Air Force vet arrested for trying to stop flag desecration

[Jamzmania]

Don’t tread on this flag.

That’s the message Air Force veteran and former Playboy model Michelle Manhart says she was trying to convey by picking up a damaged flag that protesters had been stomping on in a demonstration at Valdosta State University in southern Georgia on Friday.

But before she could spirit the flag away, police officers intervened to return the Old Glory to the protesters who were trampling it and escort Manhart off the premises, according to a video of the incident Manhart has posted to Facebook.

The video shows her walking away with the flag briefly as police converge. Manhart, who is white, and the protestors, all of whom are African-American, jaw at one another in the taped incident.

“You enslaved our people,” one of the demonstrators says. “You put us in this white supremacist place. And you’re stealing our flag now.”

A protester also grabs on to the flag’s pole in an attempt to claim it back, but the demonstrators eventually give way as three cops wrestle Manhart to the ground in the footage.

“We gave you a lawful command to let go of this flag, m’am,” one police officer tells Manhart. “This flag does not belong to you.”

The officers handcuffed her and gave the flag back to the applauding demonstrators. But Manhart calls one of the cops a “spiny piece of s---” before being led away to a police cruiser in the video.

Neither the demonstrators nor the police decided to press charges against Manhart, but she did receive a campus trespass warning that bars her from campus activities, university spokesman Andy Clark told The Valdosta Daily Times.

A defiant Manhart told the local newspaper that she’s planning her own event to show support for the military and the Stars and Stripes on Wednesday. She said she doesn’t approve of Supreme Court rulings that protect flag trampling and flag burning as free speech under the First Amendment, according to the Daily Times.

“The bald eagle is a symbol of our country, and back in the 80s it was put on the endangered species list,” Manhart said. “You can’t touch that bird. It’s illegal. If we can do that with a bird, why can’t we place that same value on the flag?”

University officials, on the other hand, affirmed the protesters’ right to stomp on the flag but made it clear that they too disapproved of desecrating it.

“The American flag represents everything that is best about our country,” Dr. William J. McKinney, president of Valdosta State, said in a statement posted on the university's Facebook page. “As the Supreme Court has held, one of those things is the right to free speech, which includes the right to disrespect even the symbol of our country. While I firmly disagree with the actions of the protesters, I understand their right to protest.”

Manhart, a one-time military instructor in the Air Force, resigned from the service in 2008 after receiving a reprimand and a demotion for her naked pictures in Playboy magazine the year before, the Daily Times reported.

So, an Air Force veteran was hauled away in handcuffs for refusing to allow protesters to desecrate an American flag. No charges were filed against her, but the university banned her from ever returning to campus grounds.

Here's the topics for discussion: Should the protesters have been trampling over the flag? Should she have tried to take the flag? Should the police have arrested her for taking the flag? Should the university have banned her from ever returning?

My opinion: I think this woman only did was any righteous and patriotic person would do, and I applaud her for standing up to these lowlifes. I am disgusted at these protesters for showing such disrespect and contempt for the symbol of the very nation that gives them the right to show that disrespect and contempt. The campus policemen were doing their jobs, however the university seems to be siding with the protesters by banning the woman from the campus.

Your thoughts?

[Neutraligon]

Desecration of the flag is seen as one version of freedom of speech, thus I support the protesters being allowed to do it. Her attempting to stop then could be seen in two lights, one as in essence theft since she does not own that flag, and two as expressing her own freedom of speech in attempting to protect the flag. I see no problem with the actions of the protesters, the police, or the university.

As a side note, I see vets who protect a person's right to desecrate the flag as patriotic, since they are protecting the person's right to free speech, one of the foundations of this nation. I find it ironic that the group is using the laws of this nation to try and desecrate the symbol of the nation.

As per later posts desecration of the flag is constitutional, as such any laws making it illegal are unconstitutional.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._Johnson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Eichman

[Chestaan]

Freedom of Expression. Nobody has the right to prevent others from burning a flag if they desire to do so.

[Ifreann]

“The bald eagle is a symbol of our country, and back in the 80s it was put on the endangered species list,” Manhart said. “You can’t touch that bird. It’s illegal. If we can do that with a bird, why can’t we place that same value on the flag?”

[Neutraligon]

“The bald eagle is a symbol of our country, and back in the 80s it was put on the endangered species list,” Manhart said. “You can’t touch that bird. It’s illegal. If we can do that with a bird, why can’t we place that same value on the flag?”

Note to self, make sure to read the whole article...wow.

[Dyakovo]

The Chairforce vet was in the wrong.

[Ifreann]

Note to self, make sure to read the whole article...wow.

I hope flying planes isn't what she does for the Air Force.

[Kelinfort]

She should be protesting the NSA or the Patriot Act. Both of which are much more affronts to our country than burning a flag.

