Ballot Selfies

[Earth Orbit]

The way India does it is great. IIRC ballot selfies are punishable by a fine and (I think?) revocation of your vote.

Given the increasing polarization of politics in the US - and the current and future violence that entails (see: Antifa) - I'd consider it exceedingly unwise to allow people to cement their vote in public like that. The absolute last thing we need right now is someone compiling a hit list using ballot selfies on Instagram, as unlikely as that may be.

[Luziyca]

Honestly, they shouldn't be allowed: why would you take a selfie with your ballot? If you want to show that you voted with a selfie, take a selfie of you dropping the ballot into that ballot box, as opposed to just showing the ballot in and of itself.

[Mushet]

How would you enforce it? Seems like the people that would be getting their vote bought can just send the picture instead of posting it on Facebook. What we're gonna confiscate electronic devices?

In my state cameras, phones, and other electronic devices are not allowed to be within 50ft of a polling place. You will be fined and the device will be confiscated

Pain in the ass, technically I can get fined for walking home in front of the place even if I have no intention of voting at that time.

[Kubra]

Just set up some display for folks to pose at with an "I voted" button
bam, problem solved.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

How would you enforce it? Seems like the people that would be getting their vote bought can just send the picture instead of posting it on Facebook. What we're gonna confiscate electronic devices?

In my state cameras, phones, and other electronic devices are not allowed to be within 50ft of a polling place. You will be fined and the device will be confiscated

Good thing my state isn’t as irrational when it comes to devices, I’ve voted without the need of officials taking my device since most of us here don’t take pics of anything in the voting booth. If someone takes my phone then they’ll get a criminal theft charge to their name.

[New Bremerton]

Ballot selfies should be legal so I can scrawl a pee-pee over the entire page accompanied by the words FUCK YOU ALL and share it on FB.

EDIT: I mean a photo of just the ballot, not the ballot and myself.

[Risottia]

I believe that secrecy of one's vote is a right, not an obligation

The secrecy of the vote is meant to preserve a collective right, not a personal one. It is a right of the whole community of electors to have fraud ruled out from elections, so to have free and fair elections.
If you want to go around and tell what you voted for, you're free to do so. Having a material proof of your vote means you could show it to someone else who controls your vote. So, that's a no.

[Risottia]

The way India does it is great. IIRC ballot selfies are punishable by a fine and (I think?) revocation of your vote.

In Italy, merely entering the voting booth with any image-capturing device will earn the elector a fine ranging between 300 and 1000 € AND three to six months in jail. Plus, annullation of the vote and expulsion from the current election. Electors are supposed to hand over their image-capturing devices to the officials who will guard them until the ballot has been cast.
Personally, in my career as electoral office president, I've had two electors arrested (yep, the office president gets to issue orders to the police, including arrest orders) for taking their phones into the booth and using them while voting... Stupid fuckers.

[Radiatia]

Funnily enough I just found a photo on my phone that I took in the voting booth in 2017. It wasn't a selfie (I don't do selfies) but it was of my ballot paper - and I recall the reason I took the picture in the first place was BECAUSE it was illegal to do so and at the time it was me committing a tiny act of civil disobedience.

It's not something I have particularly passionate views on, but in general I'm one of those people who will always do the opposite of what people tell me not to do because my personality is just like that.

[Telconi]

I'd agree with that. Personally, though, I haven't got a problem with people selling their vote. It is, after all, theirs, and they ought be able to do what they wish with it.

The problem with vote selling is that people will sacrifice a long term greater gain (their interests being upheld in legislation and administration) for the short term smaller gain of some quick cash. If Michael Bloomberg offered me $5000 to vote for him I might be tempted to vote for him but I would instead vote for Bernie Sanders for free, knowing that if I am living in America and get seriously sick or injured, I'll save far more than that in health care costs when Sanders implements single-payer.

But for someone who is desperate to keep their lights on, feed their kids, vote buying is coercive. They sacrifice their long term interests for money they need right away.

If vote buying were allowed, politicians would do even less to improve material conditions than they do now.

I'd vote for Bloomberg for five Gs.

[The Sherpa Empire]

The problem with vote selling is that people will sacrifice a long term greater gain (their interests being upheld in legislation and administration) for the short term smaller gain of some quick cash. If Michael Bloomberg offered me $5000 to vote for him I might be tempted to vote for him but I would instead vote for Bernie Sanders for free, knowing that if I am living in America and get seriously sick or injured, I'll save far more than that in health care costs when Sanders implements single-payer.

But for someone who is desperate to keep their lights on, feed their kids, vote buying is coercive. They sacrifice their long term interests for money they need right away.

If vote buying were allowed, politicians would do even less to improve material conditions than they do now.

I'd vote for Bloomberg for five Gs.

Same, but I don't really think that should be legalized.

[Page]

My problem with the idea that ballot selfies for the sake of political speech should be banned because they could hypothetically be done for vote buying is that a law should not prohibit one action because of the potential for another action. Don't ban alcohol just because some people drive drunk. But the metaphor doesn't even work because drunk driving is a thing that thousands of people do every day, while vote buying in America is non-existent.

[Telconi]

I'd vote for Bloomberg for five Gs.

Same, but I don't really think that should be legalized.

Why not? We're permitted to sell it profit from every other right we have. I can be a paid spokesperson, for example.

