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Christian Discussion Thread XI: Anicetus’ Revenge

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What is your denomination?

Roman Catholic
263
38%
Eastern Orthodox
47
7%
Non-Chalcedonian (Oriental Orthodox, Church of the East, etc.)
6
1%
Anglican/Episcopalian
35
5%
Lutheran or Reformed (including Calvinist, Presbyterian, etc.)
71
10%
Methodist
16
2%
Baptist
66
9%
Other Evangelical Protestant (Pentecostal, Charismatic, etc.)
62
9%
Restorationist (LDS Movement, Jehovah's Witness, etc.)
32
5%
Other Christian
97
14%
 
Total votes : 695

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Rosmana
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Postby Rosmana » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:37 am

Tarsonis wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:I've had a question that I've had a hard time answering for myself lately: What exactly is a soul?


https://www.catholic.com/qa/what-exactly-is-a-soul

So the Ressurection is literal? :)
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Punished UMN
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Postby Punished UMN » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:44 am

Rosmana wrote:

So the Ressurection is literal? :)

Yes.
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Lower Nubia
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Postby Lower Nubia » Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:07 am

Salus Maior wrote:I've had a question that I've had a hard time answering for myself lately: What exactly is a soul?


The combination of mind/spirit and body.
Last edited by Lower Nubia on Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Lower Nubia
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Postby Lower Nubia » Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:08 am

Rosmana wrote:

So the Ressurection is literal? :)


It is the reason for Christian hope. A literal Ressurection.
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Rosmana
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Postby Rosmana » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:08 pm

Lower Nubia wrote:
Rosmana wrote:So the Ressurection is literal? :)


It is the reason for Christian hope. A literal Ressurection.

And be like angels. (I want a flaming sword as well)
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Diopolis
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Postby Diopolis » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:44 pm

Rosmana wrote:

So the Ressurection is literal? :)

Yes. It's why we're not to cremate ourselves or otherwise mutilate our bodies.
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Lost Memories
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Ex-Nation

Postby Lost Memories » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:12 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Rosmana wrote:So the Ressurection is literal? :)

Yes. It's why we're not to cremate ourselves or otherwise mutilate our bodies.

While i do share the sentiment against cremation, as a grave feels to me more respectful to the deceased than an urn of ashes(meant as the respect i am to give).
It has to be pointed out that unless a corpse is mummified, after a decade or so under ground, very little is left anyway, few of the bigger bones and that's it(ground bacteria and vermins really eat up everything, even bones).
So i would guess the resurrection would have to operate some total body rebuilding to work, even without cremation involved.
http://www.politicaltest.net/test/result/222881/

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A fox tried to reach some grapes hanging high on the vine, but was unable to.
As he went away, the fox remarked 'Oh, you aren't even ripe yet!'
As such are people who speak disparagingly of things that they cannot attain.
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or subtle illiteracy, or lazy sidetracking. Just fucking follow the context. And ask when in doubt.

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Lower Nubia
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Founded: Dec 22, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Lower Nubia » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:39 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Rosmana wrote:So the Ressurection is literal? :)

Yes. It's why we're not to cremate ourselves or otherwise mutilate our bodies.


Yeah, no. Cremation is fine. I understand the sentiment but it’s not like the Resurrection it going to be thwarted by being ashes. Heck the body and bones becomes dust with 10-100 years, so you’re literally speeding up a normal process anyway.
Last edited by Lower Nubia on Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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"These are they who are made like to God as far as possible, of their own free will, and by God's indwelling, and by His abiding grace. They are truly called gods, not by nature, but by participation; just as red-hot iron is called fire, not by nature, but by participation in the fire's action."
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Lost Memories
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Postby Lost Memories » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:45 pm

Salus Maior wrote:I've had a question that I've had a hard time answering for myself lately: What exactly is a soul?

Depends what do you mean with "exactly". What is the common definition you do know which feels lacking?

The cathecism gives a pretty complete outlook. (Tarsonis already linked an article with it, this is from the official)

But if i was to describe it with own words, i can find various view points at it:
-cynical: it's the personality
-metaphysical: it's the essence of the being
-as god is spirit, so the soul is spirit, in that sense the soul is the part in which we resemble god the most
the first two sound too dry(and maybe even incorrect), i like more the third version
Last edited by Lost Memories on Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.politicaltest.net/test/result/222881/

hmag

pagan american empireLiberalism is a LieWhat is Hell

"The whole is something else than the sum of its parts" -Kurt Koffka

A fox tried to reach some grapes hanging high on the vine, but was unable to.
As he went away, the fox remarked 'Oh, you aren't even ripe yet!'
As such are people who speak disparagingly of things that they cannot attain.
-The Fox and the Grapes

"Dictionaries don't decide what words mean. Prescriptivism is the ultimate form of elitism." -United Muscovite Nations
or subtle illiteracy, or lazy sidetracking. Just fucking follow the context. And ask when in doubt.

