Tiandi Big Discussion Thread

by **Toishima** » Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:31 pm

You walk through downtown Hapcheon and enter the same cheap imported DVD store with the perpetually-freezing air conditioning. The usual man in the anime t-shirt greets you as you walk through the door, the annoying bells jingling as the door swings closed. You ask him for a recommendation to burn off a weekend with less homework than usual. He hands you a DVD case. "A relatively new series from across the Jeobseon Strait," he says, of course referring to the Empire, "just been dubbed into Jeongmian, but you can watch with the original audio and subs. It's really good." You look at the cheap-looking cover with the generic Kaiju and mecha. The Akitsukunese made great shows but shitty posters and covers. You've been fooled by worse. You flip it over.

When we returned to the moon, something woke up.

Something ancient.

Something that followed us back.

2016. A Jeongmian moon mission goes awry when a rockslide is triggered in a lunar cave. When the explorers came back to Tiandi, something followed...

The first attack was four months later on Akitsukuni. A gargantuan beast emerged from the Arctic Ocean, destroyed the Imperial Navy and was only stopped by a nuclear missile. Five months later, the second attack occurred, leaving half of the Gungju continent destroyed but providing humanity with valuable information about these mysterious creatures, their origins and their weaknesses. They were coming from the moon in eggs disguised as meteors, feasted on the electricity of our major cities and were more than capable of besting any conventional army in existence. But the most important news was that they were killable by hitting them in the right places.

The fifth attack arrived a year later. This time, humanity was ready. After the second attack, the Council of Nations assembled a global joint task force to monitor every egg that entered the atmosphere and to combat these creatures for the protection of humankind. Furthermore, the Tactical Surface Fighter, a new Akitsukunese invention that soon spread across the developed world, revolutionised combat against giant creatures by providing a manoeuvrable large-sized vehicle capable of striking the creatures' weak points and avoiding their attacks. For the first time, humanity could claim a true victory. But there is no time to celebrate.

As more eggs begin enter the atmosphere, sometimes simultaneously, the war against these lunar beings is picking up. At the same time, international tensions due to the overpowering nature of Tactical Surface Fighters threaten the united front humanity wishes to present against this threat.

The question still remains: What are these creatures and why were they on the moon...?

My friends, it has finally descended upon us.

by **Toishima** » Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:37 am

This is regarding the NPC issue, which some of us have severe concerns about.

As of this writing, there are now 20 NPCs on the map (Cosenza (Italian-Spanish), Asturias (Mediterranean-Spanish), Juzisyeli (Kazakh), Zalland (Dutch-Flemish), Abkailha (Manchu), Xigaze (Tibet), Coenggoz (Zhuang), Fukoet (Hakka), Paiuguok (Fujian), Hukoq (Shanghainese), Sasan (Unable to find through forum search), Fakuku (Okinawan), Sisimut (Inuit), Conashur (Iroquois), Sakaipa (presumably Central American), Nesh (Hittites), Tuyserkan (Iranian), Sikihaw (Cebuano), Jitgok (Filipino), Ghorkalistan (Nepali)).

Of these, Ghorkalistan is the only one that is important to any plot, as it is the setting for an upcoming war RP. Ratanakiri seems to have been promoted from NPC to shared puppet. The others exist to serve as rough guides to what kind of nations are in those areas, providing specific regional detail than "East Asian", "North American" etc. [1]

There are 33 player nations in Tiandi, and of these, 15 are controlled by 4 players, meaning that there are only 22 players in Tiandi, a large amount of which are far from active. What this all means is that on the surface Tiandi essentially has 53 nations for 22 players, and more than half of them are either NPCs or puppets. Except for Ghorkalistan and some that are mentioned in a few histories, the majority of NPCs have little to no bearing on the rest of Tiandi except providing that real-world culture's existence into the world of Tiandi, and cannot even be RPed with or in as they are NPCs.

