The Order of the Grey Wardens

[Tim-Opolis]

Nice report, but since when have you started reporting detags?

Since we started getting roped into doing them. It's a tragedy, but one we must deal with.

[Cormactopia II]

Regions Liberated
Kantrias

Yeah, no. Hat's off to you for your successful operation, but a liberation it was not. The Legion was very clearly there to protect Kantrias, a friend of the Osiris Fraternal Order, from you. Kantrias' flag was retained, their old WFE preserved beneath our message explaining why we were there, their embassies left intact, and their tags all left the same. If it was "a brazen stealth operation," why would we fly our flags and announce our presence?

We were in Kantrias because we were concerned the Grey Wardens would invade it, and now you have, proving our concerns justified.

[Altmoras]

> Foreign region with the "Invader" tag occupies another region.
> Foreign region claims to be "protecting" Kantrias.
> Foreign region alters the WFE of Kantrias and orders native nations to hail the Foreign regions leader and endorse the occupying delegate.


We protected Kantrias from you, we restored the native WFE, banjected those that styled themselves the region's foreign masters, and suppressed the rmb posts made by invading forces. If we were raiding Kantrias we would have loudly announced it like we have for every single raid we've ever done. Osiris invaded and occupied Kantrias under false pretense, with a force so miniscule that when you couldn't hold the region your only recourse was to run to gameplay complaining about how your raid was ended in under a day.

Furthermore:

27 days ago: Regional Founder Cerian quilor ceased to exist.
68 days ago: Regional Founder The Memorial of Cerian Quilor ceased to exist.
97 days ago: Regional Founder The Memorial of Cerian Quilor ceased to exist.

Kantrias is vulnerable more often than not nowadays, if the Wardens possessed hostile intent towards the region we could have taken it at any time, but instead, the only time we've moved on Kantrias was to liberate it from occupation. And along that train of thought, if Osiris really wanted to protect Kantrias then the Legion should have deployed a month ago.

Write a better narrative next time. Maybe something about WMDs.

[Lord Ravenclaw]

Osiris has been friendly with Kantrias since late 2012, early 2013. It is not a stretch that Osiris might have sought to reinforce a former close friend who had fallen to the depths of time.

The Wardens on the other hand, given Kantrias' gameplay alignment in the past, are very unlikely to support one of the former imperial heavyweights.

A liberation it was not, indeed.

[Altmoras]

Osiris has been friendly with Kantrias since late 2012, early 2013. It is not a stretch that Osiris might have sought to reinforce a former close friend who had fallen to the depths of time.

The Wardens on the other hand, given Kantrias' gameplay alignment in the past, are very unlikely to support one of the former imperial heavyweights.

Osiris has been a lot of things over the past few years, you of all people ought to know that.

I don't really give a shit about Kantrias' former alignment when it actually did things. Osiris occupied a region, we kicked them out, I hate to break anybody's heart, but we didn't really think any further than that.

A liberation it was not, indeed.

I'm sure repeating "it wasn't a liberation" over and over again without a shred of evidence will change what the operation clearly was.

[Roavin]

The lead for the supposed Osiris "support" had posted this on the RMB:

Hmm, this region looks pretty dead.... I used to be a member here a long time ago. Oh well.

... followed by an RMB post of their endorser:

come back, let's revive this place!

Sounds like a native, except that nation had just moved in there, and in fact had pre-endorsed the lead.

12/11/2016, 2:10:46 AM: Godas Slade lodged a message on the Kantrias Regional Message Board.
12/11/2016, 2:08:59 AM: Godas Slade relocated from Ainur to Kantrias.
12/10/2016, 7:13:49 PM: Godas Slade's influence in Ainur rose from "Zero" to "Nipper".
12/10/2016, 5:50:36 PM: Godas Slade endorsed Amerikaner Free States.

I don't know what Osiris was doing. It's like they wanted to pull off a (badly executed) stealth raid, but then forgot they were doing so half-way through and instead pretended it was a support.

[Frattastan II]

It's still unclear why Osiris would "invade" a known invader region, stealthily or not.

[Glen-Rhodes]

The Wardens on the other hand, given Kantrias' gameplay alignment in the past, are very unlikely to support one of the former imperial heavyweights.

Kantrias was hardly a heavyweight. Maybe TNI's heavy paperweight...

