Paripana–Septentrionia World Cup 51 bid

[Commerce Heights]

Paripana–Septentrionia World Cup 51 bid
Paripana–Septentrionie candidature pour la Coupe du monde 51

One hundred years after (what they consider to be) the centennial World Cup held in Paripana, the Paripana Sporting Council presents its plans to wreak more havoc bring this great sporting event back to the archipelago. With Oliverry being unfortunately unavailable for hosting due to its present non-existence, the resident Frenchies in the PSC have sought out the next-best white-flag-bearing partners for this reunion, l’Association Septentrionienne de Soccer.

Scorinator
The NSFS scorination formula will be used, with the exception of style modifiers, which will be implemented according to the xkoranate formula, such that the style modifiers have no impact on the outcome (win/draw/loss) of matches (and will fall within the range of −5 to +5). Post-BoF KPB ranks will be used during the qualifying stage and (if necessary) playoffs, while post-qualifying KPB ranks will be used during the final tournament.

Qualifying structure
The preferred format for qualifying will be fifteen groups of eight, nine, or ten, with the top two teams in each group advancing. Alternatively, twenty groups of eight, nine, or ten may be used, depending on the number of signups, with the top team in each group advancing directly and the second-placed teams being paired in playoffs. These formats will result in qualifying either being fourteen or eighteen matchdays long (excluding playoffs). In the event that there are more than 162 signups, other qualifying formats may be considered.

If the number of signups is unsuitable for these formats, the first step taken will be to request that puppets be voluntarily withdrawn. If an acceptable number is still not reached, puppets will be removed in inverse order of entry.

The first tiebreaker, if teams in a qualifying or finals group have the same number of points, will be wins, followed by results between the tied teams (points, wins, goal difference, and goals scored), goal difference, and goals scored. These tiebreakers will be applied recursively. If a relevant tie between two teams cannot be resolved, then a single playoff match at a neutral site will be used to determine who advances. If a tie between three or more teams cannot be resolved, or if a two-way tie is irrelevant to determining which teams advance, then it will be resolved by drawing of lots.

If twenty groups are used in qualifying, playoff ties will be played over two legs. If the aggregate score of a tie is level at the end of the second match, the away goals rule, extra time, and kicks from the penalty mark will be used, as appropriate. The away goals rule will not apply after extra time.

The draw for the qualifying stage will be seeded based on post-BoF KPB ranks, while the draw for the group stage of the final tournament will be seeded based on post-qualifying KPB ranks, with the host teams—Capitalizt SLANI and Septentrionia—automatically placed in the highest-seeded pot. If twenty groups are used in qualifying, the draw for the playoffs will be fully random, and conducted during the mid-qualifying break.

RP bonus
As in World Cups 36, 39, 42, and 45, a bonus for the overall quality of each player’s RP so far will be multiplied by a modifier for RPing “frequently,” “occasionally,” or “never.” Under this system, someone that posts one great RP will get a larger bonus than someone who posts poor RPs every day, but someone who posts great RPs frequently will not have an overwhelming advantage. RPs posted during qualifying will not be included in determining the bonus for the final tournament, as updated ranks will be used.

Friendlies
As usual, three days (pre-qualifying, mid-qualifying, and post-qualifying) will be made available for friendly matches. Each nation will be entitled to request, in a separate thread similar to that used during World Cup 50, that the hosts scorinate up to three friendlies on each of these days. No restriction is made on additional friendlies or friendly tournaments scorinated in that thread by third parties.

Experience
Commerce Heights has hosted four World Cups (26, 36, 39, and 45), five Olympic Games, twenty-one TakilQuip Champions’ Cups, a Cup of Harmony (25), and a Baptism of Fire tournament (2). Septentrionia has hosted two World Cups (26 as Oliverry, and 42), three World Cups of Hockey, two Cherry Cups (a grand total of five ice hockey tournaments), and five Champions Hockey Leagues.

