Univ. lecturer admits to insulting government at work

[Risottia]

While this might seem tyrannical McCarthyism, they genuinely have been only taking action in cases where such opinions are undeniable, such as when students secretly film their lecturers...

They secretly film their lecturers. The fact that they have to do it secretly makes me think that it is illegal (even in Turkey) to film people and publish the video without their explicit consent. Which means that those films aren't valid proof of wrongdoing by the filmed person, while being valid proof of wrongdoing by the people who made and published the video.

Also because video doesn't prove anything. There are things such as video editing and taking stuff out of context.

Also, a teacher isn't paid by the executive or the government. He's paid by the university. Public university =/= government.

That said, as teacher I refrain from expressing my political opinions to my students (both minors and adults), even when explicitly asked for. It wouldn't be professional for me to do so. If they ask questions which involve politics AND are somewhat relevant to the subject of the lecture, I try my best to represent all major point of views on the matter. I want them to learn to think for themselves, not to simply copy what I say out of authority.

[Ultramarr]

School are meant to be politically secular institutions not Marxist indoctrination camps.

[Risottia]

School are meant to be politically secular institutions not Marxist indoctrination camps.

But political secularity = cultural Marxism.

[United States of White America]

He should be fired.

[Purpelia]

As far as I am concerned teachers in any educational institution should definitively NOT express their political opinions for the same reasons that they should not date their students. A teacher, be he a university professor or a kindergarten one is in a position of power over his students. And because of this he does not even need to consciously want to abuse his position. It will just happen naturally because on one hand he is an authority figure the students respect and are used to taking knowledge from and on another students have a genuine interest in making him lake them. And it does not matter if these views are pro or anti government or what ever else. He needs to shut up.

As for firing teachers over this I completely agree. But that's mainly because I quite frankly think teachers get away with far too much anyway. If I had things my way with the educational system teachers would be held to an extremely high standard and under constant threat of being fired for failing it. Teachers are expendable. The many, many, many generations they bring up during their carriers are not.

[Uxupox]

School are meant to be politically secular institutions not Marxist indoctrination camps.

But political secularity = cultural Marxism.

Don't think so. Marx pushes for the expulsion of religious folks and the adoption of atheism as de-facto view of the state.

[Cthag-antil]

If you're not a socialist when you're young, there is something wrong with you.

[Katganistan]

This is a basic free speech thing. In fact some of my lecturers would say something like that with the expectation that we would challenge them in order to stimulate debate.

Yes. Universities are filled with adults; purportedly, they are able to think for themselves. The entire purpose of going to university is to be challenged by new ideas which you then choose either to reject or to consider, or to accept.

I often very vocally disagreed with my professors; I still graduated magna cum laude and was inducted into Phi Beta Kappa.

University doesn't need to be an echo chamber of whatever government is in power; it needs to be a place where different ideas are presented, debated, and people learn to think for themselves.

[Cthag-antil]

But political secularity = cultural Marxism.

Don't think so. Marx pushes for the expulsion of religious folks and the adoption of atheism as de-facto view of the state.

Good religion is evil.

[Katganistan]

So how is this indoctrination?

It's a captive audience.

Are you serious? These are adults. They can just NOT believe. They can walk out. They can go to the department chair and complain if they feel it's not appropriate.

This is NOT what college lectures are about:

If you're honestly so susceptible to believing something just because someone says it, the problem is not college.

[Trumptonium]

If you're not a socialist when you're young, there is something wrong with you.

While this is more true in the modern world, this is historically incorrect. Then again, it doesn't apply to all countries even today, like the US and Germany, and anything east of that.

Most of the current Conservative cabinet in the UK were members of Young Conservatives / Conservative Future in their student days. So was Vince Cable. Nick Robinson. Alistair Darling.

[Katganistan]

If by the time you hit college you aren't enough of your own person to have your own views, the problem isn't teachers speaking their minds

Bullshit. College/university is only a few weeks away from having to put up your hand for permission to go for a piss.

But it can be a basis for critical thought. Whether that continues and blossoms into personally developed ideas is up to the individual.

Speaking as someone who teaches people who have to put their hands up to take a piss, that doesn't mean they necessarily agree with anything you say.

Which is as is should be.

As for firing teachers over this I completely agree. But that's mainly because I quite frankly think teachers get away with far too much anyway. If I had things my way with the educational system teachers would be held to an extremely high standard and under constant threat of being fired for failing it. Teachers are expendable. The many, many, many generations they bring up during their carriers are not.

Careers. You meant careers.

If you're not a socialist when you're young, there is something wrong with you.

While this is more true in the modern world, this is historically incorrect. Then again, it doesn't apply to all countries even today, like the US and Germany, and anything east of that.

Most of the current Conservative cabinet in the UK were members of Young Conservatives / Conservative Future in their student days. So was Vince Cable. Nick Robinson. Alistair Darling.

Baloney. Why all the railing from conservatives over liberal indoctrination in US schools for the past 40 years if it doesn't apply here?

