Christian Discussion Thread XI: Anicetus’ Revenge

[Punished UMN]

That seems like a really weird prediction when non-Christians still exist.

It's doubly bizarre because even after 2,000 years the majority of humanity is still not Christian, and paganism is seeing a massive resurgence and barring a Christian theocracy I don't see that changing in the west.

I disagree that it's a massive resurgence. Many fringe movements experience some form of massive growth, but that doesn't mean they have mainstream appeal, and it's possible, if not likely, that as the number of potential converts from people with fringe viewpoints (and I don't mean fringe as an insult) declines, the room for growth of neopaganism will decline as well.

[Nakena]

QAnon is one of the most rapidly growing cults those days, but it wont last very long.

[Washington Resistance Army]

It's doubly bizarre because even after 2,000 years the majority of humanity is still not Christian, and paganism is seeing a massive resurgence and barring a Christian theocracy I don't see that changing in the west.

I disagree that it's a massive resurgence. Many fringe movements experience some form of massive growth, but that doesn't mean they have mainstream appeal, and it's possible, if not likely, that as the number of potential converts from people with fringe viewpoints (and I don't mean fringe as an insult) declines, the room for growth of neopaganism will decline as well.

I'd argue Heathenry has pretty good mainstream appeal nowadays tbh, it's not very hard to find groups across the country and more and more temples are popping up. It's certainly not fringe anymore.

[Kowani]

QAnon is one of the most rapidly growing cults those days, but it wont last very long.

Qanon, I think, is limited in a way most traditional religions aren’t
It makes testable, definitive claims about things that don’t come true

You and I’ve seen a lot of the mental gymnastics people jump through to maintain it, but the numbers are still slipping and the excuses get weaker

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Neopagans are still fringe. They've always been fringe. They'll always be fringe. Their main appeal is metropolitan hipsters hoping to reject conformity, racist ultranationalists who don't like the idea of God being a Jew, and the odd edgelord who thinks being pagan is "cool" because they listen to too much folk metal.

[Sundiata]

QAnon is one of the most rapidly growing cults those days, but it wont last very long.

A lot of people don't see each other as neighbors but as adversaries.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Neopagans are still fringe. They've always been fringe. They'll always be fringe. Their main appeal is metropolitan hipsters hoping to reject conformity, racist ultranationalists who don't like the idea of God being a Jew, and the odd edgelord who thinks being pagan is "cool" because they listen to too much folk metal.

I don't think you have much experience with pagans lol

[Nakena]

QAnon is one of the most rapidly growing cults those days, but it wont last very long.

Qanon, I think, is limited in a way most traditional religions aren’t
It makes testable, definitive claims about things that don’t come true

You and I’ve seen a lot of the mental gymnastics people jump through to maintain it, but the numbers are still slipping and the excuses get weaker

In US history there have been a lot of cults that operated the same way, specifically various christian cults that predicted the apocalypse. And assorted eschatological undercurrents still run strong in american culture and narratives. QAnon is deeply related to that.

[Kowani]

Qanon, I think, is limited in a way most traditional religions aren’t
It makes testable, definitive claims about things that don’t come true

You and I’ve seen a lot of the mental gymnastics people jump through to maintain it, but the numbers are still slipping and the excuses get weaker

In US history there have been a lot of cults that operated the same way, specifically various christian cults that predicted the apocalypse. And assorted eschatological undercurrents still run strong in american culture and narratives. QAnon is deeply related to that.

That’s definitely true, yeah

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Neopagans are still fringe. They've always been fringe. They'll always be fringe. Their main appeal is metropolitan hipsters hoping to reject conformity, racist ultranationalists who don't like the idea of God being a Jew, and the odd edgelord who thinks being pagan is "cool" because they listen to too much folk metal.

I don't think you have much experience with pagans lol

No, I don't, because most pagans died out centuries ago.

Neopagans aren't pagans. They're people pretending to be pagan for a variety of absurd reasons. But at the end of the day, they're still just randos trying to breath life into dead religions.