Sounds to me like TGW liberated Kantrias from imperialism and whatever it is Osiris does nowadays

[Cormactopia II]

It's still unclear why Osiris would "invade" a known invader region, stealthily or not.

That's probably because we weren't invading it. Kantrias assisted Osiris with the establishment of the Osiris Fraternal Order in December 2013; under no circumstances would we have invaded Kantrias. The stealth -- which despite their mocking, worked well enough that the Grey Wardens didn't spot and intercept us -- was to ensure that we could take the Delegacy without interference from the Wardens or other so-called defenders who might prefer to do damage to Kantrias. In regard to the accusation that if we really wanted to protect Kantrias we would have moved in earlier, I will point out that we aren't defenders; we hadn't noticed until now that Kantrias was founderless and vulnerable.

Brunhilde, the Minister of Foreign Affairs from Europeia, can confirm that I contacted her shortly after we took Kantrias' Delegacy to ask if anyone in Europeia was still in contact with Cerian Quilor, the original Founder of Kantrias. I had asked her that, though I never got a chance to explain to her why I was asking, because I was hoping Cerian could return and take a leading role in securing Kantrias. In the end, the Grey Wardens invaded Kantrias before I could even find out if anyone was in contact with Cerian. That's fair enough, and I'm not salty over it; we didn't have enough support and I wasn't online at minor update. All I'm saying to the Wardens is don't call their invasion a liberation and accuse Osiris of invading a longtime friend.

Thanks to the Wardens, who invaded Kantrias to eject us and then left, Kantrias is once again incredibly vulnerable. We could re-take Kantrias to secure it, as we had intended, but we will in all likelihood be ejected again by "defenders" who would prefer to see founderless regions remain founderless and completely vulnerable to invasion so they'll have something to do.

[Altmoras]

Kantrias

Truly a devastated battleground horrifically invaded by The Grey Wardens. The way we restored the region to its original state before raiders defaced it, truly the dastardly work of hardened villains. Someone should draft a condemnation immediately.

Hate to break it to you, but the only Warden to invade Kantrias is former Warden-Commander Cormac Stark.

[Brunhizzle]

Brunhilde, the Minister of Foreign Affairs from Europeia, can confirm that I contacted her shortly after we took Kantrias' Delegacy to ask if anyone in Europeia was still in contact with Cerian Quilor, the original Founder of Kantrias.

While I'm not going to comment about anything else, at this time, I will say that Cormac did message me to ask if I knew of anyone that could contact Cerian.

[Cormactopia II]

Kantrias

Truly a devastated battleground horrifically invaded by The Grey Wardens. The way we restored the region to its original state before raiders defaced it, truly the dastardly work of hardened villains.

Hate to break it to you, but the only Warden to invade Kantrias is former Warden-Commander Cormac Stark.

Yes, you "restored" it to its vulnerable condition. And how long before your lousy spotting lets someone invade Kantrias and do actual damage? How long before you decide you're bored and you want to invade Kantrias like you've invaded The Kingdom of Kvatch and other imperialist regions just like Kantrias?

Your invasion of Kantrias did not "defend" Kantrias. The region remains as vulnerable as it was before we attempted to secure it.

[Altmoras]

And who is going to attack it? As I recall when KGB went for it there was a bit of an uproar. And it's not like TBR is still around to deface any region unfortunate enough to lose its founder regardless of history.

So far the only one to take advantage of Kantrias' vulnerable state is you.

As I made abundantly clear earlier, if we wanted to raid Kantrias it would be ours, and there would be nothing your 2 man force could do to stop us. I'm very sorry we liberated the region and removed your graffiti, (It was even dedicated to us, I guess that makes us ingrates), but we liberated it, end of story.

[Cormactopia II]

And who is going to attack it? As I recall when KGB went for it there was a bit of an uproar. And it's not like TBR is still around to deface any region unfortunate enough to lose its founder regardless of history.

So far the only one to take advantage of Kantrias' vulnerable state is you.

Who knows who might attack Kantrias? New raider regions with no connection to mainstream raiderdom and no concept of raider unity spring up on a regular basis, and there's always Nazi Europa and other fascist regions as well.

We were securing Kantrias because we thought you would eventually invade it (and you did, and you still might again). But there are plenty of others who might invade Kantrias. Kantrias made many friends but also plenty of enemies. Hence why we wanted to secure it.

