Advertisement
by Sivonaa » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:12 am
by Tekania » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:29 am
Sivonaa wrote:Abortion is Abortion, you are aborting a human life when you choose that decision. Science states that from conception to natural death is a full human life, It does not matter weather or not it feels pain or not. It is a human life being developed. Every hour of every day until birth it is growing and starting to develop human characteristics. There for stopping that natural process is in my mind extremely wrong! In cases of rape I still think abortion should not be allowed, Was it the babies fault that he was concept ed no, so why should he be the one to take the fall? Some people say a fetus has not feeling or is not a real human yet. It is real as soon as sperm meets egg guys. The definition is as follows,"a fetus a developing mammal after the embryonic stage and before birth." So that would classify it as a human that is not fully developed yet. We all are not fully developed until around the age of 25. So what you people who are pro choice are really saying is its OK to murder this very small and completely innocent child. But if you kill a human with a gun on a street it is completely wrong. That makes no sense.
Finally,
It is extremely easy to avoid a situation where you would be given the option of abortion. Don't do it unless your absolutely committed to having a child. Using condoms or other things to prevent sperm from reaching the egg is also an alternative. My god people are so ignorant and lazy these days. Lets have sex and then just kill the baby. Completely wrong and un ethical!!! A child would be much better off alive then dead. I guarantee it.
by Grenartia » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:32 am
Tekania wrote:Sivonaa wrote:Abortion is Abortion, you are aborting a human life when you choose that decision. Science states that from conception to natural death is a full human life, It does not matter weather or not it feels pain or not. It is a human life being developed. Every hour of every day until birth it is growing and starting to develop human characteristics. There for stopping that natural process is in my mind extremely wrong! In cases of rape I still think abortion should not be allowed, Was it the babies fault that he was concept ed no, so why should he be the one to take the fall? Some people say a fetus has not feeling or is not a real human yet. It is real as soon as sperm meets egg guys. The definition is as follows,"a fetus a developing mammal after the embryonic stage and before birth." So that would classify it as a human that is not fully developed yet. We all are not fully developed until around the age of 25. So what you people who are pro choice are really saying is its OK to murder this very small and completely innocent child. But if you kill a human with a gun on a street it is completely wrong. That makes no sense.
Finally,
It is extremely easy to avoid a situation where you would be given the option of abortion. Don't do it unless your absolutely committed to having a child. Using condoms or other things to prevent sperm from reaching the egg is also an alternative. My god people are so ignorant and lazy these days. Lets have sex and then just kill the baby. Completely wrong and un ethical!!! A child would be much better off alive then dead. I guarantee it.
Strawman arguments connected to a demonstrated inability to understand science and human development.
We don't argue that its' not okay to kill armed gun-men in the streets. In fact, it's quite easier to find vocal "Pro-Life" proponents who support the killing of unarmed people than it is to find pro-choice proponents who advocate against a necessary killing of armed-persons engaged in attempting to kill others in public.
Pro-choice isn't about life. We don't argue that there are living cells... The issue is that they are not persons, and that in all cases the full person's rights take precedence over the rights of the non-person. The survival of the mother is more important in any and all cases.
by Norstal » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:33 am
Grenartia wrote:
So when does the fairy turn the fetus into a person?
Toronto Sun wrote:Best poster ever. ★★★★★
New York Times wrote:No one can beat him in debates. 5/5.
IGN wrote:Literally the best game I've ever played. 10/10
NSG Public wrote:What a fucking douchebag.
by Tekania » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:34 am
Grenartia wrote:Tekania wrote:
Strawman arguments connected to a demonstrated inability to understand science and human development.
We don't argue that its' not okay to kill armed gun-men in the streets. In fact, it's quite easier to find vocal "Pro-Life" proponents who support the killing of unarmed people than it is to find pro-choice proponents who advocate against a necessary killing of armed-persons engaged in attempting to kill others in public.
Pro-choice isn't about life. We don't argue that there are living cells... The issue is that they are not persons, and that in all cases the full person's rights take precedence over the rights of the non-person. The survival of the mother is more important in any and all cases.
So when does the fairy turn the fetus into a person?
by Sivonaa » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:36 am
by Grenartia » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:37 am
by Norstal » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:41 am
Grenartia wrote:Norstal wrote:So when does a fairy made it not okay to have sex, get pregnant, and get an abortion?
