Is Compulsory Military Service Fascism?

[Floofybit]

You pay money, not your life

You end up paying with your life if you don't pay with money

No you don't.

[PhilTech]

You pay money, not your life

You end up paying with your life if you don't pay with money

Quite true I am afraid.

[Drongonia]

You end up paying with your life if you don't pay with money

No you don't.

Yeah, you do. You're usually locked up for consistent non payment of taxes. The point being made was that by the metric of "force and coercion = fascism" literally any governmental or societal norm could be fascism.

[Floofybit]

No you don't.

Yeah, you do. You're usually locked up for consistent non payment of taxes. The point being made was that by the metric of "force and coercion = fascism" literally any governmental or societal norm could be fascism.

Getting locked up isn't paying for your life. But I guess I see where you're coming from.

[Drongonia]

Yeah, you do. You're usually locked up for consistent non payment of taxes. The point being made was that by the metric of "force and coercion = fascism" literally any governmental or societal norm could be fascism.

Getting locked up isn't paying for your life. But I guess I see where you're coming from.

It is paying with your life. Yes, you're alive - but you're not living. You can't do what you want to do, live the life you'd like, spend time with family etc etc etc.

[Adamede]

Nope. Multiple types of governments use mandatory conscription.

[The Two Jerseys]

Notoriously fascist Switzerland...

[-Astoria-]

Might as well say paying taxes is fascism.

You say that in jest, but there are people who would unironically tgibk such...

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

I think the forum is full of Turkish nationalists. I call out to all homophobic, religious, border-loving, right-wing fascists. I pride myself on being a coward and trying to stay clean in this dystopia you've created. You think you're really smart, don't you? If someone tries to break into my house, I will defend my loved ones and myself, but this does not justify conscription fascism.

[Sky Reavers]

Sadly, there are people in power, who can't make love due to the age or something, which is why they make war. Still, I belive, that volunteer force is better than conscript one, expecially in the age, where quantity becomes less important than it was during the old age. Volunteers are just more inclined than some random dude dragged from the streets, to have qualities, that are must have for a soldier.

[The Astral Mandate]

I think the forum is full of Turkish nationalists. I call out to all homophobic, religious, border-loving, right-wing fascists. I pride myself on being a coward and trying to stay clean in this dystopia you've created. You think you're really smart, don't you? If someone tries to break into my house, I will defend my loved ones and myself, but this does not justify conscription fascism.

(Image)

I do think that you should not have been treated the way you were.
I do think that conscription is only useful in very specific cases. (Say, nations bordering Turkey that are against them)
I do not think that all states practicing conscription are fascist.

[Fan-T Pashtunistan]

I think the forum is full of Turkish nationalists. I call out to all homophobic, religious, border-loving, right-wing fascists. I pride myself on being a coward and trying to stay clean in this dystopia you've created. You think you're really smart, don't you? If someone tries to break into my house, I will defend my loved ones and myself, but this does not justify conscription fascism.

(Image)

1. So you’d use physical force against the home invaders?
Not very pacifist.
2.You described yourself as a Kemalist, you realise Ataturk fought in wars?

[Paddy O Fernature]

I think the forum is full of Turkish nationalists. I call out to all homophobic, religious, border-loving, right-wing fascists. I pride myself on being a coward and trying to stay clean in this dystopia you've created. You think you're really smart, don't you? If someone tries to break into my house, I will defend my loved ones and myself, but this does not justify conscription fascism.

(Image)

There are also people who think that the world is flat.

Doesn't magically make it so.

[-Northumbria]

Contrary to popular usage, the word "fascism" doesn't simply mean "the government making me do something that I don't want to do." Fascism is characterised by totalitarianism, palingenetic ultranationalism, militarism, social Darwinism, and Third Position economics; whilst compulsory military service is certainly something one would expect to see in a fascist society given those things, its presence is not, in and of itself, a marker of fascism. In fact, some of the most highly democratic and liberal societies in the world have compulsory military service, such as Sweden, Finland and Switzerland.