[Newmanistan]

Paripana is more then capable of operating the scorinators and doing the hosting chores.

But with all due respect, and not with wanting to get into argument as has been seen on the discussion thread; why should I vote for one person who has essentially been absent from the entire NS community? World Cup of Hockey 9, hosted by Septentrionia, had a 7-day delay between the posting of the quarterfinal results and the posting of the semifinal results, with no explanation ever provided as to why this was the case, or that we would have such a delay.

Date of Quarterfinals
Date of Semifinals

If you read the posts around the above, you will see that we were never given a reason why this happened, and we were left on hanging on ice. The discussion thread does not say anything either.

With this being a joint bid, then I am sure that Paripana would step in if an unexplained absence happened again, but I was greatly underwhelmed with the performance of Septentrionia in WCoH9, and the general lack of an apology or explanation for that delay. People should also remember that Champions Leagues, while requiring alot of scorinator input, are done differently then "World Cups", in that there is no RP awards ever given in them on a day to day basis.


I greatly await other World Cup bids.

[Sarzonia]

And let's not forget the World Cup 26 debacle. If you thought World Cup 50 had issues, you should have been around for that one.

I know Commerce Heights can run a scorinator, but I have been reluctant to vote for anything he's bid to host since then. As for Oli/Septentrionia, I found myself wondering when he'd flake out when the ninth WCoH began with that World Cup still in mind.

The information about this bid looks solid. However, the histories of the hosts leaves me with great reason for concern.

[Yafor 2]

And let's not forget the World Cup 26 debacle. If you thought World Cup 50 had issues, you should have been around for that one.

Okay, so I *was* around. I don't remember it being that bad. Thus...

I just went through the entire World Cup 26 thread and talked to the collective conscious of #nssport (the people who remember WC26: Bedi, LE, Oli, and myself. CH and Rejis were in the channel, but probably not at their computers) and I can comfortably say to everybody else that Sarzo is the only person who believes this. I remember that WC26 was especially fun for me to RP in (much like WC50, there was some strange amount of randomness, so in our group, five teams had a shot at advancing on the last matchday. Kazoo has never let me hear the end of it) and wondered why it wasn't the case for you.

There was the case that Oli was forced to rescorinate a certain result, but apart from that (and from the increased randomness), I couldn't find any reason as for WC26 to be a "debacle". Scores were on time and it was actually one of the most heavily-RPed World Cups. In all honesty, part of it might be that Sarzonia was the #1 team in the world at the time and it failed to advance out of the group stage, so it might have stuck in your head for that reason. Nonetheless, rescorination was both the logical thing to do in the situation (something with an RP bonus, iirc) and a common thing in World Cups anyway (Bedi/Veph just regaled us with a story of World Cup 8 and an almost-rescorination where Audio got upset; <Oli> old.), so I'm not sure what the problem with that is.

If the "history of the hosts" is such a huge concern, instead of assuming that WC26 was somehow terrible, why not tell the world *why* it was terrible? Is it because of host delay? Mishandling a scorinator? Hosts cheating to make themselves win? No scorination; actually, just hosts inventing results? What was it?

My memory is totally different and, as Oli is a friend, I'm pretty sure that it just shouldn't be assumed that he doesn't know how to host. This isn't for you, Sarzo (since I'm guessing you've already made up your mind), but for everybody else; I (and everybody else in #nssport right now) remember(s) WC26 very differently. Very differently indeed.

[Septentrionia]

Newmanistan:
The evidence is there about that, I'll agree. Now, as to why it took a week between scorinations, I don't remember, really. I must either have had a very busy week or was just so exhausted from work that I just didn't have the mind to scorination.
And besides, that hasn't stopped me from hosting five Champions Hockey Leagues to their completion. Yes, they are not scorinated quite the same way, but they need to be planned out accordingly. As for me not being very present in the community, in fact, I was simply not present much on the forums, but still very active on the IRC channel, as the regulars there could tell you. Of course, I sometimes post my two cents on the WCDT, even if I usually don't post much there due to the topic of discussion usually not being of interest to me.

