Christian Discussion Thread XI: Anicetus’ Revenge

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Diving helmets.

No, no, no...

There was a little-known 6th-century aristocratic Byzantine fashion for dressing heads with gilded soap bubbles. Justin II (r. 565-574) started to have fits of insanity in 572, though he had moments of lucidity. On his abdication he famously declared (as recorded by the historian Theophylact Simocatta):

You behold the ensigns of supreme power. You are about to receive them, not from my hand, but from the hand of God. Honour them, and from them you will derive honour. Respect the empress your mother: you are now her son; before, you were her servant. Delight not in blood; abstain from revenge; avoid those actions by which I have incurred the public hatred such as wearing these silly gilded soap bubbles on our heads; and consult the experience, rather than the example, of your predecessor. As a man, I have sinned; as a sinner, even in this life, I have been severely punished: but these servants (and he pointed to his ministers), who have abused my confidence, and inflamed my passions, will appear with me before the tribunal of Christ. I have been dazzled by the splendor of the diadem: be thou wise and modest; remember what you have been, remember what you are. You see around us your slaves, and your children: with the authority, assume the tenderness, of a parent. Love your people like yourself; cultivate the affections, maintain the discipline, of the army; protect the fortunes of the rich, relieve the necessities of the poor

Those soap bubbles were introduced by Justin in 573, and even though by this point he was manifestly insane, such was the emperor's influence at court that Byzantine courtiers had to follow the fashion, and court artists started to introduce them in paintings - even into religious iconography. They were subsequently explained away as 'halos', and continued to feature in Christian art across the Mediterranean, but this was simply retrospective cover for what was little more than desperate scrambling to follow the whims of a mad emperor who had to be towed around the Great Palace sitting on a throne in a little cart while listening to organ music - and wearing a gilded soap bubble on his head.

...I can't tell if this is real or satire.

[Suriyanakhon]

Diving helmets.

No, no, no...

There was a little-known 6th-century aristocratic Byzantine fashion for dressing heads with gilded soap bubbles. Justin II (r. 565-574) started to have fits of insanity in 572, though he had moments of lucidity. On his abdication he famously declared (as recorded by the historian Theophylact Simocatta):

You behold the ensigns of supreme power. You are about to receive them, not from my hand, but from the hand of God. Honour them, and from them you will derive honour. Respect the empress your mother: you are now her son; before, you were her servant. Delight not in blood; abstain from revenge; avoid those actions by which I have incurred the public hatred such as wearing these silly gilded soap bubbles on our heads; and consult the experience, rather than the example, of your predecessor. As a man, I have sinned; as a sinner, even in this life, I have been severely punished: but these servants (and he pointed to his ministers), who have abused my confidence, and inflamed my passions, will appear with me before the tribunal of Christ. I have been dazzled by the splendor of the diadem: be thou wise and modest; remember what you have been, remember what you are. You see around us your slaves, and your children: with the authority, assume the tenderness, of a parent. Love your people like yourself; cultivate the affections, maintain the discipline, of the army; protect the fortunes of the rich, relieve the necessities of the poor

Those soap bubbles were introduced by Justin in 573, and even though by this point he was manifestly insane, such was the emperor's influence at court that Byzantine courtiers had to follow the fashion, and court artists started to introduce them in paintings - even into religious iconography. They were subsequently explained away as 'halos', and continued to feature in Christian art across the Mediterranean, but this was simply retrospective cover for what was little more than desperate scrambling to follow the whims of a mad emperor who had to be towed around the Great Palace sitting on a throne in a little cart while listening to organ music - and wearing a gilded soap bubble on his head.

I hope that if civilization collapses, this post is somehow found and becomes the dominant narrative on ancient pre-cataclysm art.

[The New California Republic]

Diving helmets.

No, no, no...

There was a little-known 6th-century aristocratic Byzantine fashion for dressing heads with gilded soap bubbles. Justin II (r. 565-574) started to have fits of insanity in 572, though he had moments of lucidity. On his abdication he famously declared (as recorded by the historian Theophylact Simocatta):

