NS Cliches II: Re-Rebooted

[Frisemark]

Your just jealous my lore is uh, well developed.

So developed romance novelists wish to get in touch with you.

(none of which are women )

[Karazicu]

Felt like preserving this from the last thread, it was pretty cool

So, yeah, I think we'd all agree that "summerposter bad" and all that. I mean, hell, F7 is literally considered a spam forum by a number of posters outside of this place; take this in Commend Val Z for example. Sure, that's just one opinion, but still... think about it- F7 has an autoprune. No other forum does. F7 is literally built to encourage what we call "spam" and low-effort forum games.

In thinking about this, though, I came to three realizations about the topic. The first is that F7 is as of late (at least in my opinion) getting more divisive in terms of how it views summerposters and effortposters. The second is that those two groups, summerposters and effortposters, are more or less irreconcilable in their goals on this forum. And the third is that (as much as we as effortposters dislike summerposters and other one-liner posters) both groups need the other to survive.

Here's why:

At least to my perceptions, as a result of the pandemic we've seen an influx in new users who aren't really a part of our established community here, which I'll for the purposes of this post refer to as "effortposters." These summerposters don't have an interest in using this forum as for more or less what we have been, as a writing forum- they take its description, as a place to goof off, at face value, and thus don't particularly care about writing massive posts because it's in their eyes not what they're here for. Sure, we'd appreciate it if we did, but we can't- and we won't ever be able to.

There is a difference in not just intent but in perception of the purpose of the forums on F7- take, for instance, Rein. Rein is here because Rein's written all his lore and he wants to share it in a casual setting; F7's the place for that, since an OOC review can't go in any of the IC forums, P2TM is explicitly not for NS stuff, A&F is about other franchises, Cards is for a minigame, General's a containment board (and also doesn't care), GenSec and the SC obviously don't work, and, well... try it in Technical and Moderation, I dare you. Furthermore, he's got an established community that he's a part of that has an appetite for his works, and therefore he shares with them and has a hell of a lot of fun doing it, because they're willing to appreciate the effort he's put into it and return it.

But then let's take another, this time theoretical poster- idk, Summertopia or some shit like that. This user hasn't seen NS before, and the other forums pretty much all require an existing presence to make one's way in; F7, then, is this nation's only option for posting too- but our established community isn't theirs, either. The only thing they can do is join in the joke forums. That's not a bad thing, either- it's what F7 is ultimately here for.

But these two groups can't be reconciled. One is an established community, the other is just a collection of users. One has established standards of quality, the other doesn't. The difference is that the former community, the effortposters, aren't actually using F7 for its intended purpose; the summerposters are. Is that a bad thing? No, it's not- not by any means. And here's why- this is the important bit.

WITHOUT SUMMERPOSTERS, THERE IS NO F7. WITHOUT EFFORTPOSTERS, THERE IS NO MEANINGFUL F7.

In terms of the "lifespan" of your average NS user, at least your average F7er, we see something like this: you either flunk out and CTE as a summerposter or you take an interest in this writing thing you see the effortposters doing and join in on that. You improve, you grow, and you get better. We were all summerposters at one point- I more recently than most of you. We learned from the upper class of effortposters and grew to be more like them. Well, maybe not Synne; I'm not fully convinced that Synne isn't the not!Ace Combat version of Athena, springing fully-formed from Max Barry's head with the knowledge of the inner workings of BBCode already in his mind. But for the rest of us, it's a matter of improving and getting better. Could we have done that without having effortposters to set an example for us? Hell no we couldn't.

So therefore effortposters are essential. But so are summerposters- think about your average effortpost. Is it enjoyable for you to make it? Yeah, but how long does it take you to make it? Quite a while, right? Yeah. And it takes a lot out of you to make essay-length post after post; it's hardly sustainable either, for me at least. We need summerposters to keep up the posting rate of this forum, to make it more energetic and lively, to fill the gaps effortposters can't, and to supply the precious few users who choose to learn and grow and become more like effortposters. Take away the summerposters and you lose the influx of new users- we wouldn't survive, not indefinitely. F7 needs summerposters to survive; hell, as shown above it was literally designed for them. As much as we don't want to admit it, we're the interlopers. We're also the gateway to the rest of NS for those few who decide to grow and not just get bored and leave.

Now, with those facts out of the way, let's get to the conclusion: What do we do about all this?