Sarzonia:
As for World Cup 26, we would please like you to tell us what happened that caused it to be such an outrage? I guess I have my idea as to why you hated that World Cup with a passion, but only yelling "THAT WORLD CUP SUCKED!!!" without bringing any point to back it up isn't going to help your case. A quick poll on IRC from the members who remember that World Cup didn't get any very negative responses about it, so I guess it must not have been that bad, right?
Also, if you're going to speak about that World Cup, I'd like to hear about complaints about World Cup 42, that I also hosted with Cafundeu. Has there been any major issue with it? If not, well... I honestly don't see why you're still complaining about something that happened what? THREE years ago?

Anyway, if you have any other question that needs be answered, don't hesitate. CH and I will try to answer them as best as we can


EDIT: LE tells me World Cup 26 happened in January 06, therefore four years and four months ago.
EDIT2: Edit so that it sounds less rude; clearly sounded too rude to me tbh

[Commerce Heights]

And let's not forget the World Cup 26 debacle. If you thought World Cup 50 had issues, you should have been around for that one.

I know Commerce Heights can run a scorinator, but I have been reluctant to vote for anything he's bid to host since then.

Even if we assume for a moment that World Cup 26 was the worst cup ever, that it was biased against Turori, was scorinated with voodoo dice, or whatever other NS Sport clichés you want to throw at it, does the fact that it was over four years ago, and that I’ve since hosted several World Cups, several Olympic Games, and created a complex system of club football competitions, all apparently without incident (as if there were more recent incidents, I presume you would have mentioned those instead), count for nothing? If these events are insufficient to overcome your “reluctan[ce],” then what would be? What message does this send to the current generation of newbies about our tolerance of their inevitable hosting mistakes?

[Starblaydia]

why should I vote for one person who has essentially been absent from the entire NS community?

In the NS Sports IRC channel, which I would certainly call part of the community - albeit one you don't visit - Oli is very active indeed, reading and reacting to what goes on across the forum.

And let's not forget the World Cup 26 debacle. If you thought World Cup 50 had issues, you should have been around for that one.

Okay, so I *was* around. I don't remember it being that bad. Thus...

I just went through the entire World Cup 26 thread and talked to the collective conscious of #nssport (the people who remember WC26: Bedi, LE, Oli, and myself. CH and Rejis were in the channel, but probably not at their computers) and I can comfortably say to everybody else that Sarzo is the only person who believes this. I remember that WC26 was especially fun for me to RP in (much like WC50, there was some strange amount of randomness, so in our group, five teams had a shot at advancing on the last matchday. Kazoo has never let me hear the end of it) and wondered why it wasn't the case for you.

I fondly look back on WC26 as the Worst. Cup. Ever! Being defending, RPing champions and losing to Crystilakere in the Second Round didn't exactly endear me to this Cup. Personally, other than vague gripes, I have no real justification for why WC26 was allegedly so appalling. I wouldn't mind being enlightened on what was specifically wrong with it.

In all honesty, part of it might be that Sarzonia was the #1 team in the world at the time and it failed to advance out of the group stage, so it might have stuck in your head for that reason. Nonetheless, rescorination was both the logical thing to do in the situation (something with an RP bonus, iirc) and a common thing in World Cups anyway

The cries of "Re-sim!" have died down to almost nothing in the last twenty Cups or so, most probably because we've just become more professional like that.

[The Babbage Islands]

The cries of "Re-sim!" have died down to almost nothing in the last twenty Cups or so, most probably because we've just become more professional like that.

We have. A re-sim, even a critical re-sim, that is over four years old is scarcely a big black mark. People and circumstances change a lot here in one year, not to say four.

World Cup of Hockey 9, hosted by Septentrionia, had a 7-day delay between the posting of the quarterfinal results and the posting of the semifinal results, with no explanation ever provided as to why this was the case, or that we would have such a delay.