Not-asimov

We're all a bit stupid and ignorant, just be humble about it.

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Dollystana
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Postby Dollystana » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:48 pm

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Lower Nubia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Lower Nubia » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:50 pm

Lost Memories wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:I've had a question that I've had a hard time answering for myself lately: What exactly is a soul?

Depends what do you mean with "exactly". What is the common definition you do know which feels lacking?

The cathecism gives a pretty complete outlook. (Tarsonis already linked an article with it, this is from the official)

But if i was to describe it with own words, i can find various view points at it:
-cynical: it's the personality
-metaphysical: it's the essence of the being
-as god is spirit, so the soul is spirit, in that sense the soul is the part in which we resemble god the most
the first two sound too dry(an maybe even incorrect), i like more the third version


I find Catechism 367 wholly unhelpful. It brushes aside a real distinction.
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"These are they who are made like to God as far as possible, of their own free will, and by God's indwelling, and by His abiding grace. They are truly called gods, not by nature, but by participation; just as red-hot iron is called fire, not by nature, but by participation in the fire's action."
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Lost Memories
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Postby Lost Memories » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:59 pm

It may be a matter of language ambiguity, spirit and soul are sometimes used to mean the same.
Sometimes soul is used to refer to the whole being, so both the body and the spirit, sometimes it's used to mean the spirit alone.


Just imagine the mess it has to have been translating the bible and other important instructive text in other languages, while using local words and possible local language ambiguities, while keeping the same original meaning.

Though, if soul and spirit had to be used separately, how would the relation between them work?
material body + spiritual body, and the soul being the living will animating the whole?
Last edited by Lost Memories on Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
http://www.politicaltest.net/test/result/222881/

hmag

pagan american empireLiberalism is a LieWhat is Hell

"The whole is something else than the sum of its parts" -Kurt Koffka

A fox tried to reach some grapes hanging high on the vine, but was unable to.
As he went away, the fox remarked 'Oh, you aren't even ripe yet!'
As such are people who speak disparagingly of things that they cannot attain.
-The Fox and the Grapes

"Dictionaries don't decide what words mean. Prescriptivism is the ultimate form of elitism." -United Muscovite Nations
or subtle illiteracy, or lazy sidetracking. Just fucking follow the context. And ask when in doubt.

Not-asimov

We're all a bit stupid and ignorant, just be humble about it.

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Germanic Templars
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Postby Germanic Templars » Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:37 pm

So here is a thing that has happened: Jesus statue beheaded at Catholic church in South Florida.
Thoughts on this?
Last edited by Germanic Templars on Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lower Nubia
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Postby Lower Nubia » Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:41 pm

Lost Memories wrote:It may be a matter of language ambiguity, spirit and soul are sometimes used to mean the same.
Sometimes soul is used to refer to the whole being, so both the body and the spirit, sometimes it's used to mean the spirit alone.


Just imagine the mess it has to have been translating the bible and other important instructive text in other languages, while using local words and possible local language ambiguities, while keeping the same original meaning.

Though, if soul and spirit had to be used separately, how would the relation between them work?
material body + spiritual body, and the soul being the living will animating the whole?


I believe the spirit and body made the person and that unity was termed the soul.
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"These are they who are made like to God as far as possible, of their own free will, and by God's indwelling, and by His abiding grace. They are truly called gods, not by nature, but by participation; just as red-hot iron is called fire, not by nature, but by participation in the fire's action."
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Aeritai
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Postby Aeritai » Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:44 pm

Germanic Templars wrote:So here is a thing that has happened: Jesus statue beheaded at Catholic church in South Florida.
Thoughts on this?


This is just sad.... I hope whoever beheaded the statue is found by the police.
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Lower Nubia
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Postby Lower Nubia » Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:45 pm

Aeritai wrote:
Germanic Templars wrote:So here is a thing that has happened: Jesus statue beheaded at Catholic church in South Florida.
Thoughts on this?


This is just sad.... I hope whoever beheaded the statue is found by the police.


I hope their girlfriends turn into moon spirits.
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"These are they who are made like to God as far as possible, of their own free will, and by God's indwelling, and by His abiding grace. They are truly called gods, not by nature, but by participation; just as red-hot iron is called fire, not by nature, but by participation in the fire's action."
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Tarsonis
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Postby Tarsonis » Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:04 pm

Lower Nubia wrote:
Aeritai wrote:
This is just sad.... I hope whoever beheaded the statue is found by the police.


