Free public colleges

[Antesh]

Free Community Colleges/Trade Schools are a better idea. University should be what it is meant to be, the cream of the crop to lead certain industries and research, not something everyone does. Even people who do poorly in high school could prove themselves in Community College and transfer.

Given the fact that I included that universities would continue to be as selective as before I am not sure why you think this would be for everyone?

Almost everyone with higher than 3.0 GPA can get into at least one public university, just not at scholarship. If you just make these colleges blanket free, at their current admission standards, the value of a college degree will plummet to worthlessness - it would be high school 2.0.

If we make universities free, we should raise admissions standards like how it is in Germany and other such states. But then we have to live with the majority of people being excluded from upper education.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

It won't be 'free.' All you're doing is setting up an ever more expensive pay it foward system once you get out the other end.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Free Community Colleges/Trade Schools are a better idea. University should be what it is meant to be, the cream of the crop to lead certain industries and research, not something everyone does. Even people who do poorly in high school could prove themselves in Community College and transfer.

Given the fact that I included that universities would continue to be as selective as before I am not sure why you think this would be for everyone?

Also, even Public schools are hard to get into as a freshman straight out of high school.

For all the bitching about the UC system, they still are some of the fiercest schools to attend. Even the UT system is a fierce competition straight out of high school, despite their numbers of attendees.

[Antesh]

Free Community Colleges/Trade Schools are a better idea. University should be what it is meant to be, the cream of the crop to lead certain industries and research, not something everyone does. Even people who do poorly in high school could prove themselves in Community College and transfer.

Curiously, this is something I did myself. I went to community college and then went to college and graduated with a decent GPA and low amount of loans.

Thanks to that, I actually know a lot more about a lot of topics other people don't. I don't have a PhD, I just have a bachelor's, but it's not necessarily needed to have an MBA in order to be the leader of an industry, local or otherwise.

I went to CC as well, and received full scholarship from transferring. I will have next to no debt upon graduation, despite having basically no family money.

Public colleges can be made free, but only at higher admissions, while CC's should be free and available for all.

[Kubra]

In general, I value anything that might increase the educational attainment rates of a country more than I do individual salaries

It won't be 'free.' All you're doing is setting up an ever more expensive pay it foward system once you get out the other end.

I'm not seeing a problem here

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Curiously, this is something I did myself. I went to community college and then went to college and graduated with a decent GPA and low amount of loans.

Thanks to that, I actually know a lot more about a lot of topics other people don't. I don't have a PhD, I just have a bachelor's, but it's not necessarily needed to have an MBA in order to be the leader of an industry, local or otherwise.

I went to CC as well, and received full scholarship from transferring. I will have next to no debt upon graduation, despite having basically no family money.

Public colleges can be made free, but only at higher admissions, while CC's should be free and available for all.

I would agree with you that the more subsidized a college is, the more competitive it should be, but CCs and Technical Institutes/Vocational schools should be free and available. Speaking of which, I really dislike private Technical Institutes, personally. I think public and accredited technical institutes would be great, or for the colleges to incorporate vocations into their program, even though they're community colleges.

[United Muscovite Nations]

This will only cause credential inflation because if everyone has a degree, employers will just expect a 4 year degree instead of a high school diploma for a minimum wage job. People will take junk degrees because there is no student debt consequence for running up a five to six figure tab on the taxpayer's dime. Plenty of college graduates in the US never found a job relating to their major and still work at McDonalds, Walmart, or whatever to this day.

I'm sorry what the fuck are you talking about?
You know you don't need a HS diploma to work a minimum wage job right?
And are you aware that a HS diploma gets you almost nowhere anymore?

Yes, and that's a problem. Not everyone in the world is cut-out for a university education, so we shouldn't require an university education as basically a requirement to have a comfortable life.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I'm sorry what the fuck are you talking about?
You know you don't need a HS diploma to work a minimum wage job right?
And are you aware that a HS diploma gets you almost nowhere anymore?

Yes, and that's a problem. Not everyone in the world is cut-out for a university education, so we shouldn't require an university education as basically a requirement to have a comfortable life.

Define "comfortable", because what I think comfortable might not be your definition.

[Antesh]

I went to CC as well, and received full scholarship from transferring. I will have next to no debt upon graduation, despite having basically no family money.

Public colleges can be made free, but only at higher admissions, while CC's should be free and available for all.

