Does NS Have a left wing bias?

[Katganistan]

Can we please get back to the topic at hand: Does Nationstates have a left wing bias?

[Communist Zombie Horde]

Can we please get back to the topic at hand: Does Nationstates have a left wing bias?

Yes

[Bezkoshtovnya]

Can we please get back to the topic at hand: Does Nationstates have a left wing bias?

Yes

How so?

[Guelder]

Can we please get back to the topic at hand: Does Nationstates have a left wing bias?

I've thought about it, like I said before, not really, I mean, everyone comes from different ideologies, which leads to tense debates, though I sometimes don't agree with the actions of the mods

[The New California Republic]

Can we please get back to the topic at hand: Does Nationstates have a left wing bias?

Yes

Any evidence of that?

[Quappe]

Side note - I've noticed that ever since Trump came to power, unproductive discourse that ultimately divides people (like this) is discussed so much more. In my country you know who's biased and to what agenda and you don't make a fuss.

Frankly, ideology is inescapable: you're going to see bias everywhere, and you're going to be biased against certain ideas. No sources are truly neutral and they never will be.

[Outer Sparta]

It's a public forum. Right-wingers post on it. Left-wingers post on it. Potential extraterrestrial beings post on it.

[US-SSR]

The truth has a left-wing bias.

[Forsher]

NSG always used to.

Most of the new posters who stick around these days whom I have noticed do not appear to be. And there's a good chance by new I mean anyone I don't remember from when I was most active (i.e. 2012-13).

Similarly after Neo Art and his sycophants all left (the minority banned), the feminist threads lost pretty much all their leftwing gender views and I have repeatedly told most of the people who remain that they've self-radicalised in the intervening 6/7 years, i.e. it's fair to say that NSG's non-feminists now take more rightwing views than they used to purely in terms of gender politics.

What people think they can get away with has also changed. NSG remains somewhere that people are able to post reasonably long posts with an expectation that they'll be read. It's similarly a place where the truth doesn't matter... and it never has been... but there are two changes in this category. In the old days you needed sycophants to get away with ignoring and/or misrepresenting the truth and this is probably still the same.

What I've noticed though is that where NSG used to love informal fallacies this no longer seems to be the case. In other words, NSG's average poster no-longer rewards people... or no longer gets a sense of being rewarded... for pointing out arguments that cannot substantiate the cases they're used to support (fallacious reasoning can accidentally be right, but a fallacious argument cannot substantiate its case all the same). Secondly, NSG's right wingers post as though they'll get people who (a) can be relied upon to interpret their points, snark and what have you and (b) no-one attributes this to sycophants any more. Previously, I would argue (and, of course, that I believe this is rather my starting point) that this used to only be true of NSG's leftists.

Obviously in the period I'm talking about people have begun to talk about a post-truth world. Trump may have helped encourage NSG's young-skewing population into right-wing positions or into the quasi-activism that posting on politics forums represent. Sure. I'll say that. But these changes in NSG are more the result of moderation's ongoing and detrimental fascination with megathreads.

Where we used to occasionally have months long bouts of feminist threads NSG now has a singular thread. Consequently, the only people who use it are the people who have been in it the entire time... and they're pretty much all non-feminists (see: paragraph three). So... anyone new who wanders into it is mostly exposed to the views that Trump's amenable too. Since younger people have much more malleable political opinions... I see NSG as much as a place of political building as discussion... this thread at least helps churn out pseudo-Trumpists. Fortuitously not many go into megathreads as new posters since the barriers to entry are very high. It's just that if they do get into the megathread format basically shut down what used to be a thriving exchange of views. There are no casual feminism posters on NSG any more because there are no longer casual threads on the subject... there's only the megathread and that's just for the hardcore.

The other major megathread I want to talk about is the Right Wing Discussion Thread. Now, I don't look at that anywhere as much as I do Feminist Megathread but it does appear to have a reasonably prominent non-right wing presence in it. The problem is that this is a nice draw thread. So, if you're a right winger on NSG this is the place you want to be. It's an area where you can gain a sense that there are people in NSG who broadly support your positions. And you get to engage with them in a much less focussed manner than you do in the old format of individual threads.