As for whether national service is justified or not, membership in a community should always be a reciprocal relationship with both benefits for individuals and responsibilities to the community as a whole. The nation is, in general, the largest community a person is likely to be part of that has a significant impact on their life. The responsibilities of national citizenship generally extend no further than paying taxes and respecting the law, but I strongly believe that contributing to the collective defence of the community is a reasonable obligation for the state to place on its citizens. To enjoy the benefits of membership in a community without contributing to the collective interest is parasitic and immoral. The argument for conscription when there is no active threat to the community is less watertight, but I would favour the reintroduction of national service here in the UK. There is a significant benefit to the nation in having a large portion of the general population acquire some basic military training, and that aside, it's a good opportunity for young people to learn new skills and interact with other citizens from different backgrounds whom they might never get the chance to in ordinary life. None of the older people I know who actually experienced national service when it was still in existence here recall it as anything but a highly rewarding experience. There should be some alternative form of community service made available for those who, for practical reasons or due to ethical objections, cannot serve in the military, however.

I thought you better than this. 'palingenetic ultranationalism' is a silly concept. Roger Griffin would make a great comedian really: "Yes Irish republicanism would count by the definition I have set out... but it doesn't... because it just doesn't OK?".

[Indo States]

Actually, it is fascist, since Compulsory Military Service, especially on College-aged People is totally evil since that would deprive their right to not join the Military, and this would Breed Hazing, Torture and Corruption, especially with the Death of Darwin Dormitorio and Death of Mark Chua here in the Philippines.

Why not sacrifice your life on Compulsory Military Service, when you can just join the military anytime if you wanted to as a Option?

[Ethel mermania]

Might as well say paying taxes is fascism.

You pay money, not your life

You don't comply you go to jail
You don't do mandatory service you go to jail.

[Ethel mermania]

Might as well say paying taxes is fascism.

You say that in jest, but there are people who would unironically tgibk such...

People right here in this thread

[HISPIDA]

Contrary to popular usage, the word "fascism" doesn't simply mean "the government making me do something that I don't want to do." Fascism is characterised by totalitarianism, palingenetic ultranationalism, militarism, social Darwinism, and Third Position economics; whilst compulsory military service is certainly something one would expect to see in a fascist society given those things, its presence is not, in and of itself, a marker of fascism. In fact, some of the most highly democratic and liberal societies in the world have compulsory military service, such as Sweden, Finland and Switzerland.

As for whether national service is justified or not, membership in a community should always be a reciprocal relationship with both benefits for individuals and responsibilities to the community as a whole. The nation is, in general, the largest community a person is likely to be part of that has a significant impact on their life. The responsibilities of national citizenship generally extend no further than paying taxes and respecting the law, but I strongly believe that contributing to the collective defence of the community is a reasonable obligation for the state to place on its citizens. To enjoy the benefits of membership in a community without contributing to the collective interest is parasitic and immoral. The argument for conscription when there is no active threat to the community is less watertight, but I would favour the reintroduction of national service here in the UK. There is a significant benefit to the nation in having a large portion of the general population acquire some basic military training, and that aside, it's a good opportunity for young people to learn new skills and interact with other citizens from different backgrounds whom they might never get the chance to in ordinary life. None of the older people I know who actually experienced national service when it was still in existence here recall it as anything but a highly rewarding experience. There should be some alternative form of community service made available for those who, for practical reasons or due to ethical objections, cannot serve in the military, however.