Date of Quarterfinals
Date of Semifinals

This is of more immediate concern. On the other hand, having full confidence in CH/Paripana for big event hosting I see this as somewhat parallel to my own recent (albeit unsuccessful) BoF bid with Burchadinger. I don't believe in holding mistakes over people's heads forever.

We'll see what other bids arise.

[Liventia]

I find it hard to believe that you're comparing a multiple-time World Cup host to a hosting newbie.

[Delaclava]

why should I vote for one person who has essentially been absent from the entire NS community?

In the NS Sports IRC channel, which I would certainly call part of the community - albeit one you don't visit - Oli is very active indeed, reading and reacting to what goes on across the forum.

As someone who does frequent #nssport - albeit not as much as some others - I would have to agree on this statement. It's all about how different people have contributed, and on #nssport Oli's done his part.

I find it hard to believe that you're comparing a multiple-time World Cup host to a hosting newbie.

I don't think TBI was trying to use parts as the whole in that comparison, just that they've both made mistakes that can be forgiven.

On the bid: not bad. There's obviously nothing wrong with that experience. I must say that I kind of like the RP idea, although from the sound of it someone who does great RP every single day doesn't get much of an advantage over someone who does one or two great RPs, which I disagree with. Although the five friendlies gives more matches, the three-friendly system's definitely going to be simpler.

Couldn't you just do the two-game aggregate playoff in the two-per-group qualify format? That just seems like kind of a thing that happens in football/soccer. Also, I was wondering if you could explain the "drawing of lots" in the event of a three+-way tie?

Overall: as a WCC member, is my vote guaranteed? No. Could I possibly vote for you? Of course. One the questions I've asked are cleared up, I'd say the bid's pretty solid.

[Newmanistan]

Newmanistan:
The evidence is there about that, I'll agree. Now, as to why it took a week between scorinations, I don't remember, really. I must either have had a very busy week or was just so exhausted from work that I just didn't have the mind to scorination.
And besides, that hasn't stopped me from hosting five Champions Hockey Leagues to their completion. Yes, they are not scorinated quite the same way, but they need to be planned out accordingly. As for me not being very present in the community, in fact, I was simply not present much on the forums, but still very active on the IRC channel, as the regulars there could tell you. Of course, I sometimes post my two cents on the WCDT, even if I usually don't post much there due to the topic of discussion usually not being of interest to me.

I'm glad you are active in the chat room. That question was presented to you partially to give you a chance to let that be known to people to those who might not have been as aware of it, as well as hoping to see responses from others concerning that activity which has indeed happened to make myself feel a little better. WCoH9 is what it is, and will be a consideration in my decision if there is indeed a rival bid. I'm not saying I won't vote for your bid; just that I'm still interested in seeing others. World Cup 26 is not going to factor into my decision, it was four years ago, and I am willing to forgive, though it helps that I was not part of NS Sports then to not have a direct memory of it.

Now, with this all out of the way; do you two have any plans of working in the 200th Anniversary of the First World Cup, which World Cup 51 (and not World Cup 50), actually is? In the long run, it's just fluff, but it'd be nice to see from anyone hosting World Cup 51. You two hosting WC51 has interesting significance since you hosted the 100th Anniversary (WC26) as well.

[Commerce Heights]

On the bid: not bad. There's obviously nothing wrong with that experience. I must say that I kind of like the RP idea, although from the sound of it someone who does great RP every single day doesn't get much of an advantage over someone who does one or two great RPs, which I disagree with.

“Many great RPs” falls between “one or more exceptional RPs” and “one or more great RPs.” There’s only so much room available in the RP bonus scale without allowing C&M to wipe the floor with just about anyone

Couldn't you just do the two-game aggregate playoff in the two-per-group qualify format? That just seems like kind of a thing that happens in football/soccer.