Well, the answer is more or less nothing. It's not ignoring summerposters, because that doesn't work. You can't get rid of summerposters and have an F7 left behind to enjoy, even if you wanted to. Furthermore, ignoring those of us who don't want to make massive-ass walls of text every post we make is just going to make F7 more hostile and toxic of a place to be. I mean, we don't want to end up like GenSec or Gameplay, right? They hold themselves to strict quality standards, and the consensus opinion on them in this forum is to my perception largely that they've got sticks up their asses. But on the other hand, going the way of II and one-liner RPs isn't the way we want to go either, which I feel is what might happen if we let summerposting "run rampant".

I would propose, then, that the "solution" is, more or less, being courteous and kind to other people. Now, this is a hell of a lot to expect of anyone. But here's the thing, as I see it- we, as a community, can't go on being asses to the people who ultimately enable F7 to be an attractive and not an intimidating place for newcomers to jump into. I would've fucked right off six months ago when I first showed up if there weren't threads that didn't require that high of an investment for me to jump into and get settled here. As much as I'd like this to be our writing community, it'd put F7 on life-support, essentially. If we don't have new posters coming in then eventually one by one we'll all fuck off as a result of a lack of new content and engagement or go to discords or something and there'll be no one left. On the other hand, people are being pushed off to discords and other places as a result of summerposting, and that's not tolerable either; it just makes it worse for people here because they're fighting a losing battle.

Therefore the only thing we can do is tolerate when we get shafted, support each other by hopping into threads where we see other people with high-effort posts getting the short end of the stick, and generally make ourselves a little more... tolerable and welcoming, I guess. I mean, people will react better to "hey, mate, what do you think about this in more than a few words?" than they will "fuck summerposters, all my homies hate summerposters." It's just a matter of doing right by your mates that makes things worthwhile- I mean, I stick around here because I enjoy spending time with y'all. At the same time, though, if we can expand our [community of F7 frens] rather than just protecting it from people who might with a little coaching be able to join it, we're doing ourselves and this entire forum a disservice.

We are the people shaping how this forum is arranged. If we bitch about it, we can't do jack-shit. If we accept summerposters and help them to grow instead of putting them down, then we'll see improvement. Slow improvement, and only minor improvement- summerposters are and will always be an essential part of F7, and nothing will ever change that. But improvement nonetheless.

Look at it this way: Val made an etiquette guide. Be like Val- if we set the consensus "accepted bar" of this forum high enough to get the people who want to go higher to be able to reach it through constructive means, by coaching people where they are rather than ranting about them here, then we'll be able to get more effortposts. Summerposters aren't the problem- they'll always be around. But if we helped each other out and them to get better, then things will probably get better.

I know one-liners are irritating. God fucking damn it, I know they are. But what's important is that we don't punish, we prevent- an ounce is worth a megaton. We can fix things. There are enough of us here to do it.

All we have to lose is our chains the braincells gone from low-effort posting. But we were already doing that, so... we don't lose anything, really. We can only go up from here.

[The Jamesian Republic]

So developed romance novelists wish to get in touch with you.

(none of which are women )

Lol

[Meadowfields]

Felt like preserving this from the last thread, it was pretty cool

So, yeah, I think we'd all agree that "summerposter bad" and all that. I mean, hell, F7 is literally considered a spam forum by a number of posters outside of this place; take this in Commend Val Z for example. Sure, that's just one opinion, but still... think about it- F7 has an autoprune. No other forum does. F7 is literally built to encourage what we call "spam" and low-effort forum games.

In thinking about this, though, I came to three realizations about the topic. The first is that F7 is as of late (at least in my opinion) getting more divisive in terms of how it views summerposters and effortposters. The second is that those two groups, summerposters and effortposters, are more or less irreconcilable in their goals on this forum. And the third is that (as much as we as effortposters dislike summerposters and other one-liner posters) both groups need the other to survive.

Here's why:

At least to my perceptions, as a result of the pandemic we've seen an influx in new users who aren't really a part of our established community here, which I'll for the purposes of this post refer to as "effortposters." These summerposters don't have an interest in using this forum as for more or less what we have been, as a writing forum- they take its description, as a place to goof off, at face value, and thus don't particularly care about writing massive posts because it's in their eyes not what they're here for. Sure, we'd appreciate it if we did, but we can't- and we won't ever be able to.