I thought you better than this. 'palingenetic ultranationalism' is a silly concept. Roger Griffin would make a great comedian really: "Yes Irish republicanism would count by the definition I have set out... but it doesn't... because it just doesn't OK?".

palingenetic ultranationalism is pretty solid, actually. irish republicanism is hardly paligenetic ultranationalism because it isn't inherently palingenetic and it isn't inherently ultranationalist. there are palingenetically ultranationalist irish republicans, but the ideology itself doesn't rely on the national rebirth of the nation's ethnos or race or blah blah blah through the destruction of modern decadence. if irish republicanism fits your definition of palingenetic ultranationalism, then does korean reunification? did german reunification? pan-europeanism?

[Relikai]

Actually, it is fascist, since Compulsory Military Service, especially on College-aged People is totally evil since that would deprive their right to not join the Military, and this would Breed Hazing, Torture and Corruption, especially with the Death of Darwin Dormitorio and Death of Mark Chua here in the Philippines.

Why not sacrifice your life on Compulsory Military Service, when you can just join the military anytime if you wanted to as a Option?

Those things sound like societal thing to me. We have compulsory military service here but most of our people don't engage in hazing which is the sign of a poor form of discipline of the people involved, and speaks of the culture of the society.

[EGEMEN]

Its definitely, without a single doubt "an extreme fascism!!!" We have to clear the distinction and never leave a leeway any longer.

I have never been more clear about a matter more than anything in life. I mostly think as most things to be "relative to a degree, which have varying levels of grey areas" but this one, oh boy, what a shame that we have still been debating about...

The price nations pay by sending innocent, unwilling people to have mandatory duty as military service is utterly insane and downright devilry.

Not everybody has a taste for army nor should have.

Instead of spending billions and trillions of dollars into military budgets, why not all nations dismantle all weapons and spend these kinds of huge sums of monetary budgets into education, health, welfare and technology?(Technology spending, meaning going to the Mars and exploring other planets, science etc.)

So much of human potential is being wasted on "trying to destroy one another." Sad to know that even in current times the Utopic dream i have is not really possible and military still must go on...

[Page]

Contrary to popular usage, the word "fascism" doesn't simply mean "the government making me do something that I don't want to do." Fascism is characterised by totalitarianism, palingenetic ultranationalism, militarism, social Darwinism, and Third Position economics; whilst compulsory military service is certainly something one would expect to see in a fascist society given those things, its presence is not, in and of itself, a marker of fascism. In fact, some of the most highly democratic and liberal societies in the world have compulsory military service, such as Sweden, Finland and Switzerland.

As for whether national service is justified or not, membership in a community should always be a reciprocal relationship with both benefits for individuals and responsibilities to the community as a whole. The nation is, in general, the largest community a person is likely to be part of that has a significant impact on their life. The responsibilities of national citizenship generally extend no further than paying taxes and respecting the law, but I strongly believe that contributing to the collective defence of the community is a reasonable obligation for the state to place on its citizens. To enjoy the benefits of membership in a community without contributing to the collective interest is parasitic and immoral. The argument for conscription when there is no active threat to the community is less watertight, but I would favour the reintroduction of national service here in the UK. There is a significant benefit to the nation in having a large portion of the general population acquire some basic military training, and that aside, it's a good opportunity for young people to learn new skills and interact with other citizens from different backgrounds whom they might never get the chance to in ordinary life. None of the older people I know who actually experienced national service when it was still in existence here recall it as anything but a highly rewarding experience. There should be some alternative form of community service made available for those who, for practical reasons or due to ethical objections, cannot serve in the military, however.

If I got to choose my community, if I could voluntarily associate with who I want and not have outsiders coercively controlling my life, I would agree with the whole reciprocity thing.

But I didn't get to choose where I was born and I didn't get to choose who rules over me. My "social contract" wasn't signed by my own hand, it was signed by my father's sperm on my mother's egg. Which to me invalidates the contract. I do accept that I have a duty to refrain from doing harm, that I didn't choose to be born doesn't mean I have a right to murder and rape, but I flatly refuse to accept having any affirmative duty to the state.