So, right here, there are two reasons for these threads to not fixate much at all on the quality of the conversation... defining quality in the curious sense of "truth-interested". Firstly, they're biased towards people who'll agree anyway... particularly because they share premises. If there's a marketplace of ideas that through an invisible hands of sorts reaches the best outcome, this submarket is simply going to settle on the most appealing rightwing view. Secondly, because it's not focussed on anything in particular it's by its nature less concrete and purposive... truth is a purpose. Furthermore, I would argue that this (and the LWDT too) are relatively chatty too... less discourse discussion and more conversation discussion. That's not a context for informal logical fallacies.

So, to recap, if you accept my premises... rooted as they are in anecdotes (as I have pointed out throughout this post)... then:

• NSG (at the very least) used to be more leftwing
• NSG's "new" structure divorces posters from both standard conceptions about how to arrive at the truth and the need to care about the truth at all
• NSG's new structure gives right-wingers confidence that they'll find a receptive audience (whereas previously this did not exist)
• The presence of particular political views encourages and creates more of those same views
• Getting away with BS is cool and attractive... and it's so much easier to get away with BS than it used to be
• Rebelling... even if it's against standard conceptions about how to arrive at the truth... is cool and attractive
• Halo effect further enhances the creation of rightwingers, leading to
• A better balance of left and right wing views in NSG but much less concern for the truth on all sides
• Corollary... NSG is now obsessed with hypocrisy

The truth has a left-wing bias.

Even if this is true, NSG is no longer a place where we can use the conceit that we'll arrive at the truth eventually... due to megathreads.

[Sanctum and Ultima]

It does, since "bad" NStats are concentrated within right wing nations and "good" ones in the left wing nation

[USS Monitor]

Obviously in the period I'm talking about people have begun to talk about a post-truth world. Trump may have helped encourage NSG's young-skewing population into right-wing positions or into the quasi-activism that posting on politics forums represent. Sure. I'll say that. But these changes in NSG are more the result of moderation's ongoing and detrimental fascination with megathreads.

I don't think Moderation has an ongoing fascination with megathreads so much as there was a period when a lot of things got rolled into megathreads, and now inertia keeps them going.

I actually dislike how many megathreads we have, but I think it would be controversial if I went around shutting them down.

[211 steel]

A very anti white community has risen out of a once diverse connected community where people were not prosecuted for their beliefs or country’s history. The left wing are tyrants who view white men as evil and promote violence almost solely against this demographic. As my nation is a 100% white and proud nation I am harassed. Nazi Europe was banned and the point of this game was the freedom to create without rules. Death to those who impose anti freedom of speech.

[Griemvarant]

It does, since "bad" NStats are concentrated within right wing nations and "good" ones in the left wing nation

That's the best summation I've seen thus far. It's weird that there aren't more or different metrics for creating a nation, because one that roots itself in culture and tradition is apparently a worse place to live than someplace that has no roots and just follows the mercurial whims of its citizenry.
It reflects on the biases of its creators and developers, which of course all games do. But it does feel a bit off, like there weren't enough people to give a reasoned counterpoint.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

A very anti white community has risen out of a once diverse connected community where people were not prosecuted for their beliefs or country’s history. The left wing are tyrants who view white men as evil and promote violence almost solely against this demographic. As my nation is a 100% white and proud nation I am harassed. Nazi Europe was banned and the point of this game was the freedom to create without rules. Death to those who impose anti freedom of speech.

Oh come off it. Please prove where you or others have been persecuted for being white on this site, and where others of attacked you and harrassed you just for being born white, I beg you. Freedom of speech doesnt apply here, seeing as how it is Max Barry's site and not the government.

[Sanctum and Ultima]

It does, since "bad" NStats are concentrated within right wing nations and "good" ones in the left wing nation

That's the best summation I've seen thus far. It's weird that there aren't more or different metrics for creating a nation, because one that roots itself in culture and tradition is apparently a worse place to live than someplace that has no roots and just follows the mercurial whims of its citizenry.
It reflects on the biases of its creators and developers, which of course all games do. But it does feel a bit off, like there weren't enough people to give a reasoned counterpoint.

It's common to see capitalist nations which are really bad according to NStats, thus making NS people stop using NStats. For left-wing nations like me, I'm just thinking of them as "badges", not the actual state of the nation

[USS Monitor]

It does, since "bad" NStats are concentrated within right wing nations and "good" ones in the left wing nation

That's the best summation I've seen thus far. It's weird that there aren't more or different metrics for creating a nation, because one that roots itself in culture and tradition is apparently a worse place to live than someplace that has no roots and just follows the mercurial whims of its citizenry.
It reflects on the biases of its creators and developers, which of course all games do. But it does feel a bit off, like there weren't enough people to give a reasoned counterpoint.