There is a difference in not just intent but in perception of the purpose of the forums on F7- take, for instance, Rein. Rein is here because Rein's written all his lore and he wants to share it in a casual setting; F7's the place for that, since an OOC review can't go in any of the IC forums, P2TM is explicitly not for NS stuff, A&F is about other franchises, Cards is for a minigame, General's a containment board (and also doesn't care), GenSec and the SC obviously don't work, and, well... try it in Technical and Moderation, I dare you. Furthermore, he's got an established community that he's a part of that has an appetite for his works, and therefore he shares with them and has a hell of a lot of fun doing it, because they're willing to appreciate the effort he's put into it and return it.

But then let's take another, this time theoretical poster- idk, Summertopia or some shit like that. This user hasn't seen NS before, and the other forums pretty much all require an existing presence to make one's way in; F7, then, is this nation's only option for posting too- but our established community isn't theirs, either. The only thing they can do is join in the joke forums. That's not a bad thing, either- it's what F7 is ultimately here for.

But these two groups can't be reconciled. One is an established community, the other is just a collection of users. One has established standards of quality, the other doesn't. The difference is that the former community, the effortposters, aren't actually using F7 for its intended purpose; the summerposters are. Is that a bad thing? No, it's not- not by any means. And here's why- this is the important bit.

WITHOUT SUMMERPOSTERS, THERE IS NO F7. WITHOUT EFFORTPOSTERS, THERE IS NO MEANINGFUL F7.

In terms of the "lifespan" of your average NS user, at least your average F7er, we see something like this: you either flunk out and CTE as a summerposter or you take an interest in this writing thing you see the effortposters doing and join in on that. You improve, you grow, and you get better. We were all summerposters at one point- I more recently than most of you. We learned from the upper class of effortposters and grew to be more like them. Well, maybe not Synne; I'm not fully convinced that Synne isn't the not!Ace Combat version of Athena, springing fully-formed from Max Barry's head with the knowledge of the inner workings of BBCode already in his mind. But for the rest of us, it's a matter of improving and getting better. Could we have done that without having effortposters to set an example for us? Hell no we couldn't.

So therefore effortposters are essential. But so are summerposters- think about your average effortpost. Is it enjoyable for you to make it? Yeah, but how long does it take you to make it? Quite a while, right? Yeah. And it takes a lot out of you to make essay-length post after post; it's hardly sustainable either, for me at least. We need summerposters to keep up the posting rate of this forum, to make it more energetic and lively, to fill the gaps effortposters can't, and to supply the precious few users who choose to learn and grow and become more like effortposters. Take away the summerposters and you lose the influx of new users- we wouldn't survive, not indefinitely. F7 needs summerposters to survive; hell, as shown above it was literally designed for them. As much as we don't want to admit it, we're the interlopers. We're also the gateway to the rest of NS for those few who decide to grow and not just get bored and leave.

Now, with those facts out of the way, let's get to the conclusion: What do we do about all this?

Well, the answer is more or less nothing. It's not ignoring summerposters, because that doesn't work. You can't get rid of summerposters and have an F7 left behind to enjoy, even if you wanted to. Furthermore, ignoring those of us who don't want to make massive-ass walls of text every post we make is just going to make F7 more hostile and toxic of a place to be. I mean, we don't want to end up like GenSec or Gameplay, right? They hold themselves to strict quality standards, and the consensus opinion on them in this forum is to my perception largely that they've got sticks up their asses. But on the other hand, going the way of II and one-liner RPs isn't the way we want to go either, which I feel is what might happen if we let summerposting "run rampant".

I would propose, then, that the "solution" is, more or less, being courteous and kind to other people. Now, this is a hell of a lot to expect of anyone. But here's the thing, as I see it- we, as a community, can't go on being asses to the people who ultimately enable F7 to be an attractive and not an intimidating place for newcomers to jump into. I would've fucked right off six months ago when I first showed up if there weren't threads that didn't require that high of an investment for me to jump into and get settled here. As much as I'd like this to be our writing community, it'd put F7 on life-support, essentially. If we don't have new posters coming in then eventually one by one we'll all fuck off as a result of a lack of new content and engagement or go to discords or something and there'll be no one left. On the other hand, people are being pushed off to discords and other places as a result of summerposting, and that's not tolerable either; it just makes it worse for people here because they're fighting a losing battle.