[Ethel mermania]

Contrary to popular usage, the word "fascism" doesn't simply mean "the government making me do something that I don't want to do." Fascism is characterised by totalitarianism, palingenetic ultranationalism, militarism, social Darwinism, and Third Position economics; whilst compulsory military service is certainly something one would expect to see in a fascist society given those things, its presence is not, in and of itself, a marker of fascism. In fact, some of the most highly democratic and liberal societies in the world have compulsory military service, such as Sweden, Finland and Switzerland.

As for whether national service is justified or not, membership in a community should always be a reciprocal relationship with both benefits for individuals and responsibilities to the community as a whole. The nation is, in general, the largest community a person is likely to be part of that has a significant impact on their life. The responsibilities of national citizenship generally extend no further than paying taxes and respecting the law, but I strongly believe that contributing to the collective defence of the community is a reasonable obligation for the state to place on its citizens. To enjoy the benefits of membership in a community without contributing to the collective interest is parasitic and immoral. The argument for conscription when there is no active threat to the community is less watertight, but I would favour the reintroduction of national service here in the UK. There is a significant benefit to the nation in having a large portion of the general population acquire some basic military training, and that aside, it's a good opportunity for young people to learn new skills and interact with other citizens from different backgrounds whom they might never get the chance to in ordinary life. None of the older people I know who actually experienced national service when it was still in existence here recall it as anything but a highly rewarding experience. There should be some alternative form of community service made available for those who, for practical reasons or due to ethical objections, cannot serve in the military, however.

If I got to choose my community, if I could voluntarily associate with who I want and not have outsiders coercively controlling my life, I would agree with the whole reciprocity thing.

But I didn't get to choose where I was born and I didn't get to choose who rules over me. My "social contract" wasn't signed by my own hand, it was signed by my father's sperm on my mother's egg. Which to me invalidates the contract. I do accept that I have a duty to refrain from doing harm, that I didn't choose to be born doesn't mean I have a right to murder and rape, but I flatly refuse to accept having any affirmative duty to the state.

Which is fine, but that doesn't make the state fascist for demanding service from you.

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

I think the forum is full of Turkish nationalists. I call out to all homophobic, religious, border-loving, right-wing fascists. I pride myself on being a coward and trying to stay clean in this dystopia you've created. You think you're really smart, don't you? If someone tries to break into my house, I will defend my loved ones and myself, but this does not justify conscription fascism.

(Image)

1. So you’d use physical force against the home invaders?
Not very pacifist.
2.You described yourself as a Kemalist, you realise Ataturk fought in wars?

1-When someone breaks into my home, I fight for the cause, but for me, military service is a job, not a goal.
2-I'm not a soldier, it's not my job, you can't expect me to do this job.

Its definitely, without a single doubt "an extreme fascism!!!" We have to clear the distinction and never leave a leeway any longer.

I have never been more clear about a matter more than anything in life. I mostly thing as most things to be "relative to a degree, which have varying levels of grey areas" but this one, oh boy, what a shame that we have still been debating about...

The price nations pay by sending innocent, unwilling people to have mandatory duty as military service is utterly insane and downright devilry.

Not everybody has a taste for army nor should have.

Instead of spending billions and trillions of dollars into military budgets, why not all nations dismantle all weapons and spend these kinds of huge sums of monetary budgets into education, health, welfare and technology?(Technology spending, meaning going to the Mars and exploring other planets, science etc.)

So much of human potential is being wasted on "trying to destroy one another." Sad to know that even in current times the Utopic dream i have is not really possible and military still must go on...

EGEMEN, is mandatory here, never mind the fascists who advocate military service. These fascist people are not aware of the anti-democratic level in Turkey, their only concern is to be turkphobic. classic right-wing racist ideas.

[EGEMEN]

Contrary to popular usage, the word "fascism" doesn't simply mean "the government making me do something that I don't want to do." Fascism is characterised by totalitarianism, palingenetic ultranationalism, militarism, social Darwinism, and Third Position economics; whilst compulsory military service is certainly something one would expect to see in a fascist society given those things, its presence is not, in and of itself, a marker of fascism. In fact, some of the most highly democratic and liberal societies in the world have compulsory military service, such as Sweden, Finland and Switzerland.

