American Politics Thread V: We're Just Biden Our Time ...

[Atheris]

Weak.

I want Canada to invade America instead.

Unbased. All the countries in the world belong to America.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Because otherwise you get balkanization. People in a community need unity of some kind and if they think of themselves as distinct entities, there will be only distrust at best and violence at worst.

Odd how there have been numerous very successful multi-ethnic states throughout human history that lasted long periods of time. Framing it also in terms of security is also very precarious because there is never enough security so it's not very difficult to start kicking the ball down the hill that leads to greater and greater discrimination.

Multiethnic does not equal full on multiculturalism. You asked why only moderate multiculturalism is acceptable but said multiethnic countries are an example of that. You need unity or you have no society. My community has many members who still haven't really integrated (many of the Albanians) and their separation from others has led to everything from distrust to violence.

[New Jacobland]

CCP: Nationalist, commits genocide
Nazi Germany: Nationalist, commits genocide

See a pattern?

CCP: Originally fought against Kuomintang dictatorship and Japanese hordes, holds relations with numerous countries around the world, doesn't seek to limit religion, isn't led by batshit leaders that want to conquer the world.

Nazi Germany: Originally was created based on legitimate hatred of Western Powers and made-up hatred of Jews, held relationships only with it's collaborator countries, seeked to destroy religion and sought to slaughter peoples of multiple religions, led by batshit leaders that wanted to conquer the world.

See a pattern?

Xi Jinping has seemed awfully aggressive lately...

[New haven america]

CCP: Nationalist, commits genocide
Nazi Germany: Nationalist, commits genocide

See a pattern?

CCP: Originally fought against Kuomintang dictatorship and Japanese hordes, holds relations with numerous countries around the world, doesn't seek to limit religion, isn't led by batshit leaders that want to conquer the world.

Nazi Germany: Originally was created based on legitimate hatred of Western Powers and made-up hatred of Jews, held relationships only with it's collaborator countries, seeked to destroy religion and sought to slaughter peoples of multiple religions, led by batshit leaders that wanted to conquer the world.

See a pattern?

Xi Jinping would like to have a word with you...

[San Lumen]

DeSantis sets the date for the Fort Lauderdale-West Palm Beach byelection: January 11, 2022

No, that's not a typo, that's how far ahead the general will be. The primary will be on November 2.

A judge should order him to to set it for earlier.

[Atheris]

Because otherwise you get balkanization. People in a community need unity of some kind and if they think of themselves as distinct entities, there will be only distrust at best and violence at worst.

Odd how there have been numerous very successful multi-ethnic states throughout human history that lasted long periods of time.

Keep in mind, though, that when these countries did fall apart (which happened more often than you think), they usually led to war and/or ethnic cleansing; Yugoslavia is the most obvious example, but it's also worth pointing out the USSR (the Caucasus and Ukraine)/Russian Empire (literally everywhere, even excluding the Russian Civil War), the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, the British Empire, and even seemingly homogenous countries like Afghanistan (the Taliban, for all intents and purposes, is a Pashtun nationalist group). Hell, it's even worth looking back at the empires of Antiquity like the Western Roman Empire.

[Punished UMN]

Because otherwise you get balkanization. People in a community need unity of some kind and if they think of themselves as distinct entities, there will be only distrust at best and violence at worst.

Wow, we agree on something. Amazing!

But indeed, there needs to be some acceptance of cultural and social norms practiced by all people.

The issue here though is that you are equating nation with sovereignty, and thereby making the legal state indistinguishable ideologically from the nation-state.

[Shrillland]

DeSantis sets the date for the Fort Lauderdale-West Palm Beach byelection: January 11, 2022

No, that's not a typo, that's how far ahead the general will be. The primary will be on November 2.

A judge should order him to to set it for earlier.

The way Florida law's set up, there's not much anyone can do, I'm afraid.

[Kowani]

Facebook to announce whether Trump can return to the platform on Wednesday

[The Reformed American Republic]

DeSantis sets the date for the Fort Lauderdale-West Palm Beach byelection: January 11, 2022

No, that's not a typo, that's how far ahead the general will be. The primary will be on November 2.

The modern day Republican Party for you.

[Atheris]

They all support nationalism.

No they don't.

The USSR supported the downfall of monarchy.

And yet, it was an empire. Plus, monarchy =! nationalism.

Russia supports oligarchic capitalism and doesn't give a shit about anything else, including Russia's well being and the Russians living there.

Which is why it's invading Georgia and Ukraine's Russian-populated areas.

And the US was actually quite content to continue being a part of The UK.

Which is why we fought a bitter 8 year war to overthrow them.

[Immortan Khan]

Odd how there have been numerous very successful multi-ethnic states throughout human history that lasted long periods of time.