You behold the ensigns of supreme power. You are about to receive them, not from my hand, but from the hand of God. Honour them, and from them you will derive honour. Respect the empress your mother: you are now her son; before, you were her servant. Delight not in blood; abstain from revenge; avoid those actions by which I have incurred the public hatred such as wearing these silly gilded soap bubbles on our heads; and consult the experience, rather than the example, of your predecessor. As a man, I have sinned; as a sinner, even in this life, I have been severely punished: but these servants (and he pointed to his ministers), who have abused my confidence, and inflamed my passions, will appear with me before the tribunal of Christ. I have been dazzled by the splendor of the diadem: be thou wise and modest; remember what you have been, remember what you are. You see around us your slaves, and your children: with the authority, assume the tenderness, of a parent. Love your people like yourself; cultivate the affections, maintain the discipline, of the army; protect the fortunes of the rich, relieve the necessities of the poor

Those soap bubbles were introduced by Justin in 573, and even though by this point he was manifestly insane, such was the emperor's influence at court that Byzantine courtiers had to follow the fashion, and court artists started to introduce them in paintings - even into religious iconography. They were subsequently explained away as 'halos', and continued to feature in Christian art across the Mediterranean, but this was simply retrospective cover for what was little more than desperate scrambling to follow the whims of a mad emperor who had to be towed around the Great Palace sitting on a throne in a little cart while listening to organ music - and wearing a gilded soap bubble on his head.

...

...as long as you don't plant tea-stained parchments such as this in ancient ruins during digs.

[Suriyanakhon]

No, no, no...

There was a little-known 6th-century aristocratic Byzantine fashion for dressing heads with gilded soap bubbles. Justin II (r. 565-574) started to have fits of insanity in 572, though he had moments of lucidity. On his abdication he famously declared (as recorded by the historian Theophylact Simocatta):



Those soap bubbles were introduced by Justin in 573, and even though by this point he was manifestly insane, such was the emperor's influence at court that Byzantine courtiers had to follow the fashion, and court artists started to introduce them in paintings - even into religious iconography. They were subsequently explained away as 'halos', and continued to feature in Christian art across the Mediterranean, but this was simply retrospective cover for what was little more than desperate scrambling to follow the whims of a mad emperor who had to be towed around the Great Palace sitting on a throne in a little cart while listening to organ music - and wearing a gilded soap bubble on his head.

...

...as long as you don't plant tea-stained parchments such as this in ancient ruins during digs.

When you're the pope in 3054 AD and the schism between the RCC and Orthodox Church is finally mended, but all of a sudden a suspicious new document is discovered which starts the whole mess all over again.

[Kowani]

Diving helmets.

No, no, no...

There was a little-known 6th-century aristocratic Byzantine fashion for dressing heads with gilded soap bubbles. Justin II (r. 565-574) started to have fits of insanity in 572, though he had moments of lucidity. On his abdication he famously declared (as recorded by the historian Theophylact Simocatta):

You behold the ensigns of supreme power. You are about to receive them, not from my hand, but from the hand of God. Honour them, and from them you will derive honour. Respect the empress your mother: you are now her son; before, you were her servant. Delight not in blood; abstain from revenge; avoid those actions by which I have incurred the public hatred such as wearing these silly gilded soap bubbles on our heads; and consult the experience, rather than the example, of your predecessor. As a man, I have sinned; as a sinner, even in this life, I have been severely punished: but these servants (and he pointed to his ministers), who have abused my confidence, and inflamed my passions, will appear with me before the tribunal of Christ. I have been dazzled by the splendor of the diadem: be thou wise and modest; remember what you have been, remember what you are. You see around us your slaves, and your children: with the authority, assume the tenderness, of a parent. Love your people like yourself; cultivate the affections, maintain the discipline, of the army; protect the fortunes of the rich, relieve the necessities of the poor

Those soap bubbles were introduced by Justin in 573, and even though by this point he was manifestly insane, such was the emperor's influence at court that Byzantine courtiers had to follow the fashion, and court artists started to introduce them in paintings - even into religious iconography. They were subsequently explained away as 'halos', and continued to feature in Christian art across the Mediterranean, but this was simply retrospective cover for what was little more than desperate scrambling to follow the whims of a mad emperor who had to be towed around the Great Palace sitting on a throne in a little cart while listening to organ music - and wearing a gilded soap bubble on his head.

...this is brilliant

(and thanks, salus)

[Sundiata]

What do you guys know about Purgatory? I am genuinely concerned. I don't want to think about the obstacles that it's going to take to overcome that if I even get the chance.

[Tarsonis]

What do you guys know about Purgatory? I am genuinely concerned. I don't want to think about the obstacles that it's going to take to get out of that state.

Purgatory, as the name implies, the process of cleansing the soul undergoes as it enters heaven. Theres not really so much obstacles to overcome as there is just time to be endured. Purgatory isn't something you can fail.

