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LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Book on Leftist Ideology is Your Preferred Book?

The Communist Manifesto (Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels)
23
18%
The Conquest of Bread (Peter Kropotkin)
24
19%
Das Kapital (Karl Marx)
21
16%
What is Property? (Pierre-Joseph Proudhon)
2
2%
Guerilla Warfare (Che Guevara)
8
6%
Mutual Aid (Peter Kropotkin)
2
2%
Profit Over People (Noam Chomsky)
4
3%
The Ego and Its Own (Max Stirner)
8
6%
Debt: The First 5,000 Years (David Graeber)
5
4%
Other (Please Explain)
32
25%
 
Total votes : 129

User avatar
Benuty
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35890
Founded: Jan 21, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Benuty » Wed May 22, 2019 1:01 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Jack Thomas Lang wrote:Bat'ko was a dunderhead who deserved what he got for helping the Bolshies. If it wasn't for Bat'ko sucking away AFSR troops when Denikin needed them most for the Moscow offensive, the White Army would have been parading in Moscow by 1919.

Um... Isn't Bat'ko a YouTuber?

I looked it up, and it seems to be a reference to Nestor Makhno and a few others.
Last edited by Hashem 13.8 billion years ago
King of Madness in the Right Wing Discussion Thread. Winner of 2016 Posters Award for Insanity.
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Jack Thomas Lang
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1135
Founded: Apr 18, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Jack Thomas Lang » Wed May 22, 2019 1:02 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Um... Isn't Bat'ko a YouTuber?

He is, and an Aussie to boot. But I'm talking about Nester Makhno, the Ukrainian anarchist. Bat'ko takes his name from Makhno.
Catholic Distributist
Three Acres and a Cow

"In the race of life, always back self-interest — at least you know it's trying."
Rerum Novarum and Quadragesimo Anno

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Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5764
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Wed May 22, 2019 1:31 am

Jack Thomas Lang wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Um... Isn't Bat'ko a YouTuber?

He is, and an Aussie to boot. But I'm talking about Nester Makhno, the Ukrainian anarchist. Bat'ko takes his name from Makhno.

Makhno is my husbando. also, i'm entirely sure the free territory could have survived on it's own if trotsky hadn't fucked with it
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Syndicalist, vehement anti-fascist.
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7865
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Wed May 22, 2019 1:36 am

Crysuko wrote:
Jack Thomas Lang wrote:He is, and an Aussie to boot. But I'm talking about Nester Makhno, the Ukrainian anarchist. Bat'ko takes his name from Makhno.

Makhno is my husbando. also, i'm entirely sure the free territory could have survived on it's own if trotsky hadn't fucked with it

When a Communist makes fun of Trotsky it initiates a Pavlovian response from me.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5764
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Wed May 22, 2019 1:37 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Crysuko wrote:Makhno is my husbando. also, i'm entirely sure the free territory could have survived on it's own if trotsky hadn't fucked with it

When a Communist makes fun of Trotsky it initiates a Pavlovian response from me.

good thing i'm a syndicalist.
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Syndicalist, vehement anti-fascist.
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
Jack Thomas Lang
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1135
Founded: Apr 18, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Jack Thomas Lang » Wed May 22, 2019 2:00 am

Crysuko wrote:Makhno is my husbando. also, i'm entirely sure the free territory could have survived on it's own if trotsky hadn't fucked with it

Sure, it would have survived on its own if the Bolsheviks allowed an anarchist enclave within their borders sitting on prime agricultural and industrial land. The Free Territory was doomed to fail and it helped take the Whites down with it.
Catholic Distributist
Three Acres and a Cow

"In the race of life, always back self-interest — at least you know it's trying."
Rerum Novarum and Quadragesimo Anno

User avatar
West Leas Oros 2
Minister
 
Posts: 2325
Founded: Jul 15, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Wed May 22, 2019 5:31 am

Crysuko wrote:
Jack Thomas Lang wrote:He is, and an Aussie to boot. But I'm talking about Nester Makhno, the Ukrainian anarchist. Bat'ko takes his name from Makhno.