Assuming you are referring to the twenty-group format (in the fifteen-group format, two teams qualify from each group without need of playoffs), what we’ve described is a “two-game aggregate playoff.” Were you confused by the terminology used, or am I misunderstanding your question?

Also, I was wondering if you could explain the "drawing of lots" in the event of a three+-way tie?

“Drawing of lots” means that the relative standings of the tied teams will be determined at random, as if by drawing their names out of a hat. This has been required only once in the history of the World Cup, in World Cup 39’s Group G, in which all four teams finished with equal records (see the group table and the subsequent drawing).

Now, with this all out of the way; do you two have any plans of working in the 200th Anniversary of the First World Cup, which World Cup 51 (and not World Cup 50), actually is? In the long run, it's just fluff, but it'd be nice to see from anyone hosting World Cup 51. You two hosting WC51 has interesting significance since you hosted the 100th Anniversary (WC26) as well.

As I alluded to in the opening statement, the relevant anniversaries would naturally be a significant factor in my roleplaying (I cannot, of course, speak for Oli). The final would be hosted at a renovated Sokojito Überdome, which was built for World Cup 26 and hosted its final. If I’m lucky, I’ll also be able to draw parallels to Bedistan’s successful performance in World Cup 26…

[Delaclava]

Couldn't you just do the two-game aggregate playoff in the two-per-group qualify format? That just seems like kind of a thing that happens in football/soccer.

Assuming you are referring to the twenty-group format (in the fifteen-group format, two teams qualify from each group without need of playoffs), what we’ve described is a “two-game aggregate playoff.” Were you confused by the terminology used, or am I misunderstanding your question?

I'm afraid you misunderstood the question. I was referring to the fifteen-group format, where, if I'm reading correctly, if there are unresolved ties, then they're broken by single-game playoffs.

Also, I was wondering if you could explain the "drawing of lots" in the event of a three+-way tie?

“Drawing of lots” means that the relative standings of the tied teams will be determined at random, as if by drawing their names out of a hat. This has been required only once in the history of the World Cup, in World Cup 39’s Group G, in which all four teams finished with equal records (see the group table and the subsequent drawing).

I guess I don't exactly approve of doing this, since it's based entirely on luck (especially from an RP angle, where it's tough to explain that a team didn't advance because their name didn't come out of a hat), but I guess there's not a more fair way that is actually practical. I would also ask; is this the same procedure that would be used if there were a three-way tie in qualifying? (I ask this while realizing that there is a 99.(insert ridiculous amount of 9's here) percent chance my question is irrelevant.

[Commerce Heights]

Couldn't you just do the two-game aggregate playoff in the two-per-group qualify format? That just seems like kind of a thing that happens in football/soccer.

Assuming you are referring to the twenty-group format (in the fifteen-group format, two teams qualify from each group without need of playoffs), what we’ve described is a “two-game aggregate playoff.” Were you confused by the terminology used, or am I misunderstanding your question?

I'm afraid you misunderstood the question. I was referring to the fifteen-group format, where, if I'm reading correctly, if there are unresolved ties, then they're broken by single-game playoffs.

Oh, I see. That is not, in fact, the “thing that happens in football/soccer”: a tie-breaking playoff of this type was required between Algeria and Egypt in Group C of the CAF’s 2010 World Cup qualification, and was contested as a single match at a neutral site. I see no inconsistency between having scheduled playoffs played over two legs and unscheduled playoffs played as a single match for expediency.

I guess I don't exactly approve of doing this, since it's based entirely on luck (especially from an RP angle, where it's tough to explain that a team didn't advance because their name didn't come out of a hat), but I guess there's not a more fair way that is actually practical. I would also ask; is this the same procedure that would be used if there were a three-way tie in qualifying? (I ask this while realizing that there is a 99.(insert ridiculous amount of 9's here) percent chance my question is irrelevant.

Yes, the same tie-breaking procedures apply to the qualifying groups as to the first round groups.