I would agree with you that the more subsidized a college is, the more competitive it should be, but CCs and Technical Institutes/Vocational schools should be free and available. Speaking of which, I really dislike private Technical Institutes, personally. I think public and accredited technical institutes would be great, or for the colleges to incorporate vocations into their program, even though they're community colleges.

Of course, most private technical institutes are scams, and should receive no public funding.

[Katganistan]

City University of New York did that during the 60s and 70s. Both of my parents took advantage of the program and became teachers.

I don't see why it shouldn't happen again.

As for employers demanding college degrees -- yes, to a great extent, that happens now. Why not make it possible so that people are not stuck in jobs that are dead-ends or are simply unappetizing?

[Saiwania]

This is only true if the purpose of going to college is to train in a degree you will use for a vocation. It isn't. I personally used college to compensate my speech because my speech was not the greatest when I was in high school.

My larger point is that if a college education costs such a fortune, isn't the point to eventually come out of it more profitable than before and not instead being burdened with a debt you'll be paying off a decade or more down the road? With all the automation and social instability going on in the world today, the last thing that needs to happen is for anyone to lose money or get into debt.

If I wanted to lose money, I could've gone to Vegas and gambled. I had at least some expectation that college would help make me more competitive than if I stopped learning after high school. It seems to have been wasted effort for my local market anyways. Nobody wants to be sent to the poor house because they went to college and bet on a losing major.

My warning for the upcoming generations of college aged people is to not believe in the liberal professors who try to tell you that you'll have no future if you don't go to college. The truth is that unless you're a successful entrepreneur, it is harder to get employed than it was in the past regardless of if you go to college or not.

Don't believe in the American Dream, it is nothing but a consumerist trap that extols greed and materialism as a good thing. It encourages dangerous practices like buying on margin. No income? Who cares? Buy now and pay later! Only what happens when later arrives and you can't pay up like you're expected to?

[United Muscovite Nations]

Yes, and that's a problem. Not everyone in the world is cut-out for a university education, so we shouldn't require an university education as basically a requirement to have a comfortable life.

Define "comfortable", because what I think comfortable might not be your definition.

Making a living wage with some ability to pay for creature comforts.

[Neutraligon]

Given the fact that I included that universities would continue to be as selective as before I am not sure why you think this would be for everyone?

Almost everyone with higher than 3.0 GPA can get into at least one public university, just not at scholarship. If you just make these colleges blanket free, at their current admission standards, the value of a college degree will plummet to worthlessness - it would be high school 2.0.

You base this claim on what again. Once again colleges would continue to be as selective as before, the only difference is that students need not pay. You are only repeating your claim.

[Genivaria]

Define "comfortable", because what I think comfortable might not be your definition.

Making a living wage with some ability to pay for creature comforts.

Get ready to raise the minimum wage, which btw we need to do anyway because no matter how accessible higher education becomes we're still going to need people to flip burgers, bust tables, and clean toilets.
And at my job I do all 3.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

This is only true if the purpose of going to college is to train in a degree you will use for a vocation. It isn't. I personally used college to compensate my speech because my speech was not the greatest when I was in high school.

My larger point is that if a college education costs such a fortune, isn't the point to eventually come out of it more profitable than before and not instead being burdened with a debt you'll be paying off a decade or more down the road? With all the automation and social instability going on in the world today, the last thing that needs to happen is for anyone to lose money or get into debt.

If I wanted to lose money, I could've gone to Vegas and gambled. I had at least some expectation that college would help make me more competitive than if I stopped learning after high school. It seems to have been wasted effort for my local market anyways. Nobody wants to be sent to the poor house because they went to college and bet on a losing major.

My warning for the upcoming generations of college aged people is to not believe in the liberal professors who try to tell you that you'll have no future if you don't go to college. The truth is that unless you're a successful entrepreneur, it is harder to get employed than it was in the past. Don't believe in the American Dream, it is nothing but a consumerist trap that extols greed and materialism as a good thing. It encourages dangerous practices like buying on margin. No income? Who cares? Buy now and pay later! Only what happens when later arrives and you can't pay up like you're expected to?

You sound like someone who should be in a "gold buying program" of some sort.

And college education does make you more competitive, depending on what you focus on.