This is a problem as not only are we giving a false sense of scale and activity, these nations seem to take up space on the map that could confuse new players, who would avoid these areas. Confusion will arise from having names over plots, no matter what colour they are. That they are grey means nothing as they do have very clear names over them (some even with the official-looking Chinese characters, or labelled with numbers due to size as "numbered nations". It's also worth noting that nowhere is it stated on any of the OPs that NPCs are grey). This suggests that whoever claims that land will have to inherit the name, or that it is untouchable or reserved. There is little visual indication that NPC plots can be claimed except one easily-missed line in the OP, which still leaves it up to interpretation if the names and histories of the plots must be adopted or not.

Also note that before said line in the OP; "Land taken up by NPCs may be claimed", the term NPC was never explained or even mentioned until much later, where "NPCs can be used and developed by anyone, but anything major should be up to the decision of the regional leadership" still does not explain their passive and entirely replaceable nature.

Furthermore, the very existence of names and detailed stats for them and backgrounds (even minor ones) further make these NPCs seem far more solid than they are implied to be by Arum. Even one-liners like "Diverse Naga peoples were eventually brought under the rule of the Angami Naga group in the 17th century with the aid of Sinjun guns. However, they ended up succumbing to the forces of colonization" (Kewhira) suggest that there is already a preestablished storyline for that area, which may turn new players away even if their planned nation is the exact same culture as already placed. That some NPCs are even coloniser nations just makes things even more confusing at a glance.

An argument is that the NPCs and their backgrounds exist to provide interaction points such that we can have a coherent world history. To this I question, if we build our history with these regions using these stats and backgrounds, if and when a new player takes that land and changes the history of the area, won't we have to change everything, creating even more work? Furthermore, some NPCs like Sisimut, Hukoq and Fakuku have never been interacted with in any way and are rarely to never even discussed. Some of the cultures are also somewhat obscure to the point that it is unlikely many new applicants would make a nation with a similar culture, such as most of the Chinese NPCs.

Most of their given names also do not give any clues as to what the NPC's culture is unless an extensive search is done to find that particular app, some of which are not even on the new thread, making the idea that the NPCs can help new applicants decide what culture their nation should be largely defunct. Not everyone is knowledgeable in these cultures and languages; if I did not know Fakuku was Okinawan, it would just look like some kind of semi-joke island nation ("Fak U"), and I never knew what Juzisyeli was before I did the research for this post.

Is the increasingly large amount of NPCs born out of a desire to do worldbuilding, by bringing in as many real life cultures into Tiandi as possible such that Tiandi can seem "complete"? More than one person have seen this NPC horde as a problem. The NPCs cause lots of confusion and may deter new players from entering, especially if they, like many, don't read the OP thoroughly enough to see that single line, which is never mentioned again in any of the guidelines.

Near the start of Tiandi, Arum decided to introduce NPCs to fill up the map's empty spaces. While the map was empty back then, it is not empty today, and all continents of Tiandi (minus the Australia-like continent) are represented by at least one player nation, puppet or not. Arguably, NPCs of every culture are no longer needed, especially if nobody is even able to interact with them. We should not just have certain cultures for the sake of having these cultures, but if we want to RP with a certain culture such as Chinese-influenced Filipinos or Hakkas, these nations should be made into puppets and not NPCs, which merely appear to freeze up that spot of the map and cannot even be dealt with. (Though the numerous underdeveloped puppets are another problem we face)

I suggest that named NPCs be eliminated and those we wish to preserve as they are be puppetised to a reasonable extent. They can be replaced with cultural suggestions perhaps on the OP or additional information post to shape peoples' decisions rather than subtly directing them to make an Iranian nation where Tuyserkan is located, for example. We may even directly advertise plots of land with attached cultures for people to consider rather than make and name an NPC in that space. This will clear up the map of these dubious grey nations and remove much confusion, and make more possibilities for incoming players.

Additional Information

[1] Arum on IRC

Puppets by Owner:

As Ratanakiri exists in a very strange position, held by 3 players, it is not included in this post.

by **Girejiazadiya** » Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:21 am

Hey guys, just wanted to enquirer if I could expand my plot. My idea is either to also occupie the plot currently taken by the Tuyserkan NPC or swap plots with him.