[The 501st SR]

Well the dumbass punks were breaking the law
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-201 ... sec700.htm

[Yumyumsuppertime]

I get the reaction, but legally, it was indefensible, and it shows that while she's willing to defend the flag, she's not willing to acknowledge the freedoms that it represents.

[Kelinfort]

Well the dumbass punks were breaking the law
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-201 ... sec700.htm

http://www.uscourts.gov/educational-res ... mmary.aspx

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Well the dumbass punks were breaking the law
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-201 ... sec700.htm

Not a law that can be Constitutionally enforced.

EDIT: Ninja'ed!

[Ifreann]

Well the dumbass punks were breaking the law
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-201 ... sec700.htm

No they weren't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Eichman

Sweet, a threefer.

[Neutraligon]

Well the dumbass punks were breaking the law
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-201 ... sec700.htm

No they weren't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Eichman

Sweet, a threefer.

I deleted mine so at one point it was 4

[Lleu llaw Gyffes]

Don’t tread on this flag.

That’s the message Air Force veteran and former Playboy model Michelle Manhart says she was trying to convey by picking up a damaged flag that protesters had been stomping on in a demonstration at Valdosta State University in southern Georgia on Friday.

But before she could spirit the flag away, police officers intervened to return the Old Glory to the protesters who were trampling it and escort Manhart off the premises, according to a video of the incident Manhart has posted to Facebook.

The video shows her walking away with the flag briefly as police converge. Manhart, who is white, and the protestors, all of whom are African-American, jaw at one another in the taped incident.

“You enslaved our people,” one of the demonstrators says. “You put us in this white supremacist place. And you’re stealing our flag now.”

A protester also grabs on to the flag’s pole in an attempt to claim it back, but the demonstrators eventually give way as three cops wrestle Manhart to the ground in the footage.

“We gave you a lawful command to let go of this flag, m’am,” one police officer tells Manhart. “This flag does not belong to you.”

The officers handcuffed her and gave the flag back to the applauding demonstrators. But Manhart calls one of the cops a “spiny piece of s---” before being led away to a police cruiser in the video.

Neither the demonstrators nor the police decided to press charges against Manhart, but she did receive a campus trespass warning that bars her from campus activities, university spokesman Andy Clark told The Valdosta Daily Times.

A defiant Manhart told the local newspaper that she’s planning her own event to show support for the military and the Stars and Stripes on Wednesday. She said she doesn’t approve of Supreme Court rulings that protect flag trampling and flag burning as free speech under the First Amendment, according to the Daily Times.

“The bald eagle is a symbol of our country, and back in the 80s it was put on the endangered species list,” Manhart said. “You can’t touch that bird. It’s illegal. If we can do that with a bird, why can’t we place that same value on the flag?”

University officials, on the other hand, affirmed the protesters’ right to stomp on the flag but made it clear that they too disapproved of desecrating it.

“The American flag represents everything that is best about our country,” Dr. William J. McKinney, president of Valdosta State, said in a statement posted on the university's Facebook page. “As the Supreme Court has held, one of those things is the right to free speech, which includes the right to disrespect even the symbol of our country. While I firmly disagree with the actions of the protesters, I understand their right to protest.”

Manhart, a one-time military instructor in the Air Force, resigned from the service in 2008 after receiving a reprimand and a demotion for her naked pictures in Playboy magazine the year before, the Daily Times reported.

So, an Air Force veteran was hauled away in handcuffs for refusing to allow protesters to desecrate an American flag. No charges were filed against her, but the university banned her from ever returning to campus grounds.

Here's the topics for discussion:

1 Should the protesters have been trampling over the flag?
2 Should she have tried to take the flag?
3 Should the police have arrested her for taking the flag?
4 Should the university have banned her from ever returning?

My opinion: I think this woman only did was any righteous and patriotic person would do, and I applaud her for standing up to these lowlifes. I am disgusted at these protesters for showing such disrespect and contempt for the symbol of the very nation that gives them the right to show that disrespect and contempt. The campus policemen were doing their jobs, however the university seems to be siding with the protesters by banning the woman from the campus.

Your thoughts?

1 Yes. Free speech

2 She had no right to TAKE the flag. Students went to a shop and bought the Flag. Taking it is the crime of Theft, taking it with violence (and or threats of violence) is the felony of Robbery (different jurisdictions have different fancy words, but in most jurisdictions, stealing stuff with threats of violence is a bigger crime than simple stealing.)

3 Police should have STOPPED her stealing the flag. Whether she needed to be arrested AFTERWARDS is a judgement call.

4 No. Show some compassion. She risked her life defending that flag and now she has difficulty coping with Civilian Life. Show some compassion and give a smaller punishment.