[Altmoras]

And who is going to attack it? As I recall when KGB went for it there was a bit of an uproar. And it's not like TBR is still around to deface any region unfortunate enough to lose its founder regardless of history.

So far the only one to take advantage of Kantrias' vulnerable state is you.

Who knows who might attack Kantrias? New raider regions with no connection to mainstream raiderdom and no concept of raider unity spring up on a regular basis, and there's always Nazi Europa and other fascist regions as well.

We were securing Kantrias because we thought you would eventually invade it (and you did, and you still might again). But there are plenty of others who might invade Kantrias. Kantrias made many friends but also plenty of enemies. Hence why we wanted to secure it.

There's a difference between raiding a region and securing one with good intentions. Someone with your wealth of defending experience should know the difference.

[Cormactopia II]

There's a difference between raiding a region and securing one with good intentions. Someone with your wealth of defending experience should know the difference.

We were securing Kantrias with good intentions. That we did not follow defender procedure, in that we made an addition to Kantrias' WFE, does not mean we didn't have good intentions. I know defenders have trouble with this concept, but other regions are not required to do things your way and follow your procedures. You will not dictate our military policy and procedures to us.

You are correct that there's a difference between raiding a region and securing one with good intentions. The difference is that we were doing the latter, and you were doing the former. As a result of our actions, Kantrias would eventually have been secured; as a result of yours, it remains vulnerable to invasion and destruction. No so-called "detag" will change that.

[Gatito]

There's a difference between raiding a region and securing one with good intentions. Someone with your wealth of defending experience should know the difference.

We were securing Kantrias with good intentions. That we did not follow defender procedure, in that we made an addition to Kantrias' WFE, does not mean we didn't have good intentions. I know defenders have trouble with this concept, but other regions are not required to do things your way and follow your procedures. You will not dictate our military policy and procedures to us.

You are correct that there's a difference between raiding a region and securing one with good intentions. The difference is that we were doing the latter, and you were doing the former. As a result of our actions, Kantrias would eventually have been secured; as a result of yours, it remains vulnerable to invasion and destruction. No so-called "detag" will change that.

You see pal, we're no ordinary defenders...

[Tim-Opolis]

Yes, you "restored" it to its vulnerable condition.

I wouldn't call a 1-endo point who doesn't even log in at update a very secure hold either.

Let's make it very clear, Cormac. If we wanted to invade Kantrias, Kantrias would be flying a Grey Warden flag right now. Call it an invasion all you want, but it was a textbook liberation.

[Cormactopia II]

I wouldn't call a 1-endo point who doesn't even log in at update a very secure hold either.

Let's make it very clear, Cormac. If we wanted to invade Kantrias, Kantrias would be flying a Grey Warden flag right now. Call it an invasion all you want, but it was a textbook liberation.

I was unfortunately unavailable at that particular minor update and I don't make any excuses for that. That said, had the Wardens not interfered with what was clearly an operation to secure Kantrias, I would have accumulated more endorsements and would have been available at most updates until the region could have been fully secured. That would clearly have been more secure than the condition in which the Grey Wardens have left Kantrias, founderless with no WA Delegate, no active native WA nations in the region, and no password. You're like police who have responded to someone feeding a neighbor's cat while they're away on vacation by arresting the neighbor for breaking and entering, then leaving the door not only unlocked, but wide open, for actual burglars to just waltz in and take whatever they want whenever they want it.

I will never concede that your operation was a liberation because to do so would be to concede that our operation was an invasion, which would be a lie. More fundamentally, it would mean conceding that counter-invasion operations can only be valid if they are undertaken according to defender policies and procedures, the same abysmal policies and procedures that will in all likelihood now lead to Kantrias being invaded by a hostile force. Intentional or otherwise, you invaded Kantrias to remove forces friendly to Kantrias who were attempting to secure the region against invasion. You have now left Kantrias as vulnerable to invasion as it was before you invaded it, and then called attention to its vulnerable state by boasting about "liberating" it in Gameplay. Great job. With defenders like these, who needs raiders?

[Eostitorie]

I wouldn't call a 1-endo point who doesn't even log in at update a very secure hold either.

Let's make it very clear, Cormac. If we wanted to invade Kantrias, Kantrias would be flying a Grey Warden flag right now. Call it an invasion all you want, but it was a textbook liberation.