If I take over his plot we could just shift Tutserkan over to the plot held by the NCP Nesh and then move Nesh over to the plot directly to his west. The plot swap is self explanatory. Preferably is just rather take over his plot, but I'm open to to talking it out with you guys if it's an issue or if issues arise.

by **Arumdaum** » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:37 am

Girejiazadiya wrote:Hey guys, just wanted to enquirer if I could expand my plot. My idea is either to also occupie the plot currently taken by the Tuyserkan NPC or swap plots with him.

If I take over his plot we could just shift Tutserkan over to the plot held by the NCP Nesh and then move Nesh over to the plot directly to his west. The plot swap is self explanatory. Preferably is just rather take over his plot, but I'm open to to talking it out with you guys if it's an issue or if issues arise.

Yeah, it's fine! Humans players have precedence over NPCs; NPCs can be moved or removed for them anytime.

by **Toishima** » Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:25 pm

And this just reinforces my point.

by **Arumdaum** » Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:29 pm

Perhaps there is some confusion over what constitutes an NPC, and the difference between a puppet and an NPC. Also, if there is insufficient information regarding NPCs in the OP, then I can simply add it.

A puppet is, for all purposes, a player nation. It is essentially like someone's main nation apart from the level of activity that would be associated with one (even then, many mains are heavily underdeveloped, or not really developed at all). A puppet would thus take precedence over an NPC on the map, and cannot be as easily removed from the map as an NPC, they would have to be asked if they are fine with the removal of the puppet. Land occupied by puppets is also generally not up for grabs.

Thus, puppetizing NPCs would result in actually making those lands unavailable.

NPCs are not controlled by a single person, but rather by everyone in Tiandi. They can be developed, RPed, and interacted with by anyone in the region. NPCs also exist for varied purposes beyond RP interaction. Their existence does not require having an RP associated with them, nor do they exist solely to be RPed with (though that is fun and can always happen). They help to fill in the blanks of a world that we yet do not know much about, and help to remind us that the world still exists beyond human-controlled nations. While RP is vital to Tiandi and a very important aspect of it, Tiandi is more than a region meant for just roleplaying, and has always been that way.

The filling up of a region allows for the creation of regional trends in that area, and then later, global trends in Tiandi. We can better plan the historical transmission of goods, ideas, weapons, people, crops, and diseases. The creation of Sinju NPCs was useful in giving a better idea of the historical location of Tianqi (for me and Sab anyway, since most other people seem to ignore Tianqi

), whose existence is vital in the formation and development of the modern states of Sinju.

Having literally nothing (or just a plot) creates high levels of uncertainty which make it more difficult to develop things. The majority of the map is most likely never going to be claimed (and thus never interacted with) unless we either shrink the map to one where the development of civilization stops making sense or start allowing people to claim areas the size of Russia or the US. It is very unusual that we simply just ignore the vast majority of the world. While most people still ignore NPCs, they nonetheless provide something.

The creation of massive settler states to fill up the map (only mentioning this as it has been brought up before) such as the United States, Argentina, and Canada cannot be recreated on the current Tiandi map apart from on the Australia-like continent and southern Cheongju. Despite similar latitude to and less isolation than Gungju, Uju is most targeted for settler states only due to how isolated Native Americans were nearly wiped out with disease upon the arrival of Europeans IRL. However, Uju is reserved, and will remain reserved for Native American nations.

NPCs are also useful in moderating the excesses of human-controlled countries, which for the most part I am more lenient with. If NPCs did not exist, I would have to require several countries to have smaller populations and GDP per capitas in order to prevent Tiandi from being excessively wealthy or controlled by excessively populous nations. Furthermore, there would have to be more stringent controls on government type, resource wealth, and so on.

Most nations should be poor and small, but it is heavily unlikely that people will create poor and small nations, especially for their mains. NPCs help allow for the creation of these small, developing nations.

