Christian Discussion Thread XI: Anicetus’ Revenge

[Sundiata]

No I was pointing out you and others seemingly picking and chosing what part of the Bible you are going to follow.

I stopped argueing about those things a long time. I do reject it for theological and other reasons. But it is for the most part the way Sundiata and others here say it it. Thats (catholic) christianity. It is how it is. Theres no cherrypicking.

Just be straightforward about it and reject it. Do not try to make it bent but take it for what it is.

Do you subscribe to the idea of a telos or teleological purpose for human beings?

[Nakena]

I stopped argueing about those things a long time. I do reject it for theological and other reasons. But it is for the most part the way Sundiata and others here say it it. Thats (catholic) christianity. It is how it is. Theres no cherrypicking.

Just be straightforward about it and reject it. Do not try to make it bent but take it for what it is.

Do you subscribe to the idea of a telos or teleological purpose for human beings?

Any answer of mine to that would go beyond the context of this thread and thus do not expect me to answer you here at this place. Stop dragging other people in here. It's not going to be conductive towards any constructive dialogue.

Nothing good will come out of this.

[Luminesa]

Do you subscribe to the idea of a telos or teleological purpose for human beings?

Any answer of mine to that would go beyond the context of this thread and thus do not expect me to answer you here at this place. Stop dragging other people in here. It's not going to be conductive towards any constructive dialogue.

Nothing good will come out of this.

I was wondering why when I was reading back that this conversation chain led to the Indiana AG Thread. I had to check twice.

[Sundiata]

Do you subscribe to the idea of a telos or teleological purpose for human beings?

Any answer of mine to that would go beyond the context of this thread and thus do not expect me to answer you here at this place. Stop dragging other people in here. It's not going to be conductive towards any constructive dialogue.

Nothing good will come out of this.

I apologize, I just saw your request in the prior thread to TG you about your theological position. Will do.

[The Archregimancy]

Sun, I don't mean to come off as rude or anything but didn't the mods explicitly say that this thread was not to be used as a "Christian chat thread" but instead as a place for discussing Christianity, it's doctrine, it's history, it's culture, it's traditions, etc.? Most of your posts here sound like they're coming from a pulpit. Now I'm not trying to dump on you or anything, but your personal anecdotes about struggling with faith or inspirational messages don't really leave room for much discussion.

I'm trying to say this as politely as I can: the CDT is neither a soapbox nor a confessional and I'm fairly sure the mods would agree with me here.

There are at least two mods who post semi-regularly in the thread; if we thought there was a problem, we likely would have said something.

I don't have a real problem with Sun's statements of Catholic faith. They're not explicitly inviting discussion, but nor are they really 'chat', and they are relevant to the thread via outlining the positions of a devout Catholic. They have, in that capacity, occasionally formed the basis of further discussion.

I would, however, encourage him not to overdo it. If more than 10% of thread posts in any given week are Sundiata confessional statements, that might give us a problem.

What we do want to avoid is turning this into a prayer thread. We turn a blind eye to very occasional prayer requests in moments of personal crisis, but active and regular prayer requests (and prayers posted in response to those requests) would be awkward.

[Celritannia]

Thought I'd pop in and wish people a happy St. Andrew's Day.

[Lost Memories]

Oh well, that quote chain disoriented me too. I ended up replying in that other thread. Reposting the reply where it was meant to go.

Ha, this is a common misconception for non-Christians and Christians alike to mistake the ceremonial laws, and civil laws of Ancient Israel with the moral laws that apply eternally. Jesus fulfilled the law with his sacrifice, making the civil and ceremonial laws of Ancient Israel obsolete. The moral laws apply to this day, the apostles made clear which ones too. For example, marriage law, edicts against homosexuality, and those upholding gender roles. The ten commandments are a given as they were standard before Moses.

Were you genuinely curious or were you trying to get a rise out of me?

No I was pointing out you and others seemingly picking and chosing what part of the Bible you are going to follow.

No idea what was the wider point being made, but I'm going to jump in.
At least two mistakes you are making, the two most evident at least:
1) you assume the bible is the origin of the christian faith. It isn't, Jesus is the origin, and God itself who is cosubstantial with Jesus.
2) you assume a non-christian can understand better than christians, a book written and compiled by christians. That's faulty in logic. Who wrote and compiled any book (or text) knows best what intent was being conveyed in it.

[Lost Memories]

Thought I'd pop in and wish people a happy St. Andrew's Day.

Cheers and happy name day to anyone called Andrew.