I was unfortunately unavailable at that particular minor update and I don't make any excuses for that. That said, had the Wardens not interfered with what was clearly an operation to secure Kantrias, I would have accumulated more endorsements and would have been available at most updates until the region could have been fully secured. That would clearly have been more secure than the condition in which the Grey Wardens have left Kantrias, founderless with no WA Delegate, no active native WA nations in the region, and no password. You're like police who have responded to someone feeding a neighbor's cat while they're away on vacation by arresting the neighbor for breaking and entering, then leaving the door not only unlocked, but wide open, for actual burglars to just waltz in and take whatever they want whenever they want it.

I will never concede that your operation was a liberation because to do so would be to concede that our operation was an invasion, which would be a lie. More fundamentally, it would mean conceding that counter-invasion operations can only be valid if they are undertaken according to defender policies and procedures, the same abysmal policies and procedures that will in all likelihood now lead to Kantrias being invaded by a hostile force. Intentional or otherwise, you invaded Kantrias to remove forces friendly to Kantrias who were attempting to secure the region against invasion. You have now left Kantrias as vulnerable to invasion as it was before you invaded it, and then called attention to its vulnerable state by boasting about "liberating" it in Gameplay. Great job. With defenders like these, who needs raiders?

Why didn't you just get your compadres over in TI to help?

[Funkadelia]

-snip-

It's okay. If you try harder, maybe next time if you try harder they'll give you a better promotion.

[Cormactopia II]

-snip-

It's okay. If you try harder, maybe next time if you try harder they'll give you a better promotion.

The Legion doesn't even have ranks, but speaking of trying harder, funny joke there!

[Funkadelia]

It's okay. If you try harder, maybe next time if you try harder they'll give you a better promotion.

The Legion doesn't even have ranks, but speaking of trying harder, funny joke there!

Anything for you, dear.

[WARDEN DRAKE]

Who needs ranks with only two people?

[Altmoras]

Intentional or otherwise, you invaded Kantrias to remove forces friendly to Kantrias who were attempting to secure the region against invasion.

Forces friendly to Kantrias?

Just to refresh everyone's memory the last time serious hostile forces made an attempt on Kantrias was in late 2015 when The Kingdom of Great Britain attacked as part of an at the time ongoing spat with the Land of Kings and Emperors.

And who pray tell sic'd Vac and KGB on this region Cormac now so desperately wants to "protect" from the ebil Wardens?

Well, I was the one who suggested the raid of Kantrias to Vac so I suppose I'm the "disreputable source." There was no "faulty intelligence"; I pointed out to Vac that Kantrias had been an ally of The LKE and I thought it still was -- that turned out to be incorrect, but it was on Vac to confirm -- and I also pointed out to Vac that The LKE were not the only ones who would be angry if Kantrias was raided. These were risks of which Vac was well informed, and he opted to move forward with the raid anyway, as did you, Your Majesty.

The difference between Asgard and The Kingdom of Great Britain -- besides the former having a more competent founder who has never destroyed a forum -- is that I didn't try to lie my way out of my actions to save Asgard from the anger of people I already knew would be angry.

While I'm here, I'll apologize to Albion as well. I apologize for raiding your treaty ally trying to be loyal and helpful to this lying farce of a King. Won't make that mistake again.

We would be remiss if we didn't also say a few words about the Great Heathen Army's participation in the attempted raid of Kantrias by The Kingdom of Great Britain. Asgard was happy to assist in this attempted raid despite the ostensibly impressive imperialist treaty network that Kantrias still enjoys, because we firmly believe that neither the extremely dead Kantrias nor any of its withering Old Imperialist allies offer anything of value to Asgard now or in the future. Instead, we look forward to working with upcoming, thriving regions like our own in the future.

We also look forward to watching The Land of Kings and Emperors, Albion, Europeia, The New Inquisition (it still exists, right?), et al., commit the troops and time necessary to either a) lock Kantrias behind an invisible password, depriving it of any population growth, or b) re-found, with the potential that the region will be permanently swiped by hostile forces. Because if you don't take the necessary security measures, we'll try again. Vikings are tenacious.

*Bolding mine.

Seems to me that the forces Kantrias needs most to be protected from are yours, and the Wardens have done just that.