In fact, the birth of the numerous Sinju NPCs was due in part to the rather authoritarian, monarchical, and one occasion even medieval sensibilities of nations in the Sinju area, so there could be more republics, more democracies, and greater amounts of liberalism in the area which should be most friendly to liberalism.

Furthermore, the creation of NPCs in Gungju were also in part to have Gungju poorer on average, as back then numerous Gungju states were claiming to be petrostates in order to be wealthier. People who do make Gungjun nations also always base them around a single language and ethnicity, while many postcolonial states should have been created without regard for ethnicity or language (and without much knowledge of it either).

I would prefer if player-controlled nations were given more leeway, as it encourages people to stay and create a nation that is more in line with what they want in this region.

I believe that we should have greater representation of cultures that are not represented through human-controlled nations. They help to provide greater amounts of diversity and prevent things we have had in the past such as six Mandarin nations in Sinju and excessive amounts of Japanese nations that somehow all speak IRL Standard Japanese. In Sinju, it helps people to be aware of the linguistic and cultural diversity present in East Asia that many people often simply ignore, especially as East Asians are stereotyped and seen in the West as being all the same. I see no reason as to only create NPCs with cultures that someone is likely to make a nation with.

Creating nations that possess IRL unpopular cultures is something that is intentional. It is because that no player would ever make a nation with that culture that I choose to create an NPC with that cuture (though obviously not all the NPCs are of unpopular cultures, such as the recent Persian one). I would like NPCs to last as long as possible; in the past, if someone created a player nation with a culture that was represented by an NPC, I would remove the NPC (e.g. Zaihan and Behtang).

The existence of nations such as Sinicized Filipinos also gives people new ideas to play with once they are more familiar with the region.

There is nothing wrong with more of the map being filled up. NPCs are of the same color as unclaimed plots, in a color that also suggests that suggests they can be claimed. Also, if the entire map was filled up with NPCs, then there be no difference in the unclaimed plots. Any confusion that may arise can be easily cleared up by asking any of the more established members of Tiandi. Many applicants also ask me to place them wherever is fitting rather than creating their own claim.

If an NPC ever becomes that important to one's canon, then it can be upgraded to a puppet. NPC removal may require some revision in one's history; however, inactivity and the removal of player nations (which happens regularly; in fact, I would argue that NPCs are on average longer-lasting than player nations) would result in the same.

NPCs as a cultural locator also do not exist merely to guide new players who are making their apps. I assume that most people would be unaware of what they are, and will remain ignorant of it unless it is neighboring them. They provide reference for everybody in the region and for myself in particular.

NPCs also encourage people to claim in areas that lack other players. It helps them to develop a better idea of what their nation will be like, and what it would have been like in the past. It gives people nations for their main to interact with without having to create a wholly new state in a place filled with more activity such as Sinju or South Yoju.

I do not think that there are many problems with making us look more active than we are. The appearance of activity encourages more people to join us, with the appearance of inactivity resulting in less people wanting to join.

Rather, what I think should happen is filling up the entire map with NPCs, ones that will not really offend the sensibilities of those in the region. Technically, the entire world is already filled with NPCs; it is just that they do not have names and stats yet. If there is uncertainty regarding gray plots with names on them, then filling up the entire map with them would remove such uncertainty.

by **Arumdaum** » Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:39 am

@Heidi

While your stats and location are fine, there are some issues that are present in the canon that you seem to desire. For example, I do not think a rampage throughout Gungju in the early-mid 20th century is really possible, considering that Amazonia would be rather weak and small facing against advanced Sinju colonial troops.

A lot of the canon your are proposing does not work with the established canon of Tiandi.

Perhaps you may want to push such invasions into the past. After all, it is not like only the past few hundred years of history count as history.

How extensive would colonial influence in your nation be today?

I also think you should work more on your wiki so we have a better idea of it! To others who are reading this but haven't really worked on their wikis, you should also do more wiki work!

by **Toishima** » Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:44 am

What's the status of whaling in Tiandi?

