Matt Bevin and bring your bible to school

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

But if a political leader wants to encourage folks to carry bibles with them, so be it.

Would you say the same if he was encouraging them to carry the Qur'an?

[Kernen]

I genuinely don't see the problem here.

I'm actually an atheist. Grew up Catholic but the whole culture against "live and live live" didn't sit well with me. But if a political leader wants to encourage folks to carry bibles with them, so be it. As long as kids' grades aren't being affected and they aren't being given detentions for not doing so.

Because it violates the Constitution.

[Rojava Free State]

But if a political leader wants to encourage folks to carry bibles with them, so be it.

Would you say the same if he was encouraging them to carry the Qur'an?

Everybody's gangster till someone walks in carrying a quran. I have a feeling if someone did that in that part of America nowadays, it would start with a fire alarm being pulled and end with the SWAT being deployed. Now of course I support not endorsing any religion and I personally as an atheist dislike most religions, but in the bible belt people love Christianity to death and violently hate Muslims (I'm talking about feeling rage toward people and not just disliking their religion).

[Chestaan]

Not sure how suggesting to kids that they may bring a Bible to school if they want to is a violation of free speech. Surely if anything it would be a violation to stop somebody from suggesting that kids bring a Bible to school. Bit weird if the school has an official day for bringing the Bible to school though.

Anyway you guys have way bigger problems in this regard, like pledging allegiance to the flag like some crazy ultra-nationalist state.

"I would encourage you, please, don’t just bring your Bible to school, but read your Bible. Bring it, share it with others. If you have an extra Bible, bring it and share it with somebody who doesn’t have one, who maybe has never read this book," Bevin said Tuesday in a video posted on social media.

Not just bring the bible. Actively preach too.

Wouldn't preaching also fall under the first amendment?

[Kernen]

Not just bring the bible. Actively preach too.

Wouldn't preaching also fall under the first amendment?

Yes. But under Tinker, the preaching as an expression of speech in school isn't protected nearly as much as it is in Town Square. It can't be disruptive, and the standard for disputptiveness is...low.

[Katganistan]

It's generally later, when kids go off to college and are encouraged to think more critically, that this happens. One of the reasons, I suppose, that many right-wing people vilify education.

So White people/christians are bad because the Crusades. But all the invasions and piracy and genocides that Islamic states have/are sponsoring are just fine?

DDDDUUUUUUUDE you should sell that to the government. They're trying to make faster than light travel a reality, and that leap of logic could get us to Mars easily.

And I note you didn't actually quote the context of what I said about the Crusades, or that would have made your comment even LESS coherent.

It is not. But it is against the constitution of the state itself.

Alright so this is what has been provided about the Kentucky constitution itself regarding religious freedom.

Here is the Kentucky constituion on this:

Section 5 Right of religious freedom.
No preference shall ever be given by law to any religious sect, society or
denomination; nor to any particular creed, mode of worship or system of ecclesiastical
polity; nor shall any person be compelled to attend any place of worship, to contribute to
the erection or maintenance of any such place, or to the salary or support of any minister
of religion; nor shall any man be compelled to send his child to any school to which he
may be conscientiously opposed; and the civil rights, privileges or capacities of no person
shall be taken away, or in anywise diminished or enlarged, on account of his belief or
disbelief of any religious tenet, dogma or teaching. No human authority shall, in any case
whatever, control or interfere with the rights of conscience.

And from Section 1 itself.

Section 1 Rights of life, liberty, worship, pursuit of safety and happiness, free
speech, acquiring and protecting property, peaceable assembly, redress of
grievances, bearing arms.
All men are, by nature, free and equal, and have certain inherent and inalienable
rights, among which may be reckoned:
First: The right of enjoying and defending their lives and liberties.
Second: The right of worshipping Almighty God according to the dictates of their
consciences.
Third: The right of seeking and pursuing their safety and happiness.
Fourth: The right of freely communicating their thoughts and opinions.
Fifth: The right of acquiring and protecting property.
Sixth: The right of assembling together in a peaceable manner for their common
good, and of applying to those invested with the power of government for redress of
grievances or other proper purposes, by petition, address or remonstrance.
Seventh: The right to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the State, subject to
the power of the General Assembly to enact laws to prevent persons from carrying
concealed weapons

https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/law/constitution
I see no violation of either statute because this tweet held no force of law behind it and was merely the opinion of the governor.

He made it AS the governor, on the OFFICIAL TWITTER ACCOUNT OF THE GOVERNOR, Linked to ON THE OFFICIAL SITE OF THE KY GOVERNOR. And it certainly does give preference to Christianity.