Therefore the only thing we can do is tolerate when we get shafted, support each other by hopping into threads where we see other people with high-effort posts getting the short end of the stick, and generally make ourselves a little more... tolerable and welcoming, I guess. I mean, people will react better to "hey, mate, what do you think about this in more than a few words?" than they will "fuck summerposters, all my homies hate summerposters." It's just a matter of doing right by your mates that makes things worthwhile- I mean, I stick around here because I enjoy spending time with y'all. At the same time, though, if we can expand our [community of F7 frens] rather than just protecting it from people who might with a little coaching be able to join it, we're doing ourselves and this entire forum a disservice.

We are the people shaping how this forum is arranged. If we bitch about it, we can't do jack-shit. If we accept summerposters and help them to grow instead of putting them down, then we'll see improvement. Slow improvement, and only minor improvement- summerposters are and will always be an essential part of F7, and nothing will ever change that. But improvement nonetheless.

Look at it this way: Val made an etiquette guide. Be like Val- if we set the consensus "accepted bar" of this forum high enough to get the people who want to go higher to be able to reach it through constructive means, by coaching people where they are rather than ranting about them here, then we'll be able to get more effortposts. Summerposters aren't the problem- they'll always be around. But if we helped each other out and them to get better, then things will probably get better.

I know one-liners are irritating. God fucking damn it, I know they are. But what's important is that we don't punish, we prevent- an ounce is worth a megaton. We can fix things. There are enough of us here to do it.

All we have to lose is our chains the braincells gone from low-effort posting. But we were already doing that, so... we don't lose anything, really. We can only go up from here.

That's one of the longest posts I've ever seen in the history of NS, except for WA proposals.

[Caitlinia]

Felt like preserving this from the last thread, it was pretty cool

So, yeah, I think we'd all agree that "summerposter bad" and all that. I mean, hell, F7 is literally considered a spam forum by a number of posters outside of this place; take this in Commend Val Z for example. Sure, that's just one opinion, but still... think about it- F7 has an autoprune. No other forum does. F7 is literally built to encourage what we call "spam" and low-effort forum games.

In thinking about this, though, I came to three realizations about the topic. The first is that F7 is as of late (at least in my opinion) getting more divisive in terms of how it views summerposters and effortposters. The second is that those two groups, summerposters and effortposters, are more or less irreconcilable in their goals on this forum. And the third is that (as much as we as effortposters dislike summerposters and other one-liner posters) both groups need the other to survive.

Here's why:

At least to my perceptions, as a result of the pandemic we've seen an influx in new users who aren't really a part of our established community here, which I'll for the purposes of this post refer to as "effortposters." These summerposters don't have an interest in using this forum as for more or less what we have been, as a writing forum- they take its description, as a place to goof off, at face value, and thus don't particularly care about writing massive posts because it's in their eyes not what they're here for. Sure, we'd appreciate it if we did, but we can't- and we won't ever be able to.

There is a difference in not just intent but in perception of the purpose of the forums on F7- take, for instance, Rein. Rein is here because Rein's written all his lore and he wants to share it in a casual setting; F7's the place for that, since an OOC review can't go in any of the IC forums, P2TM is explicitly not for NS stuff, A&F is about other franchises, Cards is for a minigame, General's a containment board (and also doesn't care), GenSec and the SC obviously don't work, and, well... try it in Technical and Moderation, I dare you. Furthermore, he's got an established community that he's a part of that has an appetite for his works, and therefore he shares with them and has a hell of a lot of fun doing it, because they're willing to appreciate the effort he's put into it and return it.

But then let's take another, this time theoretical poster- idk, Summertopia or some shit like that. This user hasn't seen NS before, and the other forums pretty much all require an existing presence to make one's way in; F7, then, is this nation's only option for posting too- but our established community isn't theirs, either. The only thing they can do is join in the joke forums. That's not a bad thing, either- it's what F7 is ultimately here for.

But these two groups can't be reconciled. One is an established community, the other is just a collection of users. One has established standards of quality, the other doesn't. The difference is that the former community, the effortposters, aren't actually using F7 for its intended purpose; the summerposters are. Is that a bad thing? No, it's not- not by any means. And here's why- this is the important bit.

WITHOUT SUMMERPOSTERS, THERE IS NO F7. WITHOUT EFFORTPOSTERS, THERE IS NO MEANINGFUL F7.

In terms of the "lifespan" of your average NS user, at least your average F7er, we see something like this: you either flunk out and CTE as a summerposter or you take an interest in this writing thing you see the effortposters doing and join in on that. You improve, you grow, and you get better. We were all summerposters at one point- I more recently than most of you. We learned from the upper class of effortposters and grew to be more like them. Well, maybe not Synne; I'm not fully convinced that Synne isn't the not!Ace Combat version of Athena, springing fully-formed from Max Barry's head with the knowledge of the inner workings of BBCode already in his mind. But for the rest of us, it's a matter of improving and getting better. Could we have done that without having effortposters to set an example for us? Hell no we couldn't.