For instance, if you already are good at something, but you lack a good speaking voice, go to college for acting or something, become less shy at dealing with public performances. Hell, even take some speech classes, and focus your extracurricular time to getting certifications of learning what you need to learn to be successful at the industry you want to get into (unless you're looking at something like a chemist or doctor, then double major or major/minor are the ways to go).

Seriously, one of the most needed skills today that most employers bitch about is communication skills, especially with STEM. Improving your speech and performance in public cannot be stressed enough in today's world.

[Genivaria]

Almost everyone with higher than 3.0 GPA can get into at least one public university, just not at scholarship. If you just make these colleges blanket free, at their current admission standards, the value of a college degree will plummet to worthlessness - it would be high school 2.0.

You base this claim on what again. Once again colleges would continue to be as selective as before, the only difference is that students need not pay. You are only repeating your claim.

So now colleges would be selecting ONLY on merit instead of finances.
Not seeing the downside.

[Neutraligon]

You base this claim on what again. Once again colleges would continue to be as selective as before, the only difference is that students need not pay. You are only repeating your claim.

So now colleges would be selecting ONLY on merit instead of finances.
Not seeing the downside.

That is exactly what I mean.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Making a living wage with some ability to pay for creature comforts.

Get ready to raise the minimum wage, which btw we need to do anyway because no matter how accessible higher education becomes we're still going to need people to flip burgers, bust tables, and clean toilets.
And at my job I do all 3.

And that is my point, higher education is becoming a requirement for virtually everything. It puts a lot of people in debt for jobs that they can't pay that debt off with for a long time.

[Stormwrath]

Sure, if the taxpayer is willing to pay for it.

[New haven america]

Given the fact that I included that universities would continue to be as selective as before I am not sure why you think this would be for everyone?

Almost everyone with higher than 3.0 GPA can get into at least one public university, just not at scholarship. If you just make these colleges blanket free, at their current admission standards, the value of a college degree will plummet to worthlessness - it would be high school 2.0.

Colleges are already basically high schools right now though...

Literally, a HS degree will get you nowhere nowadays, you need at least an Associates degree to get anywhere.

[Noraika]

You base this claim on what again. Once again colleges would continue to be as selective as before, the only difference is that students need not pay. You are only repeating your claim.

So now colleges would be selecting ONLY on merit instead of finances.
Not seeing the downside.

Exactly! Just because colleges are free doesn't mean that they suddenly will lower their standards for acceptance of students. Students still have to fulfill their end of the bargain if they want to keep going to school in general.

With that said, I don't mind a commonplace college education. A skilled population is very good for business, and very attractive for business too. Besides people already need a degree to get into any non-minimum wage job nowadays anyways. It's already a need.

[Antesh]

Almost everyone with higher than 3.0 GPA can get into at least one public university, just not at scholarship. If you just make these colleges blanket free, at their current admission standards, the value of a college degree will plummet to worthlessness - it would be high school 2.0.

You base this claim on what again. Once again colleges would continue to be as selective as before, the only difference is that students need not pay. You are only repeating your claim.

It would allow far more people to attend college than previously. There would be no reason not to - everybody could go. The current admissions standards are too lax to allow for that.

Increase them, and my support is gained.

[Kubra]

You base this claim on what again. Once again colleges would continue to be as selective as before, the only difference is that students need not pay. You are only repeating your claim.

It would allow far more people to attend college than previously.

If this were the case, would it be a problem?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Almost everyone with higher than 3.0 GPA can get into at least one public university, just not at scholarship. If you just make these colleges blanket free, at their current admission standards, the value of a college degree will plummet to worthlessness - it would be high school 2.0.

Colleges are already basically high schools right now though...

Literally, a HS degree will get you nowhere nowadays, you need at least an Associates to get anywhere.

Well, that's not necessarily true.

Several professional licenses still only need a high school degree to get them, some need some training in the industry with a professional.

However, the high-school graduate self-made man still exists, it's just harder physically to achieve the same level of success.

[Neutraligon]

You base this claim on what again. Once again colleges would continue to be as selective as before, the only difference is that students need not pay. You are only repeating your claim.

It would allow far more people to attend college than previously.

Where did I say colleges would have to accept more students? I said that colleges would continue to be as selective as previously, and that includes numbers.

There would be no reason not to - everybody could go. The current admissions standards are too lax to allow for that.

There is no reason for the college to increase enrollment numbers. Colleges already do not accept everyone who attempts to enter with the minimum requirements, even if they can pay full tuition. There is no reason to change that.