[Delaclava]

Oh, I see. That is not, in fact, the “thing that happens in football/soccer”: a tie-breaking playoff of this type was required between Algeria and Egypt in Group C of the CAF’s 2010 World Cup qualification, and was contested as a single match at a neutral site. I see no inconsistency between having scheduled playoffs played over two legs and unscheduled playoffs played as a single match for expediency.

I stand corrected, then...

[The Kazoo Peoples]

...
I remember that WC26 was especially fun for me to RP in (much like WC50, there was some strange amount of randomness, so in our group, five teams had a shot at advancing on the last matchday. Kazoo has never let me hear the end of it) and wondered why it wasn't the case for you....

And I never will!

If the "history of the hosts" is such a huge concern, instead of assuming that WC26 was somehow terrible, why not tell the world *why* it was terrible? Is it because of host delay? Mishandling a scorinator? Hosts cheating to make themselves win? No scorination; actually, just hosts inventing results? What was it?

My memory is totally different and, as Oli is a friend, I'm pretty sure that it just shouldn't be assumed that he doesn't know how to host. This isn't for you, Sarzo (since I'm guessing you've already made up your mind), but for everybody else; I (and everybody else in #nssport right now) remember(s) WC26 very differently. Very differently indeed.

WC26 was my first World Cup, and I remember having a lot of fun with it. Bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, fresh from my Baptism of Fire-runner-up-ship(??), I was anxious to start the cup. Perhaps it was ridiculous and crazy that I made it to the Finals on my first attempt, but given that I had no barometer on what was expected, I took and enjoyed it nonetheless, so add my name to the list of people who support the opinion that Yafor 2 outlined. Plus, even if it was critically flawed, I think since my memories of WC26 are fuzzy at best without looking at the paper trail, can't we just let any memories of the purported flaws fade as well?

I guess if I didn't have a good World Cup experience in 26, I wouldn't have returned to World Cup 27. I did, so that has to say something to the hosts' abilities (though RL busyness contributed to my departure a few Cups later, not the quality of the hosts).

I'm not feeling too Sherlock Holmesy tonight, so I'm not going to try and dig up the WC26 bid thread, but as long as the RP bonus and scorinator is the same as WC26, consider this bid as the one I'm going to throw my support behind (not that people look to me to sway their opinions).

[Burchadinger]

Since by the time of voting, I would have become a member of the WCC and become eligible to vote, I will lodge a question:

Is there any particular reason why you have decided to use the xkoranate formula for the skill modifiers?

[Commerce Heights]

Since by the time of voting, I would have become a member of the WCC and become eligible to vote, I will lodge a question:

Is there any particular reason why you have decided to use the xkoranate formula for the skill modifiers?

The NSFS style modifier formula creates an advantage for teams with higher style modifiers and a disadvantage for teams with lower style modifiers. The formula we will be using does no such thing, by generating a result first without style modifiers, and then increasing or decreasing the number of goals based on the teams’ style modifiers without changing the outcome (win/draw/loss).

[Vephrall]

The NSFS style modifier formula creates an advantage for teams with higher style modifiers and a disadvantage for teams with lower style modifiers.

As testing has shown, this is only the case for higher-ranked teams; it has the opposite effect for lower-ranked teams. I don't dispute that there is an issue with it, but this is a very important aspect that should be noted.

[Krytenia]

Let's get this straight. WC26 had issues. Mainly due to delays and problems with the scorinator.

Wow, that sounds familiar.

There were accusations of it being the "Worst Cup Ever!"

Wow, that sounds familiar.

But you know what? It was (mostly) well-run and (very) 2006, and both constituents have run World Cups smoothly since.

The KFA therefore supports this bid.

[Milchama]

The problems with WC 26 came down to this, a non RPing n00b made the World Cup.

County Islands!

Besides that it was fine (my 6-3 loss to Rordia in the first MD excepted).

That being said this is a fine bid but I would hope some competition will be available as competition is usually a good thing (I would volunteer to host but I don't have time unfortunately).