[Sundiata]

What do you guys know about Purgatory? I am genuinely concerned. I don't want to think about the obstacles that it's going to take to get out of that state.

Purgatory, as the name implies, the process of cleansing the soul undergoes as it enters heaven. Theres not really so much obstacles to overcome as there is just time to be endured. Purgatory isn't something you can fail.

Literally, thank God.

[The Archregimancy]

No, no, no...

There was a little-known 6th-century aristocratic Byzantine fashion for dressing heads with gilded soap bubbles. Justin II (r. 565-574) started to have fits of insanity in 572, though he had moments of lucidity. On his abdication he famously declared (as recorded by the historian Theophylact Simocatta):



Those soap bubbles were introduced by Justin in 573, and even though by this point he was manifestly insane, such was the emperor's influence at court that Byzantine courtiers had to follow the fashion, and court artists started to introduce them in paintings - even into religious iconography. They were subsequently explained away as 'halos', and continued to feature in Christian art across the Mediterranean, but this was simply retrospective cover for what was little more than desperate scrambling to follow the whims of a mad emperor who had to be towed around the Great Palace sitting on a throne in a little cart while listening to organ music - and wearing a gilded soap bubble on his head.

...I can't tell if this is real or satire.

Excellent....

My work is done here.

[The Blaatschapen]

What do you guys know about Purgatory? I am genuinely concerned. I don't want to think about the obstacles that it's going to take to get out of that state.

Purgatory, as the name implies, the process of cleansing the soul undergoes as it enters heaven. Theres not really so much obstacles to overcome as there is just time to be endured. Purgatory isn't something you can fail.

Just time to be endured.

It's like waiting in line at the DMV.

[Sundiata]

Purgatory, as the name implies, the process of cleansing the soul undergoes as it enters heaven. Theres not really so much obstacles to overcome as there is just time to be endured. Purgatory isn't something you can fail.

Just time to be endured.

It's like waiting in line at the DMV.

The DMV in Midtown Manhattan actually operates very quickly.

[Lost Memories]

What do you guys know about Purgatory? I am genuinely concerned. I don't want to think about the obstacles that it's going to take to overcome that if I even get the chance.

Aside what Tarsonis explained, I think it's more proper to aim for heaven, rather than to aim for purgatory (just not-hell).

[Rosmana]

What do you guys know about Purgatory? I am genuinely concerned. I don't want to think about the obstacles that it's going to take to overcome that if I even get the chance.

Aside what Tarsonis explained, I think it's more proper to aim for heaven, rather than to aim for purgatory (just not-hell).

Well, you can always try, just see it as a way to free yourself, rather than a threat.

[Lost Memories]

Well, you can always try, just see it as a way to free yourself, rather than a threat.

My reasoning was rather that, by not choosing heaven and settling for purgatory, that could count as something like lazyness, which could be damning in itself. So someone aiming for just purgatory during life, could actually fall off by neglect so much, and go so low, to end in hell.

While it's a given, not everyone who aim for heaven are going to be perfect once dead, and enter heaven right away, so purgatory.
Because of the fallibility and weakness of the human nature, falling short can always happen.

While instead, who aims for just purgatory, is already setting a lower bar for themselves.
Purgatory after all is an idea which relies on the mercy of God, it's not something to actually aim for. Like one shouldn't sin with the idea that God is merciful anyway. I'm not sure where, but there should be a part in theology which deals with the ones who abuse the mercy of God.
There is also the idea that the time spent in purgatory is proportional to the purification needed to enter heaven, so just aiming for purgatory could lead to more purification needed.

Which sort of connects to the worry of Sundiata, if you are worried about the struggle in purgatory, aim the highest possible, that is heaven.
By aiming for heaven, either one gets there directly, or will have little to get purified from.

[Rosmana]

Well, you can always try, just see it as a way to free yourself, rather than a threat.

My reasoning was rather that, by not choosing heaven and settling for purgatory, that could count as something like lazyness, which could be damning in itself. So someone aiming for just purgatory during life, could actually fall off by neglect so much, and go so low, to end in hell.

While it's a given, not everyone who aim for heaven are going to be perfect once dead, and enter heaven right away, so purgatory.
Because of the fallibility and weakness of the human nature, falling short can always happen.