[Sanctissima]

Well, the students were being stupid.

Like, really stupid. What the hell did they expect? They were basically saying "fuck this country, I hate it".

So I understand why a passerby would get pissed off and take the flag from them.

I don't understand why three security guards had to tackle her and return a flag to people who were just going to burn it anyway.

[Jamzmania]

So, an Air Force veteran was hauled away in handcuffs for refusing to allow protesters to desecrate an American flag. No charges were filed against her, but the university banned her from ever returning to campus grounds.

Here's the topics for discussion:

1 Should the protesters have been trampling over the flag?
2 Should she have tried to take the flag?
3 Should the police have arrested her for taking the flag?
4 Should the university have banned her from ever returning?

My opinion: I think this woman only did was any righteous and patriotic person would do, and I applaud her for standing up to these lowlifes. I am disgusted at these protesters for showing such disrespect and contempt for the symbol of the very nation that gives them the right to show that disrespect and contempt. The campus policemen were doing their jobs, however the university seems to be siding with the protesters by banning the woman from the campus.

Your thoughts?

1 Yes. Free speech

2 She had no right to TAKE the flag. Students went to a shop and bought the Flag. Taking it is the crime of Theft, taking it with violence (and or threats of violence) is the felony of Robbery (different jurisdictions have different fancy words, but in most jurisdictions, stealing stuff with threats of violence is a bigger crime than simple stealing.)

3 Police should have STOPPED her stealing the flag. Whether she needed to be arrested AFTERWARDS is a judgement call.

4 No. Show some compassion. She risked her life defending that flag and now she has difficulty coping with Civilian Life. Show some compassion and give a smaller punishment.

I didn't ask could they trample on the flag. I'm asking if they should have.

[Dyakovo]

Well, the students were being stupid.

Like, really stupid. What the hell did they expect? They were basically saying "fuck this country, I hate it".

So I understand why a passerby would get pissed off and take the flag from them.

I don't understand why three security guards had to tackle her and return a flag to people who were just going to burn it anyway.

It was their flag, thus they're free to do with it what they wish. She stole it from the rightful owners, she's lucky they decided to not press charges.

[Dazchan]

I don't understand why three security guards had to tackle her and return a flag to people who were just going to burn it anyway.

Because flag desecration is legal and theft is illegal.

[Wallenburg]

Do I find this "desecration" disgusting? Yes.

Do I find it morally reprehensible? Kind of.

Do I find it beyond the rights of the protestors? Definitely not.


This veteran should know better than to deprive someone of their first amendment rights.

[Dyakovo]

1 Yes. Free speech

2 She had no right to TAKE the flag. Students went to a shop and bought the Flag. Taking it is the crime of Theft, taking it with violence (and or threats of violence) is the felony of Robbery (different jurisdictions have different fancy words, but in most jurisdictions, stealing stuff with threats of violence is a bigger crime than simple stealing.)

3 Police should have STOPPED her stealing the flag. Whether she needed to be arrested AFTERWARDS is a judgement call.

4 No. Show some compassion. She risked her life defending that flag and now she has difficulty coping with Civilian Life. Show some compassion and give a smaller punishment.

I didn't ask could they trample on the flag. I'm asking if they should have.

They certainly felt they should, so yes, they should have. Their protest wasn't harming anyone, so there's no reason to stop it.

[Sanctissima]

Well, the students were being stupid.

Like, really stupid. What the hell did they expect? They were basically saying "fuck this country, I hate it".

So I understand why a passerby would get pissed off and take the flag from them.

I don't understand why three security guards had to tackle her and return a flag to people who were just going to burn it anyway.

It was their flag, thus they're free to do with it what they wish. She stole it from the rightful owners, she's lucky they decided to not press charges.

The students were lucky they didn't get targeted by extremists. Plenty of people who would get considerably upset over a flag-burning.

Just because it's your right to do something, doesn't mean you should do it. People need to think things through.

[Geilinor]

Flag desecration is legal and according to the Supreme Court, it cannot be banned.

[MERIZoC]

“The bald eagle is a symbol of our country, and back in the 80s it was put on the endangered species list,” Manhart said. “You can’t touch that bird. It’s illegal. If we can do that with a bird, why can’t we place that same value on the flag?”

"Breaking news! Local Air Force vet mistakes bird for piece of cloth, attempts to use it to wipe mouth!"

[Wallenburg]

It was their flag, thus they're free to do with it what they wish. She stole it from the rightful owners, she's lucky they decided to not press charges.

The students were lucky they didn't get targeted by extremists. Plenty of people who would get considerably upset over a flag-burning.

Just because it's your right to do something, doesn't mean you should do it. People need to think things through.

So anything that upsets WASPs and Co. is off the table, even if you have the right to do it. I don't remember that in the Constitution!