I never said it wasn't ok not to have sex. I'll be the last person to say that. I'm just saying take some damn responsibility. If you can't afford/don't want a kid, put the woman on the pill, and make the dude wear a condom.
1 oz. Prevention = 1 lb. Cure
Its that fucking simple.
Toronto Sun wrote:Best poster ever. ★★★★★
New York Times wrote:No one can beat him in debates. 5/5.
IGN wrote:Literally the best game I've ever played. 10/10
NSG Public wrote:What a fucking douchebag.
by Bottle » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:42 am
Grenartia wrote:Tekania wrote:
Strawman arguments connected to a demonstrated inability to understand science and human development.
We don't argue that its' not okay to kill armed gun-men in the streets. In fact, it's quite easier to find vocal "Pro-Life" proponents who support the killing of unarmed people than it is to find pro-choice proponents who advocate against a necessary killing of armed-persons engaged in attempting to kill others in public.
Pro-choice isn't about life. We don't argue that there are living cells... The issue is that they are not persons, and that in all cases the full person's rights take precedence over the rights of the non-person. The survival of the mother is more important in any and all cases.
So when does the fairy turn the fetus into a person?
by Bottle » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:45 am
Grenartia wrote:Norstal wrote:So when does a fairy made it not okay to have sex, get pregnant, and get an abortion?
I never said it wasn't ok not to have sex. I'll be the last person to say that. I'm just saying take some damn responsibility. If you can't afford/don't want a kid, put the woman on the pill, and make the dude wear a condom.
1 oz. Prevention = 1 lb. Cure
Its that fucking simple.
by Grenartia » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:48 am
Norstal wrote:Grenartia wrote:I never said it wasn't ok not to have sex. I'll be the last person to say that. I'm just saying take some damn responsibility. If you can't afford/don't want a kid, put the woman on the pill, and make the dude wear a condom.
1 oz. Prevention = 1 lb. Cure
Its that fucking simple.
Hard to use a condom/take pills when you've never heard/learned about it or have access.
And obviously, I'm not talking about first-world countries, but even in those places people still haven't learned about contraceptives.
Bottle wrote:Grenartia wrote:
So when does the fairy turn the fetus into a person?
That's kind of the point:
WOMEN'S BODIES turn it into a person, and they do so through a physically intense process that causes permanent physiological changes to the female body even in the best of cases.
People aren't made by Sperm Magic, wherein a man's magical seed imbues the egg with personhood. People aren't made in an instant, they're made over a long period of time. I spent 6 years studying just one tiny part of that developmental process, and I can't even claim to fully understand the tiny part that I studied. It's beautiful and amazing, and that's why it seems so hilarious and sad to me when people try to brush aside that entire process and claim that a person magically springs into existence the moment an egg is fertilized or the moment a few cells implant in the uterine wall (hint: these do not happen at the same time!).
Given how beautiful and amazing and complicated every human individual is, why should it be so hard to grasp that an equally beautiful and amazing and complicated PROCESS is required to make us?
by Wiztopia » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:36 am
Sivonaa wrote:Abortion is Abortion, you are aborting a human life when you choose that decision. Science states that from conception to natural death is a full human life, It does not matter weather or not it feels pain or not. It is a human life being developed. Every hour of every day until birth it is growing and starting to develop human characteristics. There for stopping that natural process is in my mind extremely wrong! In cases of rape I still think abortion should not be allowed, Was it the babies fault that he was concept ed no, so why should he be the one to take the fall? Some people say a fetus has not feeling or is not a real human yet. It is real as soon as sperm meets egg guys. The definition is as follows,"a fetus a developing mammal after the embryonic stage and before birth." So that would classify it as a human that is not fully developed yet. We all are not fully developed until around the age of 25. So what you people who are pro choice are really saying is its OK to murder this very small and completely innocent child. But if you kill a human with a gun on a street it is completely wrong. That makes no sense.
Finally,
It is extremely easy to avoid a situation where you would be given the option of abortion. Don't do it unless your absolutely committed to having a child. Using condoms or other things to prevent sperm from reaching the egg is also an alternative. My god people are so ignorant and lazy these days. Lets have sex and then just kill the baby. Completely wrong and un ethical!!! A child would be much better off alive then dead. I guarantee it.
by Shikkago » Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:01 am
by Aeronos » Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:10 am
Bottle wrote:Grenartia wrote:I never said it wasn't ok not to have sex. I'll be the last person to say that. I'm just saying take some damn responsibility. If you can't afford/don't want a kid, put the woman on the pill, and make the dude wear a condom.