They have eyes but will not see.

[Major-Tom]

Matt Bevin can bring his Bible back home when he's promptly elected out of the Governor's Mansion next month.

[The Emerald Legion]

I genuinely don't see the problem here.

I'm actually an atheist. Grew up Catholic but the whole culture against "live and live live" didn't sit well with me. But if a political leader wants to encourage folks to carry bibles with them, so be it. As long as kids' grades aren't being affected and they aren't being given detentions for not doing so.

Because it violates the Constitution.

Except it doesn't. There is no law demanding these kids carry a Bible. There is no law demanding the Governer advocate they do.

There is no legal compulsion to comply with his request. He is making a personal request. The fact that his position as governer gives that request more publicity doesn't violate the establishment clause. And in fact, demanding he not bring up the Bible 100% would.

[Katganistan]

It's funny when people mock someone for not being a mindless drone that goes along with the program cause some invisible man no one has seen supposedly demands it.

Not surprised so many people haven't heard of it, considering that a lot of super religious people have the meme skills of Rachel madow and vox combined with a sprinkling of CNN

I don't know what it was like for you where you grew up but being a professed Christian in my high school may earn you some smiles and nods of approval from the elderly woman across the street and a few adults but my classmates routinely made fun of my beliefs. For me the norm was for my peers to be irreligious and I was always the odd one out, classmates would bump into me or try to make me jump when I would be praying before I ate lunch. Maybe the religious people you interacted with were mindless drones because religion was the norm for your area but for me the irreligious were the mindless drones, not all mind you some could actually hold a philosophical and respectful conversation but most just did what everyone else did. So I would not caricature people like that but just remember that people generally accept the norm around them and not all mindless drones are of the same make and model.

Funny, no one ever mocked me for being a Catholic.
That said, I didn't make a big show out of my faith either. Not saying you did, but there are those who make damned sure everyone knows "I AM PRAYING NOW" or proselytize when they're not asked. People can certainly take a moment to pray before lunch without placing a spotlight over themselves. People can have a discussion without winding everything back to their faith and then telling people they know are not interested "I'll pray for you" in a passive-aggressive superior way too.

Again, not saying this is what you did, but it's the issue many non-faithful, as well as different-faithed people have with some Christians. You shouldn't have been bothered and mocked, and I hope you didn't go out of your way to make others feel uncomfortable, too.

What country are you from, because in america religion is the norm everywhere. And religion in general relies on mindlessness because it requires faith based on faith alone and not evidence. And regardless of whatever you believe, in whatever country you're from, you still shouldn't be persecuted for your ideas. Remember once again ladies and gents, I am against any sort of unnatural hierachy, any attempt to silence people for their ideas and any system that controls people's lives through force and intimidation. All conformity without reason is bad. If you're gonna think a certain way, at least have a legitimate conversation with yourself about whether you believe it and why you do, and don't base all your beliefs off what someone else told you to think.

As a matter of fact, no, in america religion is not the norm everywhere. There is clear religion flourishes in the bible belt, but outside of it, its way more irreligious then you make it out to be.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/rel ... tates.html
US is 71% Christian affliliated.

https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/
US: 70% Christian affiliated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_ ... ted_States
In 2016, Christians were 74% of the population.

https://www.businessinsider.com/image/5 ... 5%20pm.png
look at all those Christians.

https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?typ ... eo=&ctype=
Yeah, please don't peddle that "Christians are oppressed minority" because it's JUST NOT TRUE.

Not just bring the bible. Actively preach too.

Wouldn't preaching also fall under the first amendment?

Causing a disturbance by harassing people who don't want to hear it falls under the first amendment now?

Keep it in religious schools, prayer group, religion-affliated clubs and organizations and churchs -- where everyone is a willing participant and not a hostage.

[Prusenreich]

Technically since he isn't requiring them to bring a Bible it isn't against the first

[Sycar]

As an atheist, I really don't understand why people get so upset about religious people being proud of/practicing their religion. He's not forcing Christianity onto people, he just made a suggestion that kids should bring their Bibles to school. My school had a Bring Your Bible Day, and no one threw a fit over it. Just because he's a government and he made a suggestion that kids should bring their Bible to school doesn't mean that he violated the 1st Amendment. The 1st Amendment protects religion and the practice of religion, so he was simply using the 1st Amendment to practice his religion just like 173 million people in the US do every day.