Is there some specific meaning for St. Andrew's Day in some places, which I'm not aware of?
(I mean, it's unusual to see a specific saint day being mentioned)

Saint Andrew's Day is Scotland's official national day.

It has been a national holiday in Romania since 2015.
In Germany, the feast day is celebrated as Andreasnacht ("(St.) Andrew's Night"),
in Austria with the custom of Andreasgebet ("(St.) Andrew's Prayer"),
in Poland as Andrzejki ("Andrew's (festivities)"),
and in Russia as Андреева ночь ("Andrew's night").

Ohhh, I see.

Then. Good Saint Andrew's Day for Scotland and Romania, and good Andreasnacht, Andreasgebet, Andrzejki and Андреева ночь.

[Lost Memories]

Sun, I don't mean to come off as rude or anything but didn't the mods explicitly say that this thread was not to be used as a "Christian chat thread" but instead as a place for discussing Christianity, it's doctrine, it's history, it's culture, it's traditions, etc.? Most of your posts here sound like they're coming from a pulpit. Now I'm not trying to dump on you or anything, but your personal anecdotes about struggling with faith or inspirational messages don't really leave room for much discussion.

I'm trying to say this as politely as I can: the CDT is neither a soapbox nor a confessional and I'm fairly sure the mods would agree with me here.

To be open on this, it's some months I have Sundiata in the ignore list.
I agree that some, most, of his posts in here did come off very preachy, or "too introspective and personal", sometimes awkward, or spammy, and that often they didn't lead to any discussion. So after a while, it started to get bothersome or annoying, so I used the ignore function and moved on, only sometimes checking if something had changed in the posting style. I didn't say anything of it because it didn't feel like a pressing issue, and maybe it was just me feeling that way, and also because I don't doubt the sincerity of Sundiata, no need to make a fuss over what was just awkwardness. (given also the more recent reactions I got, about turning the mood sour)

Anyway, thanks Sundiata for being receptive, thanks Trollzyn for bringing that up.

[Sundiata]

Anyway, thanks Sundiata for being receptive, thanks Trollzyn for bringing that up.

Of course. We're all here for God.

[Kowani]

I know several people in here are LOTR fans, hence: several Lord of the Rings actors back effort to help buy J.R.R. Tolkien's former home in order to turn it into a literary centre dedicated to his works

this is not quite christian news, but since christianity was large part of tolkien's worldview and works, i think it slides by

[New Visayan Islands]

Because it's already December, the Church in the Philippines has some friendly reminders for those attending Simbang Gabi/Misa de Gallo. Just don't take your kids with you if you're in Manila, though.

Simbang Gabi is the predawn Novena Mass for Christmas, held from December 16th to the 24th. With The Coof derailing plans for celebrating half a millennium of Philippine Christendom*, I'm curious: how do our brothers and sisters in Christ prepare for the celebration of His Nativity?

* Examples include Nuestro Padre Jesus Nazare--NOPE in Manila, and a virtual Sinulog in Cebu.

[-Insaanistan-]

Peace be with you all.

I just realized I never asked this, but in the general Christian community, or within each sect of Christianity, what is the opinion of Islam and Muslims?

[Old Tyrannia]

Peace be with you all.

I just realized I never asked this, but in the general Christian community, or within each sect of Christianity, what is the opinion of Islam and Muslims?

I suspect that Christian opinions of Islam and Muslims will depend more on the individual's perspective than the particular denomination to which they belong.

[New Visayan Islands]

Peace be with you all.

I just realized I never asked this, but in the general Christian community, or within each sect of Christianity, what is the opinion of Islam and Muslims?

I suspect that Christian opinions of Islam and Muslims will depend more on the individual's perspective than the particular denomination to which they belong.

Generally speaking, what the honorable Mod Emeritus said.

In the context of the Catholic Church, however, her opinions on her Muslim cousins have changed from one of outright contempt (as demonstrated in the 7th century text Concerning Heresy by St. John Damascene, which refers to Islam as the "heresy of the Ishmaelites," and the outright archaic classification of Muslims as among the sons of the Devil on par with Protestants and non-Christians prior to Vatican II) to one where she is willing to embrace said cousins (Paragraphs 3 of Nostra Aetate and 16 of Lumen Gentium, both of which are documents tied to Vatican II).

The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth, who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.

Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom.

Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God. In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh. On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues. But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things, and as Saviour wills that all men be saved. Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience. Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel. She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life. But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator. Or some there are who, living and dying in this world without God, are exposed to final despair. Wherefore to promote the glory of God and procure the salvation of all of these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, "Preach the Gospel to every creature", the Church fosters the missions with care and attention.