So therefore effortposters are essential. But so are summerposters- think about your average effortpost. Is it enjoyable for you to make it? Yeah, but how long does it take you to make it? Quite a while, right? Yeah. And it takes a lot out of you to make essay-length post after post; it's hardly sustainable either, for me at least. We need summerposters to keep up the posting rate of this forum, to make it more energetic and lively, to fill the gaps effortposters can't, and to supply the precious few users who choose to learn and grow and become more like effortposters. Take away the summerposters and you lose the influx of new users- we wouldn't survive, not indefinitely. F7 needs summerposters to survive; hell, as shown above it was literally designed for them. As much as we don't want to admit it, we're the interlopers. We're also the gateway to the rest of NS for those few who decide to grow and not just get bored and leave.

Now, with those facts out of the way, let's get to the conclusion: What do we do about all this?

Well, the answer is more or less nothing. It's not ignoring summerposters, because that doesn't work. You can't get rid of summerposters and have an F7 left behind to enjoy, even if you wanted to. Furthermore, ignoring those of us who don't want to make massive-ass walls of text every post we make is just going to make F7 more hostile and toxic of a place to be. I mean, we don't want to end up like GenSec or Gameplay, right? They hold themselves to strict quality standards, and the consensus opinion on them in this forum is to my perception largely that they've got sticks up their asses. But on the other hand, going the way of II and one-liner RPs isn't the way we want to go either, which I feel is what might happen if we let summerposting "run rampant".

I would propose, then, that the "solution" is, more or less, being courteous and kind to other people. Now, this is a hell of a lot to expect of anyone. But here's the thing, as I see it- we, as a community, can't go on being asses to the people who ultimately enable F7 to be an attractive and not an intimidating place for newcomers to jump into. I would've fucked right off six months ago when I first showed up if there weren't threads that didn't require that high of an investment for me to jump into and get settled here. As much as I'd like this to be our writing community, it'd put F7 on life-support, essentially. If we don't have new posters coming in then eventually one by one we'll all fuck off as a result of a lack of new content and engagement or go to discords or something and there'll be no one left. On the other hand, people are being pushed off to discords and other places as a result of summerposting, and that's not tolerable either; it just makes it worse for people here because they're fighting a losing battle.

Therefore the only thing we can do is tolerate when we get shafted, support each other by hopping into threads where we see other people with high-effort posts getting the short end of the stick, and generally make ourselves a little more... tolerable and welcoming, I guess. I mean, people will react better to "hey, mate, what do you think about this in more than a few words?" than they will "fuck summerposters, all my homies hate summerposters." It's just a matter of doing right by your mates that makes things worthwhile- I mean, I stick around here because I enjoy spending time with y'all. At the same time, though, if we can expand our [community of F7 frens] rather than just protecting it from people who might with a little coaching be able to join it, we're doing ourselves and this entire forum a disservice.

We are the people shaping how this forum is arranged. If we bitch about it, we can't do jack-shit. If we accept summerposters and help them to grow instead of putting them down, then we'll see improvement. Slow improvement, and only minor improvement- summerposters are and will always be an essential part of F7, and nothing will ever change that. But improvement nonetheless.

Look at it this way: Val made an etiquette guide. Be like Val- if we set the consensus "accepted bar" of this forum high enough to get the people who want to go higher to be able to reach it through constructive means, by coaching people where they are rather than ranting about them here, then we'll be able to get more effortposts. Summerposters aren't the problem- they'll always be around. But if we helped each other out and them to get better, then things will probably get better.

I know one-liners are irritating. God fucking damn it, I know they are. But what's important is that we don't punish, we prevent- an ounce is worth a megaton. We can fix things. There are enough of us here to do it.

All we have to lose is our chains the braincells gone from low-effort posting. But we were already doing that, so... we don't lose anything, really. We can only go up from here.

Woah that's an amazing post

I wish not to be a summie either way. I guess its kinda hard to expect people to make posts on the level of Val or Kiu when they just start on the forum.

[Meadowfields]

Felt like preserving this from the last thread, it was pretty cool

Woah that's an amazing post

I wish not to be a summie either way. I guess its kinda hard to expect people to make posts on the level of Val or Kiu when they just start on the forum.