Makhno is my husbando. also, i'm entirely sure the free territory could have survived on it's own if trotsky hadn't fucked with it

>Implying Trotsky fucking the free territory was a bad thing
*malicious trot noises*
West Leas Oros 2, Election Boogaloo (Please ignore the 2 in our name in all IC interactions)
WLO Public News: West Leas Oros now a sponsor of Leninade!
I killed the entire population of Vuvuzela by raising the minimum wage
Simultaneously an evil commie who wants to take your toothbrush, and an evil brocialist reactionary and revisionist.
An accurate description of NSG: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IQFU1y928dw

I guess im doing the waifu flag thing now...

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Dumb Ideologies
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41090
Founded: Sep 30, 2007
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Wed May 22, 2019 6:22 am

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
Crysuko wrote:Makhno is my husbando. also, i'm entirely sure the free territory could have survived on it's own if trotsky hadn't fucked with it

>Implying Trotsky fucking the free territory was a bad thing
*malicious trot noises*


"Free Territory? I'll take it!"

Way I sees, they were sort of asking for it...
Last edited by Dumb Ideologies on Wed May 22, 2019 6:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tʜᴇ Sᴛʀᴀssᴇʀɪsᴛ Sᴜɴᴅᴀᴇ Cʟᴜʙ ᴏғ Dᴜᴍʙ Iᴅᴇᴏʟᴏɢɪᴇs
¸„¤*˜*¤„¸„¤*˜*¤„¸ One People, One Nation, Many Puddings ¸„¤*˜*¤„¸„¤*˜*¤„¸
The thirty-something tsundere trans cryptofascist nobody warned you about
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Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 52461
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Wed May 22, 2019 6:36 am

Reminder that anti-communist socialism was seen as basically normal for a long time and included figures like Betrand Russel, who said of Marx;

"In relation to any political doctrine there are two questions to be asked: (1) Are its theoretical tenets true? (2) Is its practical policy likely to increase human happiness? For my part, I think the theoretical tenets of Communism are false, and I think its practical maxims are such as to produce an immeasurable increase of human misery."

"The theoretical doctrines of Communism are for the most part derived from Marx. My objections to Marx are of two sorts: one, that he was muddle-headed; and the other, that his thinking was almost entirely inspired by hatred. The doctrine of surplus value, which is supposed to demonstrate the exploitation of wage-earners under capitalism, is arrived at: (a) by surreptitiously accepting Malthus’s doctrine of population, which Marx and all his disciples explicitly repudiate; (b) by applying Ricardo’s theory of value to wages, but not to the prices of manufactured articles. He is entirely satisfied with the result, not because it is in accordance with the facts or because it is logically coherent, but because it is calculated to rouse fury in wage-earners. Marx’s doctrine that all historical events have been motivated by class conflicts is a rash and untrue extension to world history of certain features prominent in England and France a hundred years ago. His belief that there is a cosmic force called Dialectical Materialism which governs human history independently of human volitions, is mere mythology. His theoretical errors, however, would not have mattered so much but for the fact that, like Tertullian and Carlyle, his chief desire was to see his enemies punished, and he cared little what happened to his friends in the process."


And of Lenin;
"He seemed to be a reincarnation of Cromwell, with all the same limitations: absolute orthodoxy. He thought a proposition could be proved by quoting Marx. And he was incapable of supposing that there was anything in Marx that wasn't right"


Yet supported workplace democracy, short working hours, and was critical of capitalism, noting;
"Advocates of capitalism are very apt to appeal to the sacred principles of liberty, which are embodied in one maxim: The fortunate must not be restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate."
New Sig, who dis?
Patriarchy theory is a valid academic theory, not incel tier psychological abuse which maps on to any situation a woman doesn't like and enables them to rationalize a hostility to men, we swear.
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The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7865
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Wed May 22, 2019 6:58 am

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
Crysuko wrote:Makhno is my husbando. also, i'm entirely sure the free territory could have survived on it's own if trotsky hadn't fucked with it

>Implying Trotsky fucking the free territory was a bad thing
*malicious trot noises*

I'm kind of lost. What was the free territory, and why did Trotsky have sex with it?
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

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Nakena
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6059
Founded: May 06, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nakena » Wed May 22, 2019 7:01 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:>Implying Trotsky fucking the free territory was a bad thing
*malicious trot noises*

I'm kind of lost. What was the free territory, and why did Trotsky have sex with it?