Just because someone says it doesn't mean it's true.

[Ifreann]

Clearly it should be forbidden for adults to discuss politics at work.

[Aellex]

If you're not a socialist when you're young, there is something wrong with you.

That's not the quote, tho. That is : "A young man who isn't a socialist hasn't got a heart; an old man who is a socialist hasn't got a head."

(Or alternatively : "My son is 22 years old. If he had not become a Communist at 22, I would have disowned him. If he is still a Communist at 30, I will do it then." )

[Katganistan]

Clearly it should be forbidden for adults to discuss politics at work.

No no no, only the RIGHT politics.

[Purpelia]

It's a captive audience.

Are you serious? These are adults. They can just NOT believe. They can walk out. They can go to the department chair and complain if they feel it's not appropriate.

This is NOT what college lectures are about:

If you're honestly so susceptible to believing something just because someone says it, the problem is not college.

It's not that you'll believe it out of hand. It's that you'll be compelled, even if only subconsciously to drift that way in order to signal agreement to the authority figure in hopes of getting on his good side. Anyone opinionated enough to constantly rant about politics in class is going to be the sort of person that also takes a preference to students who agree with his politics. Same thing for religion or anything else really. So there is always this incentive to comply even if just out of a cynical desire to fool him into liking you. And that in it self is bad because it encourages cheating as opposed to honest study. That's before we get to the fact that it will create an echo chamber where people will eventually drift that way and start believing in it.

It's the same thing as with sexual relationships. Yes you can say no. You are not being mind controlled. But are you really going to say no to someone who has such power over you? Many don't. Which is why it's illegal. Only with politics the weight of decision and cost you have to pay is trivially small by comparison.

You meant careers.

I am a programmer not a grammar teacher.

[Antarctic Commonwealth of Equality]

If you're not a socialist when you're young, there is something wrong with you.

I would just say that if people are not radical leftists(Economic, not necessarily social) they are misguided. Saying there is something wrong with them won't help with anything.

And saying that an ideology is only for one age group is simply odd.

[Risottia]

But political secularity = cultural Marxism.

Don't think so. Marx pushes for the expulsion of religious folks and the adoption of atheism as de-facto view of the state.

Marx pushing FOR something in the State? Seriously?

[Bakery Hill]

Don't think so. Marx pushes for the expulsion of religious folks and the adoption of atheism as de-facto view of the state.

Marx pushing FOR something in the State? Seriously?

What do you mean?

[Ifreann]

Don't think so. Marx pushes for the expulsion of religious folks and the adoption of atheism as de-facto view of the state.

Marx pushing FOR something in the State? Seriously?

"L'Etat, c'est moi." - Karl Marx.

[Risottia]

Marx pushing FOR something in the State? Seriously?

What do you mean?

I thought you had realised the main point of Marxism in politics is the abolition of the State.

[Forsher]

It is all the difference in the world between espousing political views and attempting to sway the views of the student. A couple of digs at, for instance, Trump (which is an ever popular practice here) over twelve weeks is nothing to worry about. At worst it's irritating on a personal level in the same way that you might hear a lecturer be criticised for being too arrogant or unfunny. It's not even a potentially professional issue in the way that being "too smart to teach" can be. How to identify the other case is unclear.*

*Is "rent control is the fastest way to destroy a city short of bombing it?" a joke? indoctrination? a brief lapse into personal politics? How about "legislation should be interpreted according to the purposive approach?" That's an outright political view... but it is also the legally mandated way of reading legislation, there's an Act and everything. What of "Judaism is a religion not an ethnicity?" Historiography? Political position?

It's a captive audience.

No it's not. Students are not forced to be students, or attend that course. They can switch, or go elsewhere. This is pure garbage.

There are very high switching costs associated with changing providers. Usually this involves having to physically relocate. There are also likely high switching costs associated with changing courses... it depends whether or not the particular provider allows students to do that for free at any point. For example, in my personal experience we get two weeks... which isn't necessarily enough contact time to make a decision about whether or not the lecturer wears their heart on their sleeve or is more problematic. Opting to wag involves several tradeoffs, although I would go as far to say that most students think little of these. The trouble is that one is still enrolled in the course and, typically, must still complete assessment. And finally it should be obvious that "choosing not to be a student" is a massive decision with many associated costs.

It's a captive audience... even without thinking about schools. It is disingenuous to pretend that "captive audience" means "receives all opinions as a sponge and believes everything you tell them". A captive audience is one whose ability to not receive stimuli is constrained.

[Bakery Hill]

What do you mean?

I thought you had realised the main point of Marxism in politics is the abolition of the State.

I thought you were aware of the crucial period before that?

[Stellar Colonies]

I don't think it would be a problem for students to know their teacher or professor's political views, but having it impact the course is completely unacceptable (As in having good grades and a good professional reputation with the teacher depend on agreeing with them).

[Greater Germany]

A lecturer should be free to express their opinion, and equally be challenged for it. Filming is of course a right listeners should have for a lecture.