If it's illegal Akitsukuni is going to have actual warships guarding their research whaling vessels from potential Sea Shepherds and the like because we give no shits.

Whale products could be high priced illegal or illicit imports amongst the upper class in some Sinju nations perhaps.

by **Amazonian Fifth Legion** » Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:28 am

@Arumdaum

I'll post here since people are forgetting everything I say.

1. Understood, I'll put it to rest.

2. Well yes, but then Haeseon/Aki yelled at me that I could not even do that. I reinvented my country to be a bit more insular in response.

3. Well, it would be very extensive, but not as much as the rest of the continent. That can be discussed later.

4. you gotta understand that I have writer's block problems. If I force myself to write the writing comes out cringeworthy, which I don't want.

Look, I never really wanted to rival Sinju nations, I just wanted to be a special snowflake, yes? I'll admit that. Plus, my nation is a island for a reason. If it was attached to the continent, I'd play a failed state because it would make sense.

by **Arumdaum** » Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:22 pm

What are some commonalities of the states of Sinju?

1. Their languages are heavily influenced by Chinese characters, and incorporate a significant amount of borrowed Sinic vocabulary.

2. Sinju was the birthplace of Sinju philosophy, and is where it has the most influence. The states of historically shared a Confucian (technically, whatever Tiandi's equivalent of Confucianism is going to be) philosophical worldview.

3. Sinju cultures were heavily influenced by Tianqian civilization and in several ways carry on its legacy.

4. Chopsticks are used when eating. While the usage of chopsticks would be expanded around the world as a symbol of "modernization" and be seen as an example of fine dining in much of the non-Central world, the usage of chopsticks would be especially prominent in Sinju.

5. The countries of Sinju have similar traditional architectural styles.

6. Mahayana variants of Buddhism had a significant impact on the culture of Sinju, although elite culture and the scholar-gentry class, especially from the early modern period onward often had a disdain for and suppressed religious organizations that were seen as being too organized.

7. These states historically wrote important documents in Classical Chinese (Tianqian).

8. The societies present in Sinju were sedentary and agrarian.

9. These states adopted civil service examination systems initially based upon knowledge of subjects such as history and the classics.

In the modern day, Sinju is often also defined in terms of level of wealth and political system.

Countries in Sinju tend to be:

More democratic
Have stronger rule of law
Wealthier

by **Sjalhaven** » Sat Aug 06, 2016 5:27 pm

I'm working on the languages of Madyanarya and I'm searching for alternative language and language families name. A number of sub-branches are omitted.

So far I have:
* Indo-Iranian languages (Aryan)
** Iranian languages (North Aryan languages)
*** Old Persian (High Madyanaryan)
*** Avestan (unchanged)
** Indo-Aryan languages (South Aryan languages)

I'm especially looking for alternatives for Caucasian (languages of the Caucasus), Turkic and Mongolic languages. I thought Mongolic languages could be named after a name for the northernmost region of Yoju.

by **Arumdaum** » Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:09 pm

Frequently, Gungju has been coming up in our conversations, with a great deal of uncertainty regarding its role in Tiandi. People are curious as to why it wasn't Gungju that colonized the world. However, please note that East Asians dominating the world instead of Europeans is the entire fucking point of Tiandi. If you want to complain about how Europeans are not important enough here, feel free to create your hyper-developed superpower Euro state that colonized a bunch of the world anywhere but here! Thanks!

Understandably, people want to have a better idea of what Tiandi's various cultural regions are like. I did not think that people would care much about a part of the world that in terms of canon is largely unimportant and seem to have not explained in enough detail. I will thus attempt to clarify things more.

Clarifying the status of Gungju, I have largely been imagining it as a relatively unimportant and uninteresting (apart from how different it would be from IRL) part of the world that people would not really care about. Gungju is a continent on the western edge of Tiandi's map. It is roughly 10 million km², making it roughly the size of China, the United States, Canada, or Europe (incl. Russian/Kazakh/Caucasian Europe). Almost all nations in it are developing, are relatively unstable, and have weak democratic institutions.