[Nakena]

In US history there have been a lot of cults that operated the same way, specifically various christian cults that predicted the apocalypse. And assorted eschatological undercurrents still run strong in american culture and narratives. QAnon is deeply related to that.

That’s definitely true, yeah

I would say cultural christianity or cultural paganism aren't just religions but also mindset and memeplexes partially derivated from religious mythology and the likes. So even atheists who talk about "god" may, by saying so, still be within the culturally christian spectrum. They merely reject the religion, they still consider to be the default one. When they discuss deities and gods, they usually do so with the default assumption it's some sort of christian derivated one. And when they get religious, they usually revert back to that. There have been a few cases on this forum and examples.

Which is usually christianity or another people of the book religion. (you usually see judaism or islam mentioned) And cultural christianity is still a major current in the western world.

Paganism by contrast, is a far more obscure undercurrent.

[Kowani]

That’s definitely true, yeah

I would say cultural christianity or cultural paganism aren't just religions but also mindset and memeplexes partially derivated from religious mythology and the likes. So even atheists who talk about "god" may, by saying so, still be within the culturally christian spectrum. They merely reject the religion, they still consider to be the default one. When they discuss deities and gods, they usually do so with the default assumption it's some sort of christian derivated one. And when they get religious, they usually revert back to that. There have been a few cases on this forum and examples.

Which is usually christianity or another people of the book religion. (you usually see judaism or islam mentioned) And cultural christianity is still a major current in the western world.

Paganism by contrast, is a far more obscure undercurrent.

Nak, we’ve talked about this

[Washington Resistance Army]

I don't think you have much experience with pagans lol

No, I don't

Then you shouldn't speak in ignorance. Especially when there's been several members of this very forum who disprove your perceptions. It's about as ridiculous as me saying the main appeal of the RCC is people who hate women and pedophiles.

QAnon is one of the most rapidly growing cults those days, but it wont last very long.

A lot of people don't see each other as neighbors but as adversaries.

Sadly I don't see much way to change that currently. At least our European compatriots are doing better in that regard. They have problems but they aren't trying to pull off coups and threatening civil wars against each other.

I was really happy to see the Pope speak out against the coup attempt though. Out of curiosity does anyone know if any other Christian leaders did?

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

No, I don't

Then you shouldn't speak in ignorance. Especially when there's been several members of this very forum who disprove your perceptions. It's about as ridiculous as me saying the main appeal of the RCC is people who hate women and pedophiles.

Six people do not a religion make.

[Nakena]

Then you shouldn't speak in ignorance. Especially when there's been several members of this very forum who disprove your perceptions. It's about as ridiculous as me saying the main appeal of the RCC is people who hate women and pedophiles.

Six people do not a religion make.

Many major religions started at some point as small cult or tribal faith etc.

[Suriyanakhon]

That’s definitely true, yeah

I would say cultural christianity or cultural paganism aren't just religions but also mindset and memeplexes partially derivated from religious mythology and the likes. So even atheists who talk about "god" may, by saying so, still be within the culturally christian spectrum. They merely reject the religion, they still consider to be the default one. When they discuss deities and gods, they usually do so with the default assumption it's some sort of christian derivated one. And when they get religious, they usually revert back to that. There have been a few cases on this forum and examples.

Which is usually christianity or another people of the book religion. (you usually see judaism or islam mentioned) And cultural christianity is still a major current in the western world.

Paganism by contrast, is a far more obscure undercurrent.

Tbh this is something that I noticed a lot and a reason why I picked a culturally Thai place of worship. Because Western converts (who are usually ex-Christians) largely tend to have chips on their shoulders about concepts like God which can be really annoying. Even though they hate it, it ironically influences their beliefs more than they would admit.

[Lost Memories]

Glad to see my posts sometimes manage to be thought provoking.
And no, I'm not going to reply to single sentences taken out of context, from a post which was entirely rhetorical.


But to sum it up in a more poetic way.

Even if the world was to go back into darkness, we christians won't be walking in that darkness.
Because God is our light.