[Telconi]

My problem with the idea that ballot selfies for the sake of political speech should be banned because they could hypothetically be done for vote buying is that a law should not prohibit one action because of the potential for another action. Don't ban alcohol just because some people drive drunk. But the metaphor doesn't even work because drunk driving is a thing that thousands of people do every day, while vote buying in America is non-existent.

You'd be hard pressed to support the assertion that vote buying is non-existant.

[Page]

My problem with the idea that ballot selfies for the sake of political speech should be banned because they could hypothetically be done for vote buying is that a law should not prohibit one action because of the potential for another action. Don't ban alcohol just because some people drive drunk. But the metaphor doesn't even work because drunk driving is a thing that thousands of people do every day, while vote buying in America is non-existent.

You'd be hard pressed to support the assertion that vote buying is non-existant.

Voter fraud in America is basically non-existent, so I don't expect vote buying in an election would be more than you could count on one hand either.

[Telconi]

You'd be hard pressed to support the assertion that vote buying is non-existant.

Voter fraud in America is basically non-existent, so I don't expect vote buying in an election would be more than you could count on one hand either.

"I don't expect X" and "There is no X" are two very different things.

Having said that I don't see anything wrong with ballot selfies because I don't see anything wrong with vote buying.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

because I don't see anything wrong with vote buying.

I’m sure you don’t.

[Telconi]

because I don't see anything wrong with vote buying.

I’m sure you don’t.

Would that be because I just stated it and you possess basic literacy skills?

[Page]

Voter fraud in America is basically non-existent, so I don't expect vote buying in an election would be more than you could count on one hand either.

"I don't expect X" and "There is no X" are two very different things.

Having said that I don't see anything wrong with ballot selfies because I don't see anything wrong with vote buying.

Every election, there are at most 5 people in the entire country who vote fraudulently. Take 10 states like California, Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Nevada, New Mexico, Colorado, Utah, Texas, and Oklahoma and in one of those ten states you might find a single person who commits voter fraud.

Is there any reason to suspect that vote buying occurs at a greater rate?

[Telconi]

"I don't expect X" and "There is no X" are two very different things.

Having said that I don't see anything wrong with ballot selfies because I don't see anything wrong with vote buying.

Every election, there are at most 5 people in the entire country who vote fraudulently. Take 10 states like California, Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Nevada, New Mexico, Colorado, Utah, Texas, and Oklahoma and in one of those ten states you might find a single person who commits voter fraud.

Is there any reason to suspect that vote buying occurs at a greater rate?

Fraudulent voting is, at the very least, a subject in which concise information is woefully lacking.

The simple fact of the matter is that we haven't the slightest clue how many people actually vote fraudulently.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

I’m sure you don’t.

Would that be because I just stated it and you possess basic literacy skills?

More like I already suspected you supported things like buying votes, given your anti-American leanings.

[Madrinet]

Selfies as a whole should be illegal.

Ok boomer

I'd agree with that. Personally, though, I haven't got a problem with people selling their vote. It is, after all, theirs, and they ought be able to do what they wish with it.

The problem with vote selling is that people will sacrifice a long term greater gain (their interests being upheld in legislation and administration) for the short term smaller gain of some quick cash. If Michael Bloomberg offered me $5000 to vote for him I might be tempted to vote for him but I would instead vote for Bernie Sanders for free, knowing that if I am living in America and get seriously sick or injured, I'll save far more than that in health care costs when Sanders implements single-payer.

But for someone who is desperate to keep their lights on, feed their kids, vote buying is coercive. They sacrifice their long term interests for money they need right away.

If vote buying were allowed, politicians would do even less to improve material conditions than they do now.

I mean, people vote against their interests all the time. At least with vote buying they get something tangible.

It's not for us to decide why someone votes, or how they vote, anyway.

[Drongonia]

Well, here in New Zealand it's illegal to post anything about who you voted for or who you're supporting on social media as it can get you fined. In 2014, three prominent sports stars in NZ were referred to the cops on election day (not prosecuted in the end, however) because they posted about supporting the centre-right National Party. No, not because the party sucks and is a husk of its once-conservative former self, but because it's illegal to tweet about how you're looking forward to the big boost in sports funding.

According to the Electoral Commission, It's a criminal offence to do anything that can influence voters:
- on election day
- in an advance voting place
- within 10 metres of an advance voting place

"This includes public statements, processions, and speeches, as well as displaying candidate and party names, emblems, slogans or logos. Sections 197 and 197A of the Electoral Act have the full lists of restricted activities. Remove or cover all your election advertising that’s visible from a public place before election day. Returning Officers can remove or cover advertising that breaches the rules."

There are specific exemptions to the Act in terms of stuff like wearing party lapels (you can have ONE) but party merch is specifically prohibited. Let's be honest though, political party merch is cringe anyway.

[Telconi]

Would that be because I just stated it and you possess basic literacy skills?

More like I already suspected you supported things like buying votes, given your anti-American leanings.

I forgot that freedom is anti-American. Thank you for reminding me, Mr. Supreme Arbiter of American-ness.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

More like I already suspected you supported things like buying votes, given your anti-American leanings.

I forgot that freedom is anti-American. Thank you for reminding me, Mr. Supreme Arbiter of American-ness.

uh huh.