Keep in mind, though, that when these countries did fall apart (which happened more often than you think), they usually led to war and/or ethnic cleansing; Yugoslavia is the most obvious example, but it's also worth pointing out the USSR (the Caucasus and Ukraine)/Russian Empire (literally everywhere, even excluding the Russian Civil War), the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Ottoman Empire, the British Empire, and even seemingly homogenous countries like Afghanistan (the Taliban, for all intents and purposes, is a Pashtun nationalist group). Hell, it's even worth looking back at the empires of Antiquity like the Western Roman Empire.

I'm aware that in many instances the collapse of multinethnic/national/etc states often led to horrendous atrocities. That is a consequence of their failure not their success where the opposite is true for nationstates.

[North Washington Republic]

Wow, we agree on something. Amazing!

But indeed, there needs to be some acceptance of cultural and social norms practiced by all people.

The issue here though is that you are equating nation with sovereignty, and thereby making the legal state indistinguishable ideologically from the nation-state.

I’m having trouble understanding your point. My wish is that there people living in a nation adopt and practice the basic and social norms of that nation. I also wish that people living in a nation due their best to speak, read and write the majority language too.

[Punished UMN]

No they don't.

The USSR supported the downfall of monarchy.

And yet, it was an empire. Plus, monarchy =! nationalism.

Russia supports oligarchic capitalism and doesn't give a shit about anything else, including Russia's well being and the Russians living there.

Which is why it's invading Georgia and Ukraine's Russian-populated areas.

Russia did not invade "Russian-populated areas" of Georgia. Georgia had two independent republics that had been independent since 1990, which Georgia invaded in 2008, and the Russian Federation launched a counterattack to drive them out of these areas. Even the European Union's independent fact-finding mission blamed Georgia for the outbreak of the war.

[Punished UMN]

The issue here though is that you are equating nation with sovereignty, and thereby making the legal state indistinguishable ideologically from the nation-state.

I’m having trouble understanding your point. My wish is that there people living in a nation adopt and practice the basic and social norms of that nation. I also wish that people living in a nation due their best to speak, read and write the majority language too.

You're misunderstanding my point because of what I said. You are not conceiving of the state and nation as separate entities, they are.

[Atheris]

And yet, it was an empire. Plus, monarchy =! nationalism.


Which is why it's invading Georgia and Ukraine's Russian-populated areas.

Russia did not invade "Russian-populated areas" of Georgia. Georgia had two independent republics that had been independent since 1990, which Georgia invaded in 2008, and the Russian Federation launched a counterattack to drive them out of these areas. Even the European Union's independent fact-finding mission blamed Georgia for the outbreak of the war.

Fair, I thought Abkhazia and South Ossetia had a Russian minority. Shows how much I need to brush up on the region.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Facebook to announce whether Trump can return to the platform on Wednesday

Why should they let that man return? All social media companies rightfully booted that man when he caused an insurrection.

[New haven america]

No they don't.

The USSR supported the downfall of monarchy.

1. And yet, it was an empire. Plus, monarchy =! nationalism.

Russia supports oligarchic capitalism and doesn't give a shit about anything else, including Russia's well being and the Russians living there.

2. Which is why it's invading Georgia and Ukraine's Russian-populated areas.

And the US was actually quite content to continue being a part of The UK.

3. Which is why we fought a bitter 8 year war to overthrow them.

1. Every country with more than 1 ethnic group residing in it is technically an empire.
2. That's pretty much all for economic gain of the oligarchs. The slight majority of Crimeans now don't support Russia and think they should've stayed with Ukraine, because the local economy has tanked and the place has basically become the personal playground of 1 Russian billionaire. Also, Georgia doesn't have any Russian majority areas.
3. If the UK just let The Colonies have a place in Parliament, that would've never happened to begin with.

[Immortan Khan]

And yet, it was an empire. Plus, monarchy =! nationalism.


Which is why it's invading Georgia and Ukraine's Russian-populated areas.

Russia did not invade "Russian-populated areas" of Georgia. Georgia had two independent republics that had been independent since 1990, which Georgia invaded in 2008, and the Russian Federation launched a counterattack to drive them out of these areas. Even the European Union's independent fact-finding mission blamed Georgia for the outbreak of the war.

Not to mention that neither of them are Russian other than in terms of large numbers of Abkhazians and South Ossetians being Russian citizens.

[Punished UMN]

Russia did not invade "Russian-populated areas" of Georgia. Georgia had two independent republics that had been independent since 1990, which Georgia invaded in 2008, and the Russian Federation launched a counterattack to drive them out of these areas. Even the European Union's independent fact-finding mission blamed Georgia for the outbreak of the war.