Yeah, I do remember getting called a summie once but luckily it was a solitary situation.

[The Jamesian Republic]

I was a Summie too. However I found my place in things like RP American Politics and Hot Takes

[South Reinkalistan]

ahhhh the 'summie' discourse. back to square one of NS Cliches thread. spengler was right, history is truly cyclical

[The Orwell Society]

Unsavory cliche: people with high post counts but young nations are spammers

[Meadowfields]

Unsavory cliche: people with high post counts but young nations are spammers

Then I am a spammer considering that I CTE'd for a long time until April. I've made 4,300 posts overall in these three months.

[Dayganistan]

ahhhh the 'summie' discourse. back to square one of NS Cliches thread. spengler was right, history is truly cyclical

The summies aren't even that bad this year either. But then again, I avoid NSG so...

[Diarcesia]

Felt like preserving this from the last thread, it was pretty cool

So, yeah, I think we'd all agree that "summerposter bad" and all that. I mean, hell, F7 is literally considered a spam forum by a number of posters outside of this place; take this in Commend Val Z for example. Sure, that's just one opinion, but still... think about it- F7 has an autoprune. No other forum does. F7 is literally built to encourage what we call "spam" and low-effort forum games.

In thinking about this, though, I came to three realizations about the topic. The first is that F7 is as of late (at least in my opinion) getting more divisive in terms of how it views summerposters and effortposters. The second is that those two groups, summerposters and effortposters, are more or less irreconcilable in their goals on this forum. And the third is that (as much as we as effortposters dislike summerposters and other one-liner posters) both groups need the other to survive.

Here's why:

At least to my perceptions, as a result of the pandemic we've seen an influx in new users who aren't really a part of our established community here, which I'll for the purposes of this post refer to as "effortposters." These summerposters don't have an interest in using this forum as for more or less what we have been, as a writing forum- they take its description, as a place to goof off, at face value, and thus don't particularly care about writing massive posts because it's in their eyes not what they're here for. Sure, we'd appreciate it if we did, but we can't- and we won't ever be able to.

There is a difference in not just intent but in perception of the purpose of the forums on F7- take, for instance, Rein. Rein is here because Rein's written all his lore and he wants to share it in a casual setting; F7's the place for that, since an OOC review can't go in any of the IC forums, P2TM is explicitly not for NS stuff, A&F is about other franchises, Cards is for a minigame, General's a containment board (and also doesn't care), GenSec and the SC obviously don't work, and, well... try it in Technical and Moderation, I dare you. Furthermore, he's got an established community that he's a part of that has an appetite for his works, and therefore he shares with them and has a hell of a lot of fun doing it, because they're willing to appreciate the effort he's put into it and return it.

But then let's take another, this time theoretical poster- idk, Summertopia or some shit like that. This user hasn't seen NS before, and the other forums pretty much all require an existing presence to make one's way in; F7, then, is this nation's only option for posting too- but our established community isn't theirs, either. The only thing they can do is join in the joke forums. That's not a bad thing, either- it's what F7 is ultimately here for.

But these two groups can't be reconciled. One is an established community, the other is just a collection of users. One has established standards of quality, the other doesn't. The difference is that the former community, the effortposters, aren't actually using F7 for its intended purpose; the summerposters are. Is that a bad thing? No, it's not- not by any means. And here's why- this is the important bit.

WITHOUT SUMMERPOSTERS, THERE IS NO F7. WITHOUT EFFORTPOSTERS, THERE IS NO MEANINGFUL F7.

In terms of the "lifespan" of your average NS user, at least your average F7er, we see something like this: you either flunk out and CTE as a summerposter or you take an interest in this writing thing you see the effortposters doing and join in on that. You improve, you grow, and you get better. We were all summerposters at one point- I more recently than most of you. We learned from the upper class of effortposters and grew to be more like them. Well, maybe not Synne; I'm not fully convinced that Synne isn't the not!Ace Combat version of Athena, springing fully-formed from Max Barry's head with the knowledge of the inner workings of BBCode already in his mind. But for the rest of us, it's a matter of improving and getting better. Could we have done that without having effortposters to set an example for us? Hell no we couldn't.