[Sundiata]

Peace be with you all.

I just realized I never asked this, but in the general Christian community, or within each sect of Christianity, what is the opinion of Islam and Muslims?

I suspect that Christian opinions of Islam and Muslims will depend more on the individual's perspective than the particular denomination to which they belong.

I've had great experiences with people who were Muslim growing up. It was a pretty neutral factor in my interaction. I like Muslims. With respect to theology, my disagreements are very strong. I have so much to learn about Islam but I also have more to learn about my own.

[Tarsonis]

I suspect that Christian opinions of Islam and Muslims will depend more on the individual's perspective than the particular denomination to which they belong.

Generally speaking, what the honorable Mod Emeritus said.

In the context of the Catholic Church, however, her opinions on her Muslim cousins have changed from one of outright contempt (as demonstrated in the 7th century text Concerning Heresy by St. John Damascene, which refers to Islam as the "heresy of the Ishmaelites," and the outright archaic classification of Muslims as among the sons of the Devil on par with Protestants and non-Christians prior to Vatican II) to one where she is willing to embrace said cousins (Paragraphs 3 of Nostra Aetate and 16 of Lumen Gentium, both of which are documents tied to Vatican II).

The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth, who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.

Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Moslems, this sacred synod urges all to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understanding and to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of all mankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace and freedom.

Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God. In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh. On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues. But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things, and as Saviour wills that all men be saved. Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience. Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel. She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life. But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator. Or some there are who, living and dying in this world without God, are exposed to final despair. Wherefore to promote the glory of God and procure the salvation of all of these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, "Preach the Gospel to every creature", the Church fosters the missions with care and attention.

now if we can just avoid discussing politics at the family gatherings, we might even pass for only mildly dysfunctional

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Peace be with you all.

I just realized I never asked this, but in the general Christian community, or within each sect of Christianity, what is the opinion of Islam and Muslims?

I don't think any sect has an official view or opinion on Islam. It boils down to the belief of the individual or the overall community.

In my view, Islam is heretical and blasphemous. Muslims themselves seem alright for the most part, although Islamic fundies are easily worse than their Christian equivalent. But who cares what fundies think?

[Adamede]

Peace be with you all.

I just realized I never asked this, but in the general Christian community, or within each sect of Christianity, what is the opinion of Islam and Muslims?

There are over 2 billion Christians on the planet, in dozens of not hundreds of denominations and exponentially more individual congregations. Opinions on Muslims and Islam vary from very good to very bad and everywhere in between.

[Kungsu]

Peace be with you all.

I just realized I never asked this, but in the general Christian community, or within each sect of Christianity, what is the opinion of Islam and Muslims?

As others have said before, it really boils down to the individual rather than the sect. I do suspect a large majority of Christians have an overall negative opinion on Islam, though I am more than willing to admit I could be wrong on that matter.

As for me, I view Islam the same way I view Christianity: An overall good with at least some truths, some dangerous zealots, and a little too stuck in tradition. On the latter point I am easier on Islam than Christianity, as unwavering tradition is somewhat baked into Islam's core doctrine.

I typically have a slightly negative view on religious organizations and institutions as a whole, rather opting for personal spirituality and discovery, and I believe that reading and following the teachings of Christ will do you more good than subscribing to any preset doctrine. But to me Muslims and Christians are generally both good, though zealots and fanatics of either are a scourge upon this Earth.

[Lord Dominator]

On theology and the such, my opinion of Islam is generally a resounding meh. Different stuff than us, but still to my knowledge not definite and something that can be manipulated or ignored by bad actors, same as any other. My opinion of Muslims depends on the person or region/country were discussing.

[Spiritual Republic of Caryton]

Peace be with you all.

I just realized I never asked this, but in the general Christian community, or within each sect of Christianity, what is the opinion of Islam and Muslims?

Hello!

Within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we believe that religious freedom is paramount to society (as our founders experienced what it's like to be deprived of it first-hand). In regards to Islam, we happily co-exist with Muslims and show no hostility to them as we are all brothers and sisters of our Heavenly Father in whatever shape a person believes in.

In fact, our Prophet, Russell M. Nelson, visited Dr. Mohammad Abdulkarim Al-Issa November 5th of last year.

[-Insaanistan-]

Thank you guys for the responses I’ve already gotten!

[Sundiata]

Thank you guys for the responses I’ve already gotten!

You're welcome friend, God love you.

[-Insaanistan-]

Thank you guys for the responses I’ve already gotten!

You're welcome friend, God love you.

Same to you!