Keeping in line with previous discussions, Gungju should also prominently feature Christianity and Christian terrorists that are known as "crusaders."

Too often in the past, Gungjun states wanted to be petrostates in order to justify them being wealthier, as people were OOCly uncomfortable with having poor, unstable, and weak European nations without much influence.

Having weak European nations, however, was also borne out of OOC necessity. It was my belief that if given too much influence, they would start asking for their own colonies and perhaps even be on equal terms with East Asian nations here. Arguments regarding who would have more influence would inevitably result in unnecessary drama and people would naturally just assume European nations have more influence. This is a big reason as to why European settler states and the existence of former European colonies are strictly prohibited.

In this region, people have been asking why Gungju is not very developed, and why Sinju colonized at all. However, it is never asked why European countries ended up colonizing, and it is never questioned why other regions of the world do not colonize. This is mainly Europe holds an important position in the real world due to its colonization of the Americas and later domination of the globe. People thus assume that Europeans should also be fairly important here. People are largely attuned and used to the idea of Western dominance and supremacy throughout the globe, and often feel uncomfortable with any changes to it. They also feel that any deviance away from this is also "unrealistic."

Such nonsense. Tiandi as a region is significantly more realistic than other regions, in part because we actually try to make the East Asian domination of the world plausible as opposed to simply assuming European dominance on the basis of nothing other than assuming that is somehow normal and simply natural (with cultures based on those IRL on a map that is not a map of Earth, and moving beyond things such as whether humans would even exist on such a planet).

Sinju was intentionally shaped and created to be more maritime, more divided, and be the focus of the region by being placed in the center of the map. However, even then, why not simply assume East Asian states in Tiandi had reason to colonize and then industrialize, like is always assumed for European nations in every other region?

Honestly, the geography of Uju is much more suited toward having a portion of it becoming the dominant area of the world than that of Gungju's. Native Americans here are much more connected to webs of trade and movement than Europeans, would have developed highly advanced societies with a secondary products revolution than IRL, and would have been exposed to diseases from domesticated mammals such as smallpox and measles at different times from relatively early points in time. So why isn't there any talk about Uju and what is up with this obsession with Gungju?

In our history, Gungju would not have developed very advanced civilizations, and not have developed ships able to traverse the 5000 km of ocean required to reach Uju in order for direct trade and contact. I imagined at the time of "discovery" by Sinju, Gungju would be predominantly occupied by decentralized feudal states and kingdoms.

There is definitely more to say, haha, but I'll post about it later.

by **Arumdaum** » Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:37 pm

Also, I think that reverse colonization is rather fun and non-offensive.

If offensive, I think it is really only offensive to those who feel uncomfortable that people they see as below them have power over them in this region. There's no IRL wounds for the imaginary salt to hurt.

I'm not going to really expand because I'd rather not bring up politics, but I honestly don't really care if people think that we are Asian supremacists for having this kind of stuff, especially since we don't believe in this stuff IRL and the people who complain about this stuff are generally the same people who believe in innate Western superiority and wouldn't bat an eye to making Westerners much more powerful and superior than is realistic.

-------

Also, in response to some people, history does not work like a game of Civ, haha. Places don't "advance into the Renaissance" or "stay stuck in the Middle Ages." There are always both changes and continuities in different regions of the world, and having something like the Renaissance (which was not responsible for European domination of the world beginning in the 19th century) is not like some lucky event that just happens.

People create terms to describe various stages in various areas' history, but the lives of most people would not experience significant change prior to the sustained and rapid economic growth that came with industrialization. I hate to talk about Crash Course, haha, but John Green is right when he says that Italian peasants would not have one day gone up to their neighbors and said "Hey, we're living in the Renaissance now!"

by **Sabara** » Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:40 pm

Arumdaum angry

No but seriously, he's right.

by **Daeseong** » Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:53 pm

For those who are looking at this thread from the outside, let me just say this: this region is not Asian supremacist. We don't, IRL, see ourselves as better than westerners. Many of us simply grew tired of the same cookie cutter regions where there is always a militaristic Germany, a cultured France, maritime Britain, etc. After a while, such arrangements are vapid and lack innovation at best. Most of us live in the western world and appreciate most aspects of it. But if NS is an exercise in creativity and escapism, why bind ourselves to IRL?