So therefore effortposters are essential. But so are summerposters- think about your average effortpost. Is it enjoyable for you to make it? Yeah, but how long does it take you to make it? Quite a while, right? Yeah. And it takes a lot out of you to make essay-length post after post; it's hardly sustainable either, for me at least. We need summerposters to keep up the posting rate of this forum, to make it more energetic and lively, to fill the gaps effortposters can't, and to supply the precious few users who choose to learn and grow and become more like effortposters. Take away the summerposters and you lose the influx of new users- we wouldn't survive, not indefinitely. F7 needs summerposters to survive; hell, as shown above it was literally designed for them. As much as we don't want to admit it, we're the interlopers. We're also the gateway to the rest of NS for those few who decide to grow and not just get bored and leave.

Now, with those facts out of the way, let's get to the conclusion: What do we do about all this?

Well, the answer is more or less nothing. It's not ignoring summerposters, because that doesn't work. You can't get rid of summerposters and have an F7 left behind to enjoy, even if you wanted to. Furthermore, ignoring those of us who don't want to make massive-ass walls of text every post we make is just going to make F7 more hostile and toxic of a place to be. I mean, we don't want to end up like GenSec or Gameplay, right? They hold themselves to strict quality standards, and the consensus opinion on them in this forum is to my perception largely that they've got sticks up their asses. But on the other hand, going the way of II and one-liner RPs isn't the way we want to go either, which I feel is what might happen if we let summerposting "run rampant".

I would propose, then, that the "solution" is, more or less, being courteous and kind to other people. Now, this is a hell of a lot to expect of anyone. But here's the thing, as I see it- we, as a community, can't go on being asses to the people who ultimately enable F7 to be an attractive and not an intimidating place for newcomers to jump into. I would've fucked right off six months ago when I first showed up if there weren't threads that didn't require that high of an investment for me to jump into and get settled here. As much as I'd like this to be our writing community, it'd put F7 on life-support, essentially. If we don't have new posters coming in then eventually one by one we'll all fuck off as a result of a lack of new content and engagement or go to discords or something and there'll be no one left. On the other hand, people are being pushed off to discords and other places as a result of summerposting, and that's not tolerable either; it just makes it worse for people here because they're fighting a losing battle.

Therefore the only thing we can do is tolerate when we get shafted, support each other by hopping into threads where we see other people with high-effort posts getting the short end of the stick, and generally make ourselves a little more... tolerable and welcoming, I guess. I mean, people will react better to "hey, mate, what do you think about this in more than a few words?" than they will "fuck summerposters, all my homies hate summerposters." It's just a matter of doing right by your mates that makes things worthwhile- I mean, I stick around here because I enjoy spending time with y'all. At the same time, though, if we can expand our [community of F7 frens] rather than just protecting it from people who might with a little coaching be able to join it, we're doing ourselves and this entire forum a disservice.

We are the people shaping how this forum is arranged. If we bitch about it, we can't do jack-shit. If we accept summerposters and help them to grow instead of putting them down, then we'll see improvement. Slow improvement, and only minor improvement- summerposters are and will always be an essential part of F7, and nothing will ever change that. But improvement nonetheless.

Look at it this way: Val made an etiquette guide. Be like Val- if we set the consensus "accepted bar" of this forum high enough to get the people who want to go higher to be able to reach it through constructive means, by coaching people where they are rather than ranting about them here, then we'll be able to get more effortposts. Summerposters aren't the problem- they'll always be around. But if we helped each other out and them to get better, then things will probably get better.

I know one-liners are irritating. God fucking damn it, I know they are. But what's important is that we don't punish, we prevent- an ounce is worth a megaton. We can fix things. There are enough of us here to do it.

All we have to lose is our chains the braincells gone from low-effort posting. But we were already doing that, so... we don't lose anything, really. We can only go up from here.

Kiu's posts summed up my thoughts as well. I think the best course of action is to put your expectations of what you like BN's post to be like in your sig. That way, it's communicated properly.

I don't put my expectations in my sig. And even though sometimes a low-effort or mistaken reply would frustrate me, I take a deep breath and move on. For my part, if AN says they want an effortpost, I will make an effortpost. It's just that I dedicate a set amount of time per week to browsing F7 as part of my RL time management. I prefer not to spend it all in one post when there are several interesting threads to reply to.

One-liners aren't automatically bad. It may be more challenging to provide good information using that route, but I prefer a concise reply over a wall of text full of filler words.

[The Orwell Society]

Unsavory cliche: people with high post counts but young nations are spammers

Then I am a spammer considering that I CTE'd for a long time until April. I've made 4,300 posts overall in these three months.

I've got over 1200 posts under my belt and I created this nation in May for RP purposes.

