Confederate Statue Toppled in North Carolina

[Valyrian Freeholds]

Can't help but notice you failed to answer there. Judging by your poor attempt to dodge can we assume you've realized your error? We'll consider the point conceded that force can legally be used to stop criminals. Whether it's necessary to stop the criminal act will be circumstantial of course, largely depending on whether they're willing to cease their criminal acts when challenged. If not, they decided they were willing to be shot in order to destroy history.

You seem to be implying that the only use of force is shooting.

This was basically my point but articulated far better. It's vandalism. We don't put security guards at graffiti hotspots to shoot anyone spray painting a wall.

[Tyskylvania]

Personally, I don't care for the statue. However, the act (from a legal standpoint) is undoubtedly hooliganism and should be punished as such. No distinction for the left or right wing, to the eyes of the law, this should be totally indifferent. If you don't like the statue, use legal means of getting it removed instead of acting like barbaric savages blinded by mob mentality.

This^

[Kennlind]

im torn on this
on one hand its tearing down history, on the other its cleansing the south of racism...
I don't think they should be taken down necessarily. We shouldn't topple any statues commemorating historical figures unless they were tyrants like Adolf Hitler.

[Aethrys]

Can't help but notice you failed to answer there. Judging by your poor attempt to dodge can we assume you've realized your error? We'll consider the point conceded that force can legally be used to stop criminals. Whether it's necessary to stop the criminal act will be circumstantial of course, largely depending on whether they're willing to cease their criminal acts when challenged. If not, they decided they were willing to be shot in order to destroy history.

You seem to be implying that the only use of force is shooting.

Welcome to America, Police have guns and are going to use them. It's a much safer option than wading in with a baton and being brained with a brick by some antifa college kid who now has your firearm and thinks he's with the 101st at Calais.

You seem to be implying that the only use of force is shooting.

This was basically my point but articulated far better. It's vandalism. We don't put security guards at graffiti hotspots to shoot anyone spray painting a wall.

Except "A wall" lacks irreplaceable historical significance. You've shifted the goalposts so far that your argument is totally unrecognizable. I accept your surrender.

[Alvecia]

You seem to be implying that the only use of force is shooting.

Welcome to America, Police have guns and are going to use them. It's a much safer option than wading in with a baton and being brained with a brick by some antifa college kid who now has your firearm and thinks he's with the 101st at Calais.

Kinda flies in the face of the use of force continum or reasonable escalation of force.
If I shove a police officer I should expect to be shot?

[Aethrys]

Welcome to America, Police have guns and are going to use them. It's a much safer option than wading in with a baton and being brained with a brick by some antifa college kid who now has your firearm and thinks he's with the 101st at Calais.

Kinda flies in the face of the use of force continum or reasonable escalation of force.
If I shove a police officer I should expect to be shot?

You should expect to be shot for failing to obey police commands let alone putting your hands anywhere near their firearm.

[Alvecia]

Kinda flies in the face of the use of force continum or reasonable escalation of force.
If I shove a police officer I should expect to be shot?

You should expect to be shot for failing to obey police commands

That's ridiculously excessive. Laughably so.

[Aethrys]

You should expect to be shot for failing to obey police commands

That's ridiculously excessive. Laughably so.

Give a cop attitude and refuse to take your hands out of your pockets after being repeatedly ordered to do so. I dare you.

[Valyrian Freeholds]

You seem to be implying that the only use of force is shooting.

Welcome to America, Police have guns and are going to use them. It's a much safer option than wading in with a baton and being brained with a brick by some antifa college kid who now has your firearm and thinks he's with the 101st at Calais.

This was basically my point but articulated far better. It's vandalism. We don't put security guards at graffiti hotspots to shoot anyone spray painting a wall.

Except "A wall" lacks irreplaceable historical significance. You've shifted the goalposts so far that your argument is totally unrecognizable. I accept your surrender.

First of all I never surrendered, you have a strange view of debating but I'll let it go.

Secondly, an officer should only discharge their weapon in self defence, not simply because they see a crime being committed. An officer should attempt to apprehend the person vandalising a memorial, in order for them to be charged and put through court. You are arguing that instead of this, officers should simply fire on the vandals without following proper procedure. You are essentially arguing for police misconduct in the defense of a memorial.

[Alvecia]

That's ridiculously excessive. Laughably so.

Give a cop attitude and refuse to take your hands out of your pockets after being repeatedly ordered to do so. I dare you.

"Sir, pat your head while hopping on one leg"
"What? No!"
*BANG*

[Vassenor]

That's ridiculously excessive. Laughably so.

Give a cop attitude and refuse to take your hands out of your pockets after being repeatedly ordered to do so. I dare you.

Then you'll get a facefull of asphalt. Not shot.

[Greater Cesnica]

(Image)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-uAZa4H1vk

As part of a series of protests in connection to the Charlottesville clashes, protestors in Durham, North Carolina scaled a Confederate monument dedicated to the "soldiers in gray", fastened a rope around it and dragged it down from its pedestal causing it to crumple into the ground. Personally, of all the debate over remaining Confederate monuments around the country and what to do about them, this seems like the worst possible outcome. There was no discussion, no vote, no consensus, just a mob of thugs whipping themselves into a frenzy who found out that damnatio memoriae gives them a hard on. Not to mention that none of them will be punished for this act of public vandalism, as per usual, leading us further into this cycle of allowing criminal property damage and violence as long as it occurred during a politicized riot. If a city or other local entity wants to keep a statue around, let them. If they don't, let the professionals remove it and come up with a museum or private collector to pass it to. ISIS is not a good example to follow when it comes to handling historical artifacts. Thoughts?