Not that Tiandi is innately more creative by virtue of rejecting the Eurocentric narrative; we instead wish to explore a world in which the assumption that Europeans are somehow better by innate virtue of culture or such, and not by geography or circumstances, is rejected and where Asian cultures reign supreme. It's not an Asian supremacist setting at all. We don't mount ourselves on a pedestal. Not at all.

Furthermore, we are not weeaboos. I think I might be the only member in Tiandi who watches anime, and even then sparingly with my girlfriend, who forces me to watch it. We are interested in Asian culture, yes, but that doesn't make us obsessed and super into kawaii or anime or whatever. If you don't like the fact that your respective European nationality is being colonized, ask yourself why we would be okay when you joke about the same in your own regions for our own cultures.

by **Girejiazadiya** » Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:07 pm

As a guy who left a pretty well developed and powerful Nordic country to come here as a mid-level Kurdish state I can understand the frustration of not being able to place yourself into situations with the bigger guys. Although simply complaining and trying to bend the already established laws of the region isn't how you do it. If you want to play a European nation here is possibly the most entertaining yet difficult things to do here in Tiandi. Taking on Gungju is probably only for the players best able to manipulate situations and the flow of the region as well as those who can create good enough geopolitical situations to attract the community into your situation and be a part of the region.

by **Sabara** » Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:29 pm

Daeseong wrote:For those who are looking at this thread from the outside, let me just say this: this region is not Asian supremacist. We don't, IRL, see ourselves as better than westerners. Many of us simply grew tired of the same cookie cutter regions where there is always a militaristic Germany, a cultured France, maritime Britain, etc. After a while, such arrangements are vapid and lack innovation at best. Most of us live in the western world and appreciate most aspects of it. But if NS is an exercise in creativity and escapism, why bind ourselves to IRL?

Not that Tiandi is innately more creative by virtue of rejecting the Eurocentric narrative; we instead wish to explore a world in which the assumption that Europeans are somehow better by innate virtue of culture or such, and not by geography or circumstances, is rejected and where Asian cultures reign supreme. It's not an Asian supremacist setting at all. We don't mount ourselves on a pedestal. Not at all.

Furthermore, we are not weeaboos. I think I might be the only member in Tiandi who watches anime, and even then sparingly with my girlfriend, who forces me to watch it. We are interested in Asian culture, yes, but that doesn't make us obsessed and super into kawaii or anime or whatever. If you don't like the fact that your respective European nationality is being colonized, ask yourself why we would be okay when you joke about the same in your own regions for our own cultures.

This.

by **Toishima** » Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:31 pm

I would like to point out that while reverse colonisation may be 'fun' from an OOC standpoint, I hope we look at it practically ICly. For example, it would make no sense for Nam Long to specifically colonise the French if they would realistically colonise a closer or more resource-rich part of Gungju, or even go to Gungju at all when they could have colonised other closer areas like Miju. Colonisation should always be justified instead of just carrying out reverse colonisation for a brief joke, though of course said justification can come before or after the fact - though the justification must not be due to OOC reasons or real-life history.

I hope we all take this into consideration before doing more reverse colonisation.

by **Yugoslav Memes** » Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:47 pm

yugoland is yugoland either way

so yeah

by **Daeseong** » Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:48 pm

Girejiazadiya wrote:As a guy who left a pretty well developed and powerful Nordic country to come here as a mid-level Kurdish state I can understand the frustration of not being able to place yourself into situations with the bigger guys. Although simply complaining and trying to bend the already established laws of the region isn't how you do it. If you want to play a European nation here is possibly the most entertaining yet difficult things to do here in Tiandi. Taking on Gungju is probably only for the players best able to manipulate situations and the flow of the region as well as those who can create good enough geopolitical situations to attract the community into your situation and be a part of the region.