1 oz. Prevention = 1 lb. Cure
Its that fucking simple.
You gonna provide contraception for free? One in six Americans will struggle with hunger, my friend, so let's not bullshit about this. I can buy a week's worth of groceries for the same amount as a box of condoms. When I was on the Pill, it cost me about a buck a pill, and that's not counting the routine doctor's visits I was required to go to in order to keep getting the 'script refilled.
by Dyakovo » Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:15 am
Grenartia wrote:Wikipedia and Universe wrote:Bias? All I know is that from my experience there are a number of "shades" of pro-choice, while being pro-life is fairly straightforward. Pro-life with exceptions is basically option 3. It's ambiguous so I couldn't decide.
What other options do you want?
I'm just saying, I'm Pro-life for different reasons than the Republicants on TV. They're Pro life for religious reasons. I'm Pro life because the fetus does have a right to live, and while the woman does have the right to do whatever she wants with her body, the fetus's right to live supercedes her right. Simply marking Pro life doesn't make that distinction.
by Keronians » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:44 pm
by Keronians » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:46 pm
Dyakovo wrote:Grenartia wrote:
I'm just saying, I'm Pro-life for different reasons than the Republicants on TV. They're Pro life for religious reasons. I'm Pro life because the fetus does have a right to live, and while the woman does have the right to do whatever she wants with her body, the fetus's right to live supercedes her right. Simply marking Pro life doesn't make that distinction.
Rights are something a person has... A foetus is not a person.
by Norstal » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:50 pm
Toronto Sun wrote:Best poster ever. ★★★★★
New York Times wrote:No one can beat him in debates. 5/5.
IGN wrote:Literally the best game I've ever played. 10/10
NSG Public wrote:What a fucking douchebag.
by Keronians » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:51 pm
by Dyakovo » Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:00 pm
by Keronians » Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:01 pm
by Grenartia » Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:57 pm
Dyakovo wrote:Grenartia wrote:
I'm just saying, I'm Pro-life for different reasons than the Republicants on TV. They're Pro life for religious reasons. I'm Pro life because the fetus does have a right to live, and while the woman does have the right to do whatever she wants with her body, the fetus's right to live supercedes her right. Simply marking Pro life doesn't make that distinction.
Rights are something a person has... A foetus is not a person.
Shikkago wrote:Scientifically, brain function does not begin in a fetus until 5 months, and a fetus is not capable of living outside the mother's body until 6 months. Therefore, human life as an independent entity begins at 6 months.
Ethically, forcing someone to do anything with their body against their will (ie rape) is wrong. So forcing a woman to have a baby she doesn't want (ie a child of rape), isn't capable of supporting while within her body (yes, that's a concern- the fetus draws nutrition from the mother, if the mother is herself struggling to survive this can threaten her survival), or that literally might kill her (as in complications) is wrong.
Pragmatically, if a woman has to prove, at 6 months, that if she doesn't have an abortion she will die, she might find a corrupt or biased court will deny her this right, and she will die because of it, or die waiting.
Also, making something illegal does not prevent people from doing it (ie Prohibition) and creates a dangerous black market, as in the pre-abortion days, which actually kills more people, so you are not saving lives by promoting this.
Politically, we cannot give the government jurisdiction over our bodies. This can have very dangerous implications that may extend to other parts of our lives. What if the government were to force people to have abortions? Wouldn't that be wrong? The reverse is also true. It is dangerous to give away your freedoms in this manner just because you feel others may do something immoral.
Socially, we can discourage abortion several ways:
(1) promoting contraception.
(2) promoting scientific sex education.
(3) promoting non-fertilizing sex practices (hands, mouths, toys).
(3) promoting adoption.
(4) providing aid to women who want to choose adoption.
(5) using your voice.
(6) advancing science so less women's lives are threatened by complications.
So if you really hate abortion, don't pressure the government to restrict our choices and take control over our bodies. And please, don't harass women on their way to the clinic who have already made that difficult choice, possibly because though they wanted a baby they couldn't have one safely, or because they are rape victims. Donate to a charity or to science, advocate for more comprehensive science-based sex education, talk to your friends, adopt a child. All these things will do more to prevent abortions than a law. All a law will do is promote illegal abortions that will kill more people.
by Alixanderia » Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:12 pm
Advertisement
Users browsing this forum: Grinning Dragon, Haganham, Mutualist Chaos, Statesburg, Tungstan, Verska
Advertisement