R.I.P Statue 2017

[The Widening Gyre]

That's ridiculously excessive. Laughably so.

Give a cop attitude and refuse to take your hands out of your pockets after being repeatedly ordered to do so. I dare you.

Doesn't exactly disprove the notion that said use of force is excessive.

[Alvecia]

Give a cop attitude and refuse to take your hands out of your pockets after being repeatedly ordered to do so. I dare you.

Then you'll get a facefull of asphalt. Not shot.

Now now, that sounds almost like a reasonable escalation of force. We can't be having that.

[Katganistan]

Clearly not. The levels of social unrest in the US are appalling. Traveling to the US at this point seems utterly unattractive. At least I don't have to deal with that type of crap in Mexico.

Hey, All countries have something bad going on...and the US is a very big place, this kind of stuff doesn't happen everywhere,but yes The pure American is usually lacking in Common Sense

*** Warned for trolling. ***

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Simple vandalism, nothing more, nothing less.

At least no one got hurt.

But really, they should have just asked the city to put it in a museum if they wanted to put away.

[Vassenor]

Then you'll get a facefull of asphalt. Not shot.

Now now, that sounds almost like a reasonable escalation of force. We can't be having that.

Well, if you're white as the driven snow and presumably male anyway. If you're any sort of minority then you're likely to get Mozambiqued.

[Belle Ilse en Terre]

Filthy thugs. The statues aren't hurting anyone and shouldn't be taken down by the local government is in the first place, much less by a bunch of violent SJWs... they'll probably get off with a warning or a fine, but I'll hold out hope that their asses rot in prison for this destruction of historical artifacts.

(Not a white supremacist in the least, just a pissed off enthusiast of history. Sad I even have to say that nowadays...)

Me too. And speaking of history, is it not ironic that those against neo-Nazis (among others) are following the nazi patern of removing art and reminders of history they do not like?

[Katganistan]

This is fucking revolting. Disgusting leftist vermin at it again.

*** Warned for trolling ***

[Aethrys]

Welcome to America, Police have guns and are going to use them. It's a much safer option than wading in with a baton and being brained with a brick by some antifa college kid who now has your firearm and thinks he's with the 101st at Calais.



Except "A wall" lacks irreplaceable historical significance. You've shifted the goalposts so far that your argument is totally unrecognizable. I accept your surrender.

First of all I never surrendered, you have a strange view of debating but I'll let it go.

Secondly, an officer should only discharge their weapon in self defence, not simply because they see a crime being committed. An officer should attempt to apprehend the person vandalising a memorial, in order for them to be charged and put through court. You are arguing that instead of this, officers should simply fire on the vandals without following proper procedure. You are essentially arguing for police misconduct in the defense of a memorial.

You gave so much ground you abandoned the argument and started an entirely new one. Other people call it strawmen and so on, I view it as an inability to argue the original point and withdrawing. So, a surrender.

Give a cop attitude and refuse to take your hands out of your pockets after being repeatedly ordered to do so. I dare you.

Then you'll get a facefull of asphalt. Not shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5J9NHAiC4E

Interesting theory, but in practice unlikely.

[Vassenor]

First of all I never surrendered, you have a strange view of debating but I'll let it go.

Secondly, an officer should only discharge their weapon in self defence, not simply because they see a crime being committed. An officer should attempt to apprehend the person vandalising a memorial, in order for them to be charged and put through court. You are arguing that instead of this, officers should simply fire on the vandals without following proper procedure. You are essentially arguing for police misconduct in the defense of a memorial.

You gave so much ground you abandoned the argument and started an entirely new one. Other people call it strawmen and so on, I view it as an inability to argue the original point and withdrawing. So, a surrender.

Then you'll get a facefull of asphalt. Not shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5J9NHAiC4E

Interesting theory, but in practice unlikely.

Right, because going for a gun is the same as not taking your hands out of your pockets.

[Alvecia]

Then you'll get a facefull of asphalt. Not shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5J9NHAiC4E

Interesting theory, but in practice unlikely.

In practice actually much more likely. Just count the number of people who get arrested without being shot. Or those charged with resisting arrest.
Sneak preview: it's greater than 0

[Tekeristan]

Nothing says patriotism quite like carrying the flag of a literal failed rebellion.

[Iwassoclose]

So what's the difference between this and that time a bunch of US soldiers yanked down that statue of Saddam?

Both are events to be celebrated

[Greater Cesnica]

Hey, All countries have something bad going on...and the US is a very big place, this kind of stuff doesn't happen everywhere,but yes The pure American is usually lacking in Common Sense

*** Warned for trolling. ***

Kat. I guess it's time for you to start fishing out trollers then... Because I've seen at least 100 posts saying that "Americans are dumb", "idiotic" "dumbasses", "retards", you get the idea.