The way stats work is a combination of how Max set the game up when he originally created it, adjustments that have been made over the years, and what the issues editors put in when they add issues.

That said, it's meant to be open to interpretation which stats are "bad" and which are "good." The game doesn't assign those value judgements about which stats are "good."

[First American Empire]

It does, since "bad" NStats are concentrated within right wing nations and "good" ones in the left wing nation

That's the best summation I've seen thus far. It's weird that there aren't more or different metrics for creating a nation, because one that roots itself in culture and tradition is apparently a worse place to live than someplace that has no roots and just follows the mercurial whims of its citizenry.
It reflects on the biases of its creators and developers, which of course all games do. But it does feel a bit off, like there weren't enough people to give a reasoned counterpoint.

In particular, the developers seem to really, really like Keynesian Capitalism. If your nation uses a Keynesian economic system, your economy skyrockets into a utopian paradise very quickly.

They also get Civil Rights mixed up with Political Freedom a lot, leading to many issues that should lower Political Freedom instead lowering Civil Rights. This is really annoying for people like me who play nations intended to have high Civil Rights and low Political Freedom.

(I don't actually support eliminating political freedom. Just because I play an Absolute Monarchy in NationStates doesn't mean I support one in real life.)

[Infected Mushroom]

It is my understanding that the vast majority of moderators have views that are more aligned with those on the left wing.

I might be wrong though...

[Forsher]

Obviously in the period I'm talking about people have begun to talk about a post-truth world. Trump may have helped encourage NSG's young-skewing population into right-wing positions or into the quasi-activism that posting on politics forums represent. Sure. I'll say that. But these changes in NSG are more the result of moderation's ongoing and detrimental fascination with megathreads.

I don't think Moderation has an ongoing fascination with megathreads so much as there was a period when a lot of things got rolled into megathreads, and now inertia keeps them going.

I actually dislike how many megathreads we have, but I think it would be controversial if I went around shutting them down.

What's the point of being a battleship if you can't unilaterally exercise power for the greater good?

And, frankly, there are mods who just lock threads they don't like and no-one cares.

Tell you what, I'll report the Feminist Megathread next time it gets a post for gravedigging, you lock it and say no more feminist megathread. Might be stuck with the others.

[Diopolis]

NS is... odd.
NSG is still odd. There's definitely a concentration on the extremes- myself included- and there seems to be more of a left wing concentration than a right wing one. In terms of more politically "normal" people, there's a left wing bias.

[Auze]

The WA definitely does, don't know about the rest of NS.

[USS Monitor]

I don't think Moderation has an ongoing fascination with megathreads so much as there was a period when a lot of things got rolled into megathreads, and now inertia keeps them going.

I actually dislike how many megathreads we have, but I think it would be controversial if I went around shutting them down.

What's the point of being a battleship if you can't unilaterally exercise power for the greater good?

And, frankly, there are mods who just lock threads they don't like and no-one cares.

Tell you what, I'll report the Feminist Megathread next time it gets a post for gravedigging, you lock it and say no more feminist megathread. Might be stuck with the others.

The feminist thread is high on the list of ones I'd like to lock.

But you gotta admit locking a long-running thread like RWDT or LWDT would be received differently than locking some guy's thread railing against something he read on Tumblr.

[Forsher]

What's the point of being a battleship if you can't unilaterally exercise power for the greater good?

And, frankly, there are mods who just lock threads they don't like and no-one cares.

Tell you what, I'll report the Feminist Megathread next time it gets a post for gravedigging, you lock it and say no more feminist megathread. Might be stuck with the others.

The feminist thread is high on the list of ones I'd like to lock.

But you gotta admit locking a long-running thread like RWDT or LWDT would be received differently than locking some guy's thread railing against something he read on Tumblr.

Locking both of those threads would give ironclad evidence that the mods aren't biased against either political wing.

(But seriously, yes, I agree. They seem too popular.)

[Arcturus Novus]

NationStates is far too tolerant of a sizable far-right population to have a real left-wing bias.

[Nazeroth]

NationStates is far too tolerant of a sizable far-right population to have a real left-wing bias.

Only real left-wingers silence others am I right?