Fair, I thought Abkhazia and South Ossetia had a Russian minority. Shows how much I need to brush up on the region.

No, they are their own ethnic groups. The Caucuses has a great deal of ethnic diversity. Abkhazia and South Ossetia had been granted status as Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republics (AuSSR), which was a special administrative level in the Soviet constitution intended to provide autonomy for ethnic groups that were distinct from the group that was the majority within their Republic, without giving them full independence, and their autonomy and rights were guaranteed by the central government in Moscow. When the USSR collapsed, this caused a crisis in many of these Autonomous Republics (most notably Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Nagorno-Karabakh, Chechnya, Priednestrovie, and Crimea), because there was no longer a central government to guarantee their autonomy, and these declared independence (though Crimea withdrew its bid for independence at the time under threat of military force from the Ukrainian SSR) in order to prevent losing their autonomy. After the settling of the disputes between the RSFSR (now the Russian Federation) and its autonomous regions, sometimes with military force, Russia has often in recent years tried to say that the Soviet Constitution, which guaranteed these regions autonomy, allows their intervention in intra-state conflict within the former Soviet Union to settle disputes under international law.

[New haven america]

Russia did not invade "Russian-populated areas" of Georgia. Georgia had two independent republics that had been independent since 1990, which Georgia invaded in 2008, and the Russian Federation launched a counterattack to drive them out of these areas. Even the European Union's independent fact-finding mission blamed Georgia for the outbreak of the war.

Fair, I thought Abkhazia and South Ossetia had a Russian minority. Shows how much I need to brush up on the region.

The Caucuses are the Balkans on steroids.

Georgians, Armenians, Azeris, Russians, Greeks, Ossetians, Abazians, Circassians, Chechans, Karachais, Balkars, Kumyks, etc...

[Immortan Khan]

Russia did not invade "Russian-populated areas" of Georgia. Georgia had two independent republics that had been independent since 1990, which Georgia invaded in 2008, and the Russian Federation launched a counterattack to drive them out of these areas. Even the European Union's independent fact-finding mission blamed Georgia for the outbreak of the war.

Fair, I thought Abkhazia and South Ossetia had a Russian minority. Shows how much I need to brush up on the region.

Abkhazia has a sizeable ethnic Russian minority but South Ossetia does not.

[Atheris]

1. And yet, it was an empire. Plus, monarchy =! nationalism.


2. Which is why it's invading Georgia and Ukraine's Russian-populated areas.


3. Which is why we fought a bitter 8 year war to overthrow them.

1. Every country with more than 1 ethnic group residing in it is technically an empire.

You mistake the definition of "empire;" an empire is, in what I believe to be the most apt definition, a country ruling over nations in an unequal balance of power to benefit the ruling nation. Not every multiethnic country is an empire; the UK and US aren't (anymore), China and Israel are.

2. That's pretty much all for economic gain of the oligarchs. The slight majority of Crimeans now don't support Russia and think they should've stayed with Ukraine, because the local economy has tanked and the place has basically become the personal playground of 1 Russian billionaire.

Proof for these claims? Not that I don't believe you (although tbh I don't), but I want some proof that it was "all for the oligarchs".

3. If the UK just let The Colonies have a place in Parliament, that would've never happened to begin with.

A fair assumption, but one that can't be reasonably made. British transgressions against the colonists were more than just a few acts; they were the blockading of ports, martial law in Massachusetts, the quartering of British soldiers, and the lack of free speech. The American Revolution was more than just "me no in parliament, me angry".

[Immortan Khan]

1. Every country with more than 1 ethnic group residing in it is technically an empire.

You mistake the definition of "empire;" an empire is, in what I believe to be the most apt definition, a country ruling over nations in an unequal balance of power to benefit the ruling nation. Not every multiethnic country is an empire; the UK and US aren't (anymore), China and Israel are.

The US is definitely an empire. There is an unequal balance between for example between the indigenous nations and the US government.

[Atheris]

You mistake the definition of "empire;" an empire is, in what I believe to be the most apt definition, a country ruling over nations in an unequal balance of power to benefit the ruling nation. Not every multiethnic country is an empire; the UK and US aren't (anymore), China and Israel are.

The US is definitely an empire. There is an unequal balance between for example the indigenous nations and the US government.

The US ceased to be an empire with the turn of the 20th century. A vast majority of Americans - even natives, including Pacific Islanders and native Amerindians, consider themselves "American" first. Contrast this with most Indians in the British Empire, who considered themselves Indian first and British second or even not at all. Poles in the German Empire, Ukrainians in the Russian Empire, Han in the Qing Empire (a Manchu Empire, mind you), Koreans in the Japanese Empire - most of them considered loyalty to their nation first and their country second.