks that if they switch to metric, they will all have to quickly learn and adapt to the metric system, but that's not the case

by **Jutsa** » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:20 pm

Americans are weird. I say that being an American.

Regardless, it's kinda hard to think of any other reason to undo the metric system, and I think it's fine as-is.

Plus, 2 could be an all-out "replace everything using the old system with stuff using the new" to the point that it's basically enforcement of not using the other system,
which would make it keenly distinct from a third "learn better math" option.

by **Shwe Tu Colony** » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:12 am

Kenmoria wrote:I would recommend adding a third option - they're so commonplace nowadays it would be strange not to have one. Perhaps someone recommending that everything is measured in five different systems to be sure everyone understands it.

Suggestion acknowledged twice, first in my slightly incorrect interpretation (everyone gets a different measurement!) & the other time in what you actually said.

Trotterdam wrote:
Baggieland wrote:2. Better enforcement of the metric system.
3. ...More math education so people can perform conversions quickly?

Using both systems side-by-side is a valid option, but that's still kinda like option 2 (you're still forcing people to use metric, just not forcing them to not use traditional units as well if they feel like using both), so probably not worth disting
uishing.

Suggestion acknowledged. (I shut off my laptop & only then did I realize I forgot to get the math education thing. Will add soon™️)

For any other suggestions, I probably looked at them but decided not to include them.

by **Candlewhisper Archive** » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:16 am

I like your approach to this policy, and agree that people could still have trouble adjusting decades later. However, be sure to make sure your writing keeps ambiguity in lengths of time. Don't describe the metric system as "new", for example, or changes as "recent".

I'd note another possible angle on this could come from nostalgic attachment to units of measurement.

For example, in England, while we're mostly metric there'd be absolute horror if beer wasn't served by the pint. Milk, we can go either way, but beer is sacrosanct.

by **Shwe Tu Colony** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:54 pm

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:I like your approach to this policy, and agree that people could still have trouble adjusting decades later. However, be sure to make sure your writing keeps ambiguity in lengths of time. Don't describe the metric system as "new", for example, or changes as "recent".

I'd note another possible angle on this could come from nostalgic attachment to units of measurement.

For example, in England, while we're mostly metric there'd be absolute horror if beer wasn't served by the pint. Milk, we can go either way, but beer is sacrosanct.

Thankee, I researched a bit to figure out what the benefits of the imperial system is (my motto on the internet has become that you can find just about anything, such as the idea that the moon is a hologram). Includede your suggestion as a minor detail in the first option.

by **Australian rePublic** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:46 pm

Shwe Tu Colony wrote:
Trotterdam wrote:The problem is that this only makes sense shortly after adopting metric. If it's been a while, people should have gotten used to it.

They'll get used to it, but their measurements match their tools, for example a teaspoon being an actual teaspoon, but with the metric system it may not fit perfectly onto it.

I find that most items these days (or atleast ones that a tourist would reasonably buy) tend to have both sets of measurements on them

by **Australian rePublic** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:36 pm

Option 4: Children can easily identify how calculate how many free okas they'll recieve in "pay for a kilo and we'll give you a pound" promotions

by **Shwe Tu Colony** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:43 pm

Australian Republic wrote:Option 4: Children can easily identify how calculate how many free okas they'll recieve in "pay for a kilo and we'll give you a pound" promotions

Free okas?

by **Australian rePublic** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:46 pm

Shwe Tu Colony wrote:
Australian Republic wrote:Option 4: Children can easily identify how calculate how many free okas they'll recieve in "pay for a kilo and we'll give you a pound" promotions

Free okas?

Children can often calculate how many Oka (weight) are provided for free in a promotion where you recieve one pound (weight) worth of goods for the price of a kilogram

by **Australian rePublic** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:56 pm

Or rather, what percentage of an oka

by **Shwe Tu Colony** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:08 pm

Australian Republic wrote:Or rather, what percentage of an oka

Suggestion acknowledged.

by **Trotterdam** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:11 pm

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:I'd note another possible angle on this could come from nostalgic attachment to units of measurement.

For example, in England, while we're mostly metric there'd be absolute horror if beer wasn't served by the pint. Milk, we can go either way, but beer is sacrosanct.

I think that after having a few beers, you are no longer in a mental state to take detailed measurements anyway, so it doesn't matter much which units you use

I do understand the nostalgic attachment to some degree though - I'll often use, say, "miles" to describe a generic large distance, even though I'd always give measurements in kilometers if I'm describing a specific distance. The one traditional unit I might use for specific (if approximate) measurements is the "foot", which just happens to be conveniently human-scale, though even then I prefer to work with the "metric foot" of exactly 30 centimeters, and I would be unlikely to use feet to measure anything longer than 1 meter or shorter than 10 centimeters.

Australian Republic wrote:Option 4: Children can easily identify how calculate how many free okas they'll recieve in "pay for a kilo and we'll give you a pound" promotions

Umm, a pound is less than a kilogram?

(Specifically, 0.45359237 kilograms exactly.)

If you're paying for a kilogram and you get a pound, then you're being cheated.

by **Shwe Tu Colony** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:17 pm

Trotterdam";p="33038034"
[quote="Australian Republic wrote:Option 4: Children can easily identify how calculate how many free okas they'll recieve in "pay for a kilo and we'll give you a pound" promotions

Australian Republic wrote:Option 4: Children can easily identify how calculate how many free okas they'll recieve in "pay for a kilo and we'll give you a pound" promotions

Umm, a pound is less than a kilogram?

(Specifically, 0.45359237 kilograms exactly.)

If you're paying for a kilogram and you get a pound, then you're being cheated.[/quote]

Issue acknowledged.

by **Shwe Tu Colony** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:56 pm

Rising like oil in water.

by **Australian rePublic** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:03 pm

Shwe Tu Colony wrote:
Trotterdam";p="33038034"
[quote="Australian Republic wrote:Option 4: Children can easily identify how calculate how many free okas they'll recieve in "pay for a kilo and we'll give you a pound" promotions
Australian Republic wrote:Option 4: Children can easily identify how calculate how many free okas they'll recieve in "pay for a kilo and we'll give you a pound" promotions
Umm, a pound is less than a kilogram?

(Specifically, 0.45359237 kilograms exactly.)

If you're paying for a kilogram and you get a pound, then you're being cheated.

Issue acknowledged.[/quote]
It is too. I confused it with miles and kilometres, and gallons and litres

by **Shwe Tu Colony** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:19 pm

Bump.

[SUBMITTED] The Old Metric

[SUBMITTED] The Old Metric

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