[Katganistan]

Technically since he isn't requiring them to bring a Bible it isn't against the first

So he wouldn't have a problem promoting "Bring a Koran to school day" and asking students to share an extra copy with someone who hasn't read that fine text, and with asking students to preach Islam to their classmates.

Right?

[Katganistan]

As an atheist, I really don't understand why people get so upset about religious people being proud of/practicing their religion. He's not forcing Christianity onto people, he just made a suggestion that kids should bring their Bibles to school. My school had a Bring Your Bible Day, and no one threw a fit over it. Just because he's a government and he made a suggestion that kids should bring their Bible to school doesn't mean that he violated the 1st Amendment. The 1st Amendment protects religion and the practice of religion, so he was simply using the 1st Amendment to practice his religion just like 173 million people in the US do every day.

It also promotes freedom FROM religion, and using it in his OFFICIAL capacity to promote HIS religion is clearly unethical and violates the KY law and the first.

You realize that it's under the 1st Amendment and 14th Amendments that it was found unconstitutional and therefore ILLEGAL to force any student to recite the Pledge of Allegiance in the US, right? For the same reason? Not pushing religion on the unwilling (not to mention religious groups who as a tenet of their faith CANNOT use God to vow anything).

[Holy Tedalonia]

As an atheist, I really don't understand why people get so upset about religious people being proud of/practicing their religion. He's not forcing Christianity onto people, he just made a suggestion that kids should bring their Bibles to school. My school had a Bring Your Bible Day, and no one threw a fit over it. Just because he's a government and he made a suggestion that kids should bring their Bible to school doesn't mean that he violated the 1st Amendment. The 1st Amendment protects religion and the practice of religion, so he was simply using the 1st Amendment to practice his religion just like 173 million people in the US do every day.

It also promotes freedom FROM religion, and using it in his OFFICIAL capacity to promote HIS religion is clearly unethical and violates the KY law and the first.

You realize that it's under the 1st Amendment and 14th Amendments that it was found unconstitutional and therefore ILLEGAL to force any student to recite the Pledge of Allegiance in the US, right? For the same reason? Not pushing religion on the unwilling (not to mention religious groups who as a tenet of their faith CANNOT use God to vow anything).

As far as the thread source shows, its being runned by Focus on the Family. As such he is merely pointing out the event, and advertising it, on his personal twitter account. As such as far as the source provides, he is merely a denizen promoting a event on the internet, just a more well known denizen then most.

[Prusenreich]

Technically since he isn't requiring them to bring a Bible it isn't against the first

So he wouldn't have a problem promoting "Bring a Koran to school day" and asking students to share an extra copy with someone who hasn't read that fine text, and with asking students to preach Islam to their classmates.

Right?

He would because He probably thinks Islam preaches terrorism but like I said legally he can't do anything

[The Alma Mater]

It also promotes freedom FROM religion, and using it in his OFFICIAL capacity to promote HIS religion is clearly unethical and violates the KY law and the first.

You realize that it's under the 1st Amendment and 14th Amendments that it was found unconstitutional and therefore ILLEGAL to force any student to recite the Pledge of Allegiance in the US, right? For the same reason? Not pushing religion on the unwilling (not to mention religious groups who as a tenet of their faith CANNOT use God to vow anything).

As far as the thread source shows, its being runned by Focus on the Family. As such he is merely pointing out the event, and advertising it, on his personal twitter account. As such as far as the source provides, he is merely a denizen promoting a event on the internet, just a more well known denizen then most.

As has been pointed out numerous times, it is on his GOVERNOR twitter account, he is saying it AS THE GOVERNOR, not as Matt Bevin, in official seating, hosted on the KY servers and linking governor.ky.gov.

Why do you lie?

[The Emerald Legion]

As far as the thread source shows, its being runned by Focus on the Family. As such he is merely pointing out the event, and advertising it, on his personal twitter account. As such as far as the source provides, he is merely a denizen promoting a event on the internet, just a more well known denizen then most.

As has been pointed out numerous times, it is on his GOVERNOR twitter account, he is saying it AS THE GOVERNOR, not as Matt Bevin, in official seating, hosted on the KY servers and linking governor.ky.gov.

Why do you lie?

This... Matters why? Governors are allowed to be religious and say religious things.