[Luminesa]

No, I don't

Then you shouldn't speak in ignorance. Especially when there's been several members of this very forum who disprove your perceptions. It's about as ridiculous as me saying the main appeal of the RCC is people who hate women and pedophiles.

A lot of people don't see each other as neighbors but as adversaries.

Sadly I don't see much way to change that currently. At least our European compatriots are doing better in that regard. They have problems but they aren't trying to pull off coups and threatening civil wars against each other.

I was really happy to see the Pope speak out against the coup attempt though. Out of curiosity does anyone know if any other Christian leaders did?

Bishop Robert Barron also spoke against it.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Then you shouldn't speak in ignorance. Especially when there's been several members of this very forum who disprove your perceptions. It's about as ridiculous as me saying the main appeal of the RCC is people who hate women and pedophiles.

Six people do not a religion make.

The main group I affiliate with for religion has organized congregations in 11 states and online communities well in excess of 10,000 members.

Also, given the history of Christianity this statement is a bit ironic.

[Suriyanakhon]

Then you shouldn't speak in ignorance. Especially when there's been several members of this very forum who disprove your perceptions. It's about as ridiculous as me saying the main appeal of the RCC is people who hate women and pedophiles.

Six people do not a religion make.

There are way more neopagans than that, but even if there weren't, so long as they share the components that make a religion, they would be. No religious scholar that I'm aware of disqualifies a belief system because it doesn't meet a certain quota of members for bragging rights.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Six people do not a religion make.

Many major religions started at some point as small cult or tribal faith etc.

I was referring specifically to the handful of neopagans on NS that WRA was trying to use as evidence, actually.

If we were to use NS membership to project national or even international demographics then by all accounts over 60% of the world would be fucking communist. And that's just assuming that people are who they say they are, because let's be honest: people lie on the internet. Just because you say you're a neopagan doesn't mean you are. For all we know you're just a really good bullshitter/LARPer.

Six people do not a religion make.

The main group I affiliate with for religion has organized congregations in 11 states and online communities well in excess of 10,000 members.

Also, given the history of Christianity this statement is a bit ironic.

Aren't you an atheist?

[Senkaku]

Also, given the history of Christianity this statement is a bit ironic.

I mean, Christianity is only considered a religion because it outgrew that phase when it was a weird, semi-underground, mysterious cult with fairly few adherents, so I think the statement is still spot on. If we give it a few hundred years and the neopagans are suddenly everywhere, that's a different conversation.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Six people do not a religion make.

There are way more neopagans than that, but even if there weren't, so long as they share the components that make a religion, they would be. No religious scholar that I'm aware of disqualifies a belief system because it doesn't meet a certain quota of members for bragging rights.

As I said: I was referring specifically to his claim that NS users (or what they claim to be) inherently prove my argument wrong, which is absurd. I'm aware of the fact that there are millions of neopagans in the world. I'm not nearly as ignorant as WRA's ego would have him believe I am.

[Nakena]

Many major religions started at some point as small cult or tribal faith etc.

I was referring specifically to the handful of neopagans on NS that WRA was trying to use as evidence, actually.

If we were to use NS membership to project national or even international demographics then by all accounts over 60% of the world would be fucking communist. And that's just assuming that people are who they say they are, because let's be honest: people lie on the internet. Just because you say you're a neopagan doesn't mean you are. For all we know you're just a really good bullshitter/LARPer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedi_census_phenomenon

[Washington Resistance Army]

Then you shouldn't speak in ignorance. Especially when there's been several members of this very forum who disprove your perceptions. It's about as ridiculous as me saying the main appeal of the RCC is people who hate women and pedophiles.



Sadly I don't see much way to change that currently. At least our European compatriots are doing better in that regard. They have problems but they aren't trying to pull off coups and threatening civil wars against each other.

I was really happy to see the Pope speak out against the coup attempt though. Out of curiosity does anyone know if any other Christian leaders did?

Bishop Robert Barron also spoke against it.

That's great to hear. I wonder if any evangelical leaders did, that'd be a big shocker if so.

Aren't you an atheist?

Several years ago I was, religious experience brought me into polytheism.