I hope their girlfriends turn into moon spirits.


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Lower Nubia
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Postby Lower Nubia » Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:06 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
Lower Nubia wrote:
I hope their girlfriends turn into moon spirits.


Low blow Zuko


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"These are they who are made like to God as far as possible, of their own free will, and by God's indwelling, and by His abiding grace. They are truly called gods, not by nature, but by participation; just as red-hot iron is called fire, not by nature, but by participation in the fire's action."
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Tarsonis
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Postby Tarsonis » Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:07 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Rosmana wrote:So the Ressurection is literal? :)

Yes. It's why we're not to cremate ourselves or otherwise mutilate our bodies.


Though the church has relaxed on that rule as were running out of room to burry bodies and really God would have no issue reconstituting a body. And He's going to have to considering that the dust from the bones of the first Christians is gone at this point.
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Thucydides: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
1 Corinthians 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:24 pm

Lower Nubia wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:I've had a question that I've had a hard time answering for myself lately: What exactly is a soul?


The combination of mind/spirit and body.


How can the body be part of the soul if they separate at death? If the mind degrades, as it can, does the soul also degrade alongside it?
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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:26 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
Diopolis wrote:Yes. It's why we're not to cremate ourselves or otherwise mutilate our bodies.


Though the church has relaxed on that rule as were running out of room to burry bodies and really God would have no issue reconstituting a body. And He's going to have to considering that the dust from the bones of the first Christians is gone at this point.


Plus, I imagine if God couldn't/wouldn't reconstitute a body, then a lot of soldiers throughout history/victims of genocide/etc. would be in a lot of trouble.
Traditionalist Catholic, Constitutional Monarchist, Habsburg Nostalgic, Distributist, Disillusioned Millennial.

"In any case we clearly see....That some opportune remedy must be found quickly for the misery and wretchedness pressing so unjustly on the majority of the working class...it has come to pass that working men have been surrendered, isolated and helpless, to the hardheartedness of employers and the greed of unchecked competition." -Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum

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Salus Maior
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Ex-Nation

Postby Salus Maior » Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:32 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Rosmana wrote:So the Ressurection is literal? :)

Yes. It's why we're not to cremate ourselves or otherwise mutilate our bodies.


Well, I'd say the stronger argument for not doing either of these would be that the body itself is sacred, being created in the Image of God and being the Temple of the Holy Spirit.
Traditionalist Catholic, Constitutional Monarchist, Habsburg Nostalgic, Distributist, Disillusioned Millennial.

"In any case we clearly see....That some opportune remedy must be found quickly for the misery and wretchedness pressing so unjustly on the majority of the working class...it has come to pass that working men have been surrendered, isolated and helpless, to the hardheartedness of employers and the greed of unchecked competition." -Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum

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State of Turelisa
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Ex-Nation

Postby State of Turelisa » Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:36 pm

Germanic Templars wrote:So here is a thing that has happened: Jesus statue beheaded at Catholic church in South Florida.
Thoughts on this?


In a world where religious nihilism has become rampant, I think vandalising a statue of somebody's earthly interpretation of Christ is the least destructive Anti-Christian act.
Last edited by State of Turelisa on Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Salus Maior
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Ex-Nation

Postby Salus Maior » Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:41 pm

State of Turelisa wrote:
Germanic Templars wrote:So here is a thing that has happened: Jesus statue beheaded at Catholic church in South Florida.
Thoughts on this?


In a world where religious nihilism has become rampant, I think vandalising a statue of somebody's earthly interpretation of Christ is the least destructive Anti-Christian act.


I'd say the fact that somebody's willing to go out of their way to physically show contempt towards the Christian faith is the most concerning thing.

Just a reminder that churches were attacked recently.
Traditionalist Catholic, Constitutional Monarchist, Habsburg Nostalgic, Distributist, Disillusioned Millennial.

"In any case we clearly see....That some opportune remedy must be found quickly for the misery and wretchedness pressing so unjustly on the majority of the working class...it has come to pass that working men have been surrendered, isolated and helpless, to the hardheartedness of employers and the greed of unchecked competition." -Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum

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State of Turelisa
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Ex-Nation

Postby State of Turelisa » Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:44 pm

Salus Maior wrote:
State of Turelisa wrote:
In a world where religious nihilism has become rampant, I think vandalising a statue of somebody's earthly interpretation of Christ is the least destructive Anti-Christian act.


I'd say the fact that somebody's willing to go out of their way to physically show contempt towards the Christian faith is the most concerning thing.

Just a reminder that churches were attacked recently.


I'd be more upset if a Christian was beheaded. I've never approved of religious icons.

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