Here you go
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【Female or they/them pronoun preferred but not required】

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Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5764
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Wed May 22, 2019 7:41 am

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
Crysuko wrote:Makhno is my husbando. also, i'm entirely sure the free territory could have survived on it's own if trotsky hadn't fucked with it

>Implying Trotsky fucking the free territory was a bad thing
*malicious trot noises*

I'd consider fighting you but you'd split before I got there :^)
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Syndicalist, vehement anti-fascist.
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
West Leas Oros 2
Minister
 
Posts: 2325
Founded: Jul 15, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Wed May 22, 2019 7:49 am

Crysuko wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:>Implying Trotsky fucking the free territory was a bad thing
*malicious trot noises*

I'd consider fighting you but you'd split before I got there :^)

Where’s the Seinfeld bass when you need it?
West Leas Oros 2, Election Boogaloo (Please ignore the 2 in our name in all IC interactions)
WLO Public News: West Leas Oros now a sponsor of Leninade!
I killed the entire population of Vuvuzela by raising the minimum wage
Simultaneously an evil commie who wants to take your toothbrush, and an evil brocialist reactionary and revisionist.
An accurate description of NSG: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IQFU1y928dw

I guess im doing the waifu flag thing now...

User avatar
Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 52461
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Wed May 22, 2019 8:15 am

Dutch minister for migration has resigned following it emerging that he covered up the extent of rapes and murders committed by migrants, sweeping those crimes under "Other" in his report on migrant crime.
New Sig, who dis?
Patriarchy theory is a valid academic theory, not incel tier psychological abuse which maps on to any situation a woman doesn't like and enables them to rationalize a hostility to men, we swear.
https://i.redd.it/zj1a11ooxwb31.jpg

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Nakena
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6059
Founded: May 06, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nakena » Wed May 22, 2019 8:17 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:Dutch minister for migration has resigned following it emerging that he covered up the extent of rapes and murders committed by migrants, sweeping those crimes under "Other" in his report on migrant crime.


Sounds spicy.

Sauce me up.
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【Female or they/them pronoun preferred but not required】

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Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 52461
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Wed May 22, 2019 8:18 am

Nakena wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:Dutch minister for migration has resigned following it emerging that he covered up the extent of rapes and murders committed by migrants, sweeping those crimes under "Other" in his report on migrant crime.


Sounds spicy.

Sauce me up.


https://www.google.com/search?q=dutch+m ... 66&bih=625

"Shame to lose such a Talented Liberal"

lol
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Wed May 22, 2019 8:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
New Sig, who dis?
Patriarchy theory is a valid academic theory, not incel tier psychological abuse which maps on to any situation a woman doesn't like and enables them to rationalize a hostility to men, we swear.
https://i.redd.it/zj1a11ooxwb31.jpg

User avatar
Nakena
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6059
Founded: May 06, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nakena » Wed May 22, 2019 8:19 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Nakena wrote:
Sounds spicy.

Sauce me up.


https://www.google.com/search?q=dutch+m ... 66&bih=625


Ohh that is amazing. He had it coming. Shouldn be this a thread of its own? This is too memetic to be true.
【Your friendly neighbourhood barista and genderqueer degenerate bohemian】
【Female or they/them pronoun preferred but not required】

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Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 52461
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Wed May 22, 2019 8:22 am

Nakena wrote:


Ohh that is amazing. He had it coming. Shouldn be this a thread of its own? This is too memetic to be true.


Not the first incident either. Remember a while back people working in refugee centers were told to be quiet about being raped by the migrants they were there to help?

Pathological altruism arising from progressive ideology.
New Sig, who dis?
Patriarchy theory is a valid academic theory, not incel tier psychological abuse which maps on to any situation a woman doesn't like and enables them to rationalize a hostility to men, we swear.
https://i.redd.it/zj1a11ooxwb31.jpg

User avatar
Cekoviu
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11666
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Wed May 22, 2019 8:54 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:>Implying Trotsky fucking the free territory was a bad thing
*malicious trot noises*

I'm kind of lost. What was the free territory, and why did Trotsky have sex with it?