As for whether national service is justified or not, membership in a community should always be a reciprocal relationship with both benefits for individuals and responsibilities to the community as a whole. The nation is, in general, the largest community a person is likely to be part of that has a significant impact on their life. The responsibilities of national citizenship generally extend no further than paying taxes and respecting the law, but I strongly believe that contributing to the collective defence of the community is a reasonable obligation for the state to place on its citizens. To enjoy the benefits of membership in a community without contributing to the collective interest is parasitic and immoral. The argument for conscription when there is no active threat to the community is less watertight, but I would favour the reintroduction of national service here in the UK. There is a significant benefit to the nation in having a large portion of the general population acquire some basic military training, and that aside, it's a good opportunity for young people to learn new skills and interact with other citizens from different backgrounds whom they might never get the chance to in ordinary life. None of the older people I know who actually experienced national service when it was still in existence here recall it as anything but a highly rewarding experience. There should be some alternative form of community service made available for those who, for practical reasons or due to ethical objections, cannot serve in the military, however.

If I got to choose my community, if I could voluntarily associate with who I want and not have outsiders coercively controlling my life, I would agree with the whole reciprocity thing.

But I didn't get to choose where I was born and I didn't get to choose who rules over me. My "social contract" wasn't signed by my own hand, it was signed by my father's sperm on my mother's egg. Which to me invalidates the contract. I do accept that I have a duty to refrain from doing harm, that I didn't choose to be born doesn't mean I have a right to murder and rape, but I flatly refuse to accept having any affirmative duty to the state.

Very well put it.

Since it's a complete phenomenon that we just have been alive and happen to be living in this current day and age doesn't mean that we have to be forced and mandated in some shape or form. In the past, people had to do these kinds of acts, because most societies, even the most democratic and developed ones had lower cognitively developed consciousness worldwide and the world was much more dangerous compared to nowadays. We needed a period of time when people had to have nationalist views and ideas to be safe and provide stability and order in their lives which was immensively lacking in a dog-eat-dog world.

But now, let's zoom back and take a look at our root problems since the beginning of mankind. Who was causing it? What was the root issue?

It was humans! In other words, us!

All societal, cultural, economical, and spiritual problems stem from again, us. If there were no other nation than one government, then there would be no terror and no need for weaponization.

I mean, if aliens were deciding to conquer the world today, wouldn't we all come together and make one united army? We would all be together on this one, otherwise, our species would go extinct!

By the same token, the army is extremely disciplined, rigid and hierarchy based.

People have different minds, ideas, personalities, characters, inclinations, skills and talents.

So those who are not into the military are people who are mostly creative, intuitive, lack discipline and are liberal. So, people who don't like forced and mandatory discipline required things tend to have other skills, talents and abilities which military-minded people lack.

Surely we need people who will have the discipline to protect our nations and also people who are not willing to have mandatory military service. The latter can benefit society in other enormous ways. Such as arts, education, research, exploration, business, intellectual pursuits and countless other areas of expertise.

[Fan-T Pashtunistan]

1-When someone breaks into my home, I fight for the cause, but for me, military service is a job, not a goal.

Ok, but you realise the reason you're safe in your home is due to the work of the Armed Forces and police?
People refuse to invade Turkiye because it has conscription and is in NATO.

2-I'm not a soldier, it's not my job, you can't expect me to do this job.

I thought conscripts weren't actually sent to war in Turkiye, rather they're a back-up for if there is a shortage of professional soldiers, am I wrong?
And it's only temporarily, when your service finishes you can then get back into whatever work you choose.
But I agree, they should have alternative civilian service, such as working to rescue people from burning buildings as a choice people can do instead.