I'm Arjun, and I endorse this post.

by **Girejiazadiya** » Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:02 am

So me a luey were talking in a Skype chat and the issue of Christianity in Gungju came up. We agreed that it seems a bit unreal that given the geographic and other factors of Tiandi would allow Christianity to spread outside of Tiandi Near East and possibly Tiandi Africa (to lazy to look up the names right now

)

So as I thought about I remembered I made up a religion back in an old RP as Insaeldor. I feel it make a great religion for Gungju to adopt besides Christianity and would make more sense than Christianity some how spreading to gungju.

basic theology of the religion
Creation Story, Ten Commandments, and importent verses

Obviously I'd change some of the theology to fit Tiandi and not this RP I constructed it for. Also how does Constructionalism sound as a name for the religion?

by **Greater Deshret** » Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:07 am

My main issue with the above is that I don't think Gungju players are very likely to want to adopt your constructed religion in place of Christianity. I suspect most people who come here to play European nations will want to play Christian nations, or else practice some form of paganism. If the were to give their nation a constructed religion to serve as an analogue to Christianity it seems likely that players would rather create their own than accept somebody else's.

Now, playing a nation on Gungju is already a fairly unattractive prospect as it means being poverty-ridden and largely irrelevant on the international stage. We don't want to make it more unattractive by requiring people to adopt some made-up religion when they'd rather just play a Christian nation or use one of Europe's many pre-Christian pagan traditions, which on my experience is what many people prefer doing.

by **Girejiazadiya** » Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:17 am

Greater Deshret wrote:My main issue with the above is that I don't think Gungju players are very likely to want to adopt your constructed religion in place of Christianity. I suspect most people who come here to play European nations will want to play Christian nations, or else practice some form of paganism. If the were to give their nation a constructed religion to serve as an analogue to Christianity it seems likely that players would rather create their own than accept somebody else's.

Now, playing a nation on Gungju is already a fairly in attract prospect as it means being poverty-ridden and largely irrelevant on the international stage. We don't want to make it more unattractive by requiring people to adopt some made-up religion when they'd rather just play a Christian nation or use one of Europe's many pre-Christian pagan traditions, which on my experience is what many people prefer doing.

Understandable, if at the very least I'd keep this the main monotheistic religion for Insaeldor (my potential gungju nation).

EDIT: Although I still think this is a viable alternative to Christianity in Gungju

1: Abrahamic religions are noticeably unimpactful in Tiandi even in its home continent were noticeably many other religions are present like the old Egyptian religion, Zoroastrianism. Possibly Hittite mythology, Manichaeism among others if we include NPC. This thus limits the range of christianities influence. With the lack of any sort of nationstates actively linking Gungju and Yoju/Miju this also helps limit the ability of Christianity to spread to Gungju.

2: as Arum has stated we still want a religion in the area to be analogous to Christianity. We've got Christian terrorist groups and the like as well as the need for some sort of unifying religion. This helps in shaping a common gungju identity (or at least a non-sinju identity) which helps in the process of conflict and the anti-colonial politics that would be present in the area. Obviously Pagan Faith's can do this but they lack the ability to unify large sections of very different people and thus wouldn't be as able to help in forming a gungju identity in much the same way Christianity is key in the European identity or has been in decades past. Christianity helped unify people's against "others" like the Mongols, Moors, and Ottomans. I believe Constructionalism could serve a very similar role in the politics of Gungju. Again though paganism and large converted communities of Buhhdist and Confusions would also be present in gungju as well.

by **Toishima** » Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:58 am

I do believe Muslims exist in vast numbers, especially in Dayganistan and Barujaya.

by **Toishima** » Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:17 am

My latest video game/movie RP is here, yet another non-canon production courtesy of Aki-sama. Please join if you are truly interested, as I do have a plot in mind and wish the thing could be pulled through to its conclusion, many, many chapters away.

Special Agency Geobukseon

OOC Thread

Tiandi Big Discussion Thread

Who is online