[Meadowfields]

Then I am a spammer considering that I CTE'd for a long time until April. I've made 4,300 posts overall in these three months.

I've got over 1200 posts under my belt and I created this nation in May for RP purposes.

*April

[Ulajhan]

Man, I wish I had gotten on to the first page but I'll take the third.

[Drongonia]

Then I am a spammer considering that I CTE'd for a long time until April. I've made 4,300 posts overall in these three months.

I've got over 1200 posts under my belt and I created this nation in May for RP purposes.

Compared to you two I'm a snail lol. I think my forum-calculated average is <2 posts per day.

[The Orwell Society]

I've got over 1200 posts under my belt and I created this nation in May for RP purposes.

Compared to you two I'm a snail lol. I think my forum-calculated average is <2 posts per day.

16 for me. It reached a high of 19 and then I slowed down a bit

[Meadowfields]

I've got over 1200 posts under my belt and I created this nation in May for RP purposes.

Compared to you two I'm a snail lol. I think my forum-calculated average is <2 posts per day.

that only counts non-f7 posts, but you would still have an average of 8. also, the averages don't really work. for example, i made 118 forum posts today (so far), but my forum average (even counting f7 posts) would be 12 (mainly because I CTE'D)

Compared to you two I'm a snail lol. I think my forum-calculated average is <2 posts per day.

16 for me. It reached a high of 19 and then I slowed down a bit

You would have 17 if counting F7 posts.

[Aureumterra III]

cliche: new thread smell posts

new thread smell

[Bistritza]

This isn't a cliche it's a trope but it's redundant enough that I'll mention it.
National military factbooks which are very detailed. Which is to say, they contain custom made models of small arms weapons which could realistically be designed by an actual factory; going so far to detail the perimeter of a gun's barrel size. It gives off the feeling that they're a military engineering drop-out or something.
This doesn't annoy me. It almost impresses me but the first vibe I get is being absolutely terrified of the user.

[Sky Citadel]

This isn't a cliche it's a trope but it's redundant enough that I'll mention it.
National military factbooks which are very detailed. Which is to say, they contain custom made models of small arms weapons which could realistically be designed by an actual factory; going so far to detail the perimeter of a gun's barrel size. It gives off the feeling that they're a military engineering drop-out or something.
This doesn't annoy me. It almost impresses me but the first vibe I get is being absolutely terrified of the user.

For my next factbook we have a house suspiciously similar to the reader's.

[Comfed]

Felt like preserving this from the last thread, it was pretty cool

That's one of the longest posts I've ever seen in the history of NS, except for WA proposals.

Clearly you've never seen a real textwall

[Caitlinia]

This isn't a cliche it's a trope but it's redundant enough that I'll mention it.
National military factbooks which are very detailed. Which is to say, they contain custom made models of small arms weapons which could realistically be designed by an actual factory; going so far to detail the perimeter of a gun's barrel size. It gives off the feeling that they're a military engineering drop-out or something.
This doesn't annoy me. It almost impresses me but the first vibe I get is being absolutely terrified of the user.

Yeah there's nothing wrong with it, but it's really common. A lot of nations kinda forgo political stuff just to (I guess) spend more time writing about the military. Kinda defeats the point of NationStates imo

[Gonswanza]

Big cliche-

Over-reliance on the political compass. Yes, we get it, your queer leader is totes Libertarian Left, waw!

That ain't saying shit about what they actually believe in, or what their views truly are. Not everything is a plot point on some obscure chart that's more akin to a horoscope than an actual thing for gauging one's views.

[Foehn Paramilitary Regions]

Big cliche-

Over-reliance on the political compass. Yes, we get it, your queer leader is totes Libertarian Left, waw!

That ain't saying shit about what they actually believe in, or what their views truly are. Not everything is a plot point on some obscure chart that's more akin to a horoscope than an actual thing for gauging one's views.

no no you see my leader has to be in this specific point of this political compass that is based on pretty much nothing I tell you what the fuck do you mean that the polcomp is useless for actually telling me things???

On another note, how about the classic "agrees, neutral, disagrees" trio that you tend to see on a lot of characters? I think that's useless as well (even if marginally less so than the polcomp solution), simply because it tries to simplify a person's political views to a mere trio of absolutes. I will say this: there's a good reason most iconic characters don't tend to do this by itself (and the ones that do are not exactly the kinds of people to have nuanced political views in the first place - and this is one of the few cases where I'd say that the trio is helpful).