[Holy Tedalonia]

As a matter of fact, no, in america religion is not the norm everywhere. There is clear religion flourishes in the bible belt, but outside of it, its way more irreligious then you make it out to be.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/rel ... tates.html
US is 71% Christian affliliated.

https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/
US: 70% Christian affiliated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_ ... ted_States
In 2016, Christians were 74% of the population.

https://www.businessinsider.com/image/5 ... 5%20pm.png
look at all those Christians.

https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?typ ... eo=&ctype=
Yeah, please don't peddle that "Christians are oppressed minority" because it's JUST NOT TRUE.

You missed my point, I'm not saying Christianity isn't popular, no its just less of a fact of life in other states. Coming from Minnesota back in my younger years (a place your map defines as baptist/catholic), she was bullied for being a christian. Compared to Texas (where I live now), and Minnesota (where I was born), there was a vast difference in culture and values. Also to point out, were talking about more youthful folk. As you know most Christians tend to be on the older side. The youth tend to be less religiously affiliated.

[Holy Tedalonia]

As far as the thread source shows, its being runned by Focus on the Family. As such he is merely pointing out the event, and advertising it, on his personal twitter account. As such as far as the source provides, he is merely a denizen promoting a event on the internet, just a more well known denizen then most.

As has been pointed out numerous times, it is on his GOVERNOR twitter account, he is saying it AS THE GOVERNOR, not as Matt Bevin, in official seating, hosted on the KY servers and linking governor.ky.gov.

Why do you lie?

Im sorry, but I fail to see how that matters. If I make another account, slap Governor Holy Tedalonia on as the name, its no less my account then before.

[Hakons]

As an atheist, I really don't understand why people get so upset about religious people being proud of/practicing their religion. He's not forcing Christianity onto people, he just made a suggestion that kids should bring their Bibles to school. My school had a Bring Your Bible Day, and no one threw a fit over it. Just because he's a government and he made a suggestion that kids should bring their Bible to school doesn't mean that he violated the 1st Amendment. The 1st Amendment protects religion and the practice of religion, so he was simply using the 1st Amendment to practice his religion just like 173 million people in the US do every day.

It also promotes freedom FROM religion, and using it in his OFFICIAL capacity to promote HIS religion is clearly unethical and violates the KY law and the first.

You realize that it's under the 1st Amendment and 14th Amendments that it was found unconstitutional and therefore ILLEGAL to force any student to recite the Pledge of Allegiance in the US, right? For the same reason? Not pushing religion on the unwilling (not to mention religious groups who as a tenet of their faith CANNOT use God to vow anything).

The logical implication of your argument is that the governor can't promote anything when he acts in an "official capacity." If a governor can't talk about religion, then he can't talk about politics, opinions, or preferred policies either. If a governor can't push "religion on the unwilling" (which he didn't even do), then it follows that he can't push his political, governmental, and policy views on the unwilling either. The governor is not a magical, neutral figure, but is an elected official that is chosen based on his biases and social opinions. The idea that religious sentiment is a big no no, but any other sentiment which can be divisive is somehow still "neutral" is plainly foolish.

[Necroghastia]

As has been pointed out numerous times, it is on his GOVERNOR twitter account, he is saying it AS THE GOVERNOR, not as Matt Bevin, in official seating, hosted on the KY servers and linking governor.ky.gov.

Why do you lie?

Im sorry, but I fail to see how that matters. If I make another account, slap Governor Holy Tedalonia on as the name, its no less my account then before.

The difference being that you are presumably not an actual governor and would not be using the official account of the office.

[The Emerald Legion]

Im sorry, but I fail to see how that matters. If I make another account, slap Governor Holy Tedalonia on as the name, its no less my account then before.

The difference being that you are presumably not an actual governor and would not be using the official account of the office.

Except governors are allowed to be religious.

[Necroghastia]

The difference being that you are presumably not an actual governor and would not be using the official account of the office.

Except governors are allowed to be religious.

I suggest you read literally every argument against Mr. Bevin's actions in this thread again, as no one is claiming otherwise.

[Holy Tedalonia]

Im sorry, but I fail to see how that matters. If I make another account, slap Governor Holy Tedalonia on as the name, its no less my account then before.

The difference being that you are presumably not an actual governor and would not be using the official account of the office.

To be the account of the office, then the account will be used after Matt Bevin leaves. As it is the office that owns it, not Matt Bevin. I find it silly that the next guy will be getting the "Governor Matt Bevin" account, as he is not Matt Bevin. It is clear to me if this was a account of the office, then it would say something akin to "State of Kentucky," or "Governor of Kentucky". However, that is not the case.

[Gormwood]

Too bad there aren't any Muslim governors to show how ready Bevin's apologists are to do a 180 turn like Linda Blair's head.