I'd be Trotsky's free territory any day ;)
Вы любите изучать исторические собаки, потому что вы -- злая тетрадь.
I often leave my posts unintentionally vague, so if you find yourself needing to make assumptions to piece together my positions, please just ask me to clarify.
Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

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Dumb Ideologies
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41090
Founded: Sep 30, 2007
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Wed May 22, 2019 8:55 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:Dutch minister for migration has resigned following it emerging that he covered up the extent of rapes and murders committed by migrants, sweeping those crimes under "Other" in his report on migrant crime.


Oof.
Tʜᴇ Sᴛʀᴀssᴇʀɪsᴛ Sᴜɴᴅᴀᴇ Cʟᴜʙ ᴏғ Dᴜᴍʙ Iᴅᴇᴏʟᴏɢɪᴇs
¸„¤*˜*¤„¸„¤*˜*¤„¸ One People, One Nation, Many Puddings ¸„¤*˜*¤„¸„¤*˜*¤„¸
The thirty-something tsundere trans cryptofascist nobody warned you about
♆ P ᴀ x D I ᴀ ʙ ᴏ ʟ ɪ ᴄ ᴀ ♆

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7865
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Wed May 22, 2019 8:56 am

Cekoviu wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:I'm kind of lost. What was the free territory, and why did Trotsky have sex with it?

I'd be Trotsky's free territory any day ;)

Same tbh. How could you not with that magnificent beard?
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
Cekoviu
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11666
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Wed May 22, 2019 8:57 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:I'd be Trotsky's free territory any day ;)

Same tbh. How could you not with that magnificent beard?

As a younger man, he didn't have it, but he was still a snacc.
But fr, young Stalin. How can somebody so hot be so evil?
Вы любите изучать исторические собаки, потому что вы -- злая тетрадь.
I often leave my posts unintentionally vague, so if you find yourself needing to make assumptions to piece together my positions, please just ask me to clarify.
Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

User avatar
Proctopeo
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10118
Founded: Sep 26, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Proctopeo » Wed May 22, 2019 8:57 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:Dutch minister for migration has resigned following it emerging that he covered up the extent of rapes and murders committed by migrants, sweeping those crimes under "Other" in his report on migrant crime.


Oof.

"Sal got caught covering up heinous crimes committed by migrants, making him tonight's biggest loser"
Center-right libertarian LockeabooEconomic: 5.25
Meme addict :^)Social: -3.74
Manga is literatureWill probably retake once every month or so, last updated 3/8/2019
RIP Balk
Crockerland wrote:Yes, we are aware, the Israelis protect their civilians with weapons while the Palestinians protect their weapons with civilians.

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7865
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Wed May 22, 2019 9:04 am

Cekoviu wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Same tbh. How could you not with that magnificent beard?

As a younger man, he didn't have it, but he was still a snacc.
But fr, young Stalin. How can somebody so hot be so evil?

Some people have all the luck.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Direct Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Psychedelic Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, Non-Market-Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Macs, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Economic: 0.5
Social: -8
I'm an 18 year old Australian who tries to think about things but fails, as we all do. I'll regret this in 2 years tops.

I think I have gender dysphoria so I'd prefer you use she/her pronouns on me. If not, he/him'll do.

User avatar
North German Realm
Minister
 
Posts: 2897
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby North German Realm » Wed May 22, 2019 9:17 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:Dutch minister for migration has resigned following it emerging that he covered up the extent of rapes and murders committed by migrants, sweeping those crimes under "Other" in his report on migrant crime.

Not very surprising, I must admit. Neither the "rape" part, nor the "hiding" part.
------------------
------------------
------------------
North Germany
Norddeutschland

Too many new nation ideas, too little time and energy. What to do, what to do, what to do...
Homepage || Overview | Sovereign | Chancellor | Legislature || The World
10 Feb, 1914
Norddeutsche Morgenpost: North German aviator Bruno Langer sets a new flight endurance record, flying nonstop for 14 hours 7 minutes. || 180 Yugoslavian soldiers arrested on board a steamer the port city of Avlona, Albania, charged with cospiracy against the Albanian Crown. || 195 Indian protesters killed by South African police while protesting against South African ban on non-Christian marriage. || Sweden delivers ultimatum to Denmark to join it under Personal Union.

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