While instead, who aims for just purgatory, is already setting a lower bar for themselves.
Purgatory after all is an idea which relies on the mercy of God, it's not something to actually aim for. Like one shouldn't sin with the idea that God is merciful anyway. I'm not sure where, but there should be a part in theology which deals with the ones who abuse the mercy of God.
There is also the idea that the time spent in purgatory is proportional to the purification needed to enter heaven, so just aiming for purgatory could lead to more purification needed.

Which sort of connects to the worry of Sundiata, if you are worried about the struggle in purgatory, aim the highest possible, that is heaven.
By aiming for heaven, either one gets there directly, or will have little to get purified from.

In short, just give it your all, becuase you are worth the effort, aim high. Is that it? (if so yes)

[Lost Memories]

In short, just give it your all, because you are worth the effort, aim high. Is that it? (if so yes)

Yep, though not just as an encouragement, but as a realization that the weakness of the human nature means we have to push ourselves more, to be up to what God expects from us. Just doing "the usual", isn't enough.

Actually aiming at heaven is nevertheless much easier said than done. The part of aiming itself, is hard. Before any speculative results or failures at it.
Knowing what God wants, being aware of God's will, is a matter of listening or understanding, following through on God's will and leaving aside old habits, is much harder than just listening.

The little digression about afterlife was interesting on its own, btw.

[Rosmana]

In short, just give it your all, because you are worth the effort, aim high. Is that it? (if so yes)

Yep, though not just as an encouragement, but as a realization that the weakness of the human nature means we have to push ourselves more, to be up to what God expects from us. Just doing "the usual", isn't enough.

Actually aiming at heaven is nevertheless much easier said than done. The part of aiming itself, is hard. Before any speculative results or failures at it.
Knowing what God wants, being aware of God's will, is a matter of listening or understanding, following through on God's will and leaving aside old habits, is much harder than just listening.

The little digression about afterlife was interesting on its own, btw.

No offense but most of the time people sell it like its "Do what God wants or BURN IN HELL", which is just, scary....

[Atheris]

Purgatory, as the name implies, the process of cleansing the soul undergoes as it enters heaven. Theres not really so much obstacles to overcome as there is just time to be endured. Purgatory isn't something you can fail.

Just time to be endured.

It's like waiting in line at the DMV.

False. Waiting in the line at the DMV is Hell.

Don't worry, I get them mixed up, too.

[Tarsonis]

What do you guys know about Purgatory? I am genuinely concerned. I don't want to think about the obstacles that it's going to take to overcome that if I even get the chance.

Aside what Tarsonis explained, I think it's more proper to aim for heaven, rather than to aim for purgatory (just not-hell).

Even Saints go through Purgatory. Purgatory is heaven.

[Sundiata]

Aside what Tarsonis explained, I think it's more proper to aim for heaven, rather than to aim for purgatory (just not-hell).

Even Saints go through Purgatory. Purgatory is heaven.

I think I get your point but I am reticent to agree. How does purgatory meet the conditions to be heaven? I was also under the impression that it is not a pleasant experience to have your soul cleansed.

[Tarsonis]

Even Saints go through Purgatory. Purgatory is heaven.

I think I get your point but I am reticent to agree. How does purgatory meet the conditions to be heaven? I was also under the impression that it is not a pleasant experience to have your soul cleansed.

There's great deal of misconception on Purgatory, but its not some alternate "3rd" place where the marginally good are separated from the hopelessly wicked.
Purgatory is instead a process, one every soul goes through as it enters heaven. Dante's mountain was allegorical to explain the different lsngyhs of time each soul has to go. St. Francis sprints up the mountain because his soul isn't weighed down with the stain of sin. Meanwhile, I'll be wiped out after two 8000 pound steps.

Analogy: If heaven is the Airport, purgatory is the baggage and TSA area.

[The Blaatschapen]

Just time to be endured.

It's like waiting in line at the DMV.

The DMV in Midtown Manhattan actually operates very quickly.

Who has a car in midtown manhattan?

[Sundiata]

St. Francis sprints up the mountain because his soul isn't weighed down with the stain of sin. Meanwhile, I'll be wiped out after two 8000 pound steps.

Analogy: If heaven is the Airport, purgatory is the baggage and TSA area.

This is really juvenile of me but the story of St. Francis with respect to unencumbered running reminds me of Sun Wukong.

[Sundiata]

The DMV in Midtown Manhattan actually operates very quickly.

Who has a car in midtown manhattan?

The Wall Streeters driving through from Lower Manhattan.

[Sundiata]

Meanwhile, I'll be wiped out after two 8000 pound steps.