Israel Accused of Planting Spy Devices near White House

[Pacomia]

Our government is pretty much an Israeli puppet.

Antisemitic conspiracy theory.

false

[Federative Rhodesia]

True, but shouldn't the United States work to root out all foreign spies, regardless of which country they're from?

Yes, they should, but I doubt it will ever happen in our lifetime. (I wonder how the US got this info in the first place hmm?) I just find it funny when governments get caught doing espionage, people are treating it like the nation is the bane of true evil lol.

It's especially annoying because it's Israel Imo, and here's why I think that:
1. Israel is, even with Omar and some young Democrats, almost UNIVERSALLY supported by politicians. (Basically universal vote for r. 447, for instance. Congress never cuts funding from Israel, Israel will almost always be supported in conflict)
2. Israel gets the "greatest ally" crap constantly
3. Israel wouldn't exist without the United States' support. That they have the nerve to spy on the country which is the reason for their existence is almost offensive.

[Major-Tom]

Antisemitic conspiracy theory.

false

I think to label our government as an "Israeli puppet" is far-fetched, and certainly misses the mark. Our government is beholden to a plethora of various lobbying groups, both domestic and foreign, a smorgasbord of special interest groups, etc etc. Pinning all the blame on Israel is, quite frankly, ridiculous.

And believe me, I have my qualms with the Israeli government as a whole. The Israeli influenced lobby has some serious clout in DC, but not to the extent where they "control everything."

[Pacomia]

"IsRaEl Is OuR gReAtEsT aLlY"

(Image)

What about Canada

[Pacomia]

false

I think to label our government as an "Israeli puppet" is far-fetched, and certainly misses the mark. Our government is beholden to a plethora of various lobbying groups, both domestic and foreign, a smorgasbord of special interest groups, etc etc. Pinning all the blame on Israel is, quite frankly, ridiculous.

And believe me, I have my qualms with the Israeli government as a whole.

Yeah, true, but that doesn't make it an anti-semitic conspiracy theory.

[The Commoners Republic of America]

This is worrying.

But not surprising. The amount of assistance and unwavering support we give Israel versus the amount of support they give us is laughable, their loyalty to our alliance is negligible. It's a relationship of basic strategic importance, nothing more. If anything, I'd be willing to give Israel props for managing to influence our foreign affairs so much while only being a country of about 8.5 million. Now that's clout.

Eh, I say the strategic location they have makes it up for all the military aid we give them. Without them, we'd be locked out from the entire middle east entirely, so to keep that doorway well-armed from enemies I'd say is a fine price as of now.

[Major-Tom]

"IsRaEl Is OuR gReAtEsT aLlY"

(Image)

What about Canada

They're our best ally, Trudeau only did blackface to appease the average Republican politician back in '01.

[Major-Tom]

I think to label our government as an "Israeli puppet" is far-fetched, and certainly misses the mark. Our government is beholden to a plethora of various lobbying groups, both domestic and foreign, a smorgasbord of special interest groups, etc etc. Pinning all the blame on Israel is, quite frankly, ridiculous.

And believe me, I have my qualms with the Israeli government as a whole.

Yeah, true, but that doesn't make it an anti-semitic conspiracy theory.

When it comes to critiquing Israel, there is way too much grey area between legitimate criticism, conspiracies, and anti-semitic lunacy. There are people who genuinely believe Israel is responsible for a great deal of the world's misfortune, and those people often harbor anti-semitic beliefs.

Then there are, of course, tangible and logical criticisms of the Israeli government and their predominant foreign policy as a whole. Which generally never strays into anti-semitic territory.

But to say, again, that we're an Israeli puppet? That is certainly conspiracy-like thinking.

[Drongonia]

Our government is pretty much an Israeli puppet.

Antisemitic conspiracy theory.

Ah yep, the name checks out.

[The Commoners Republic of America]

What about Canada

They're our best ally, Trudeau only did blackface to appease the average Republican politician back in '01.

That's a pretty dumb conclusion to make for Trudeau case lol. Maybe it's my sarcasm detector failing idk. Also, I can't think of anything that Canada does that Isreal doesn't do; at least in terms of helping the US. All that Canada does is piggyback off our military to fund their healthcare.

[Federative Rhodesia]

But not surprising. The amount of assistance and unwavering support we give Israel versus the amount of support they give us is laughable, their loyalty to our alliance is negligible. It's a relationship of basic strategic importance, nothing more. If anything, I'd be willing to give Israel props for managing to influence our foreign affairs so much while only being a country of about 8.5 million. Now that's clout.

Eh, I say the strategic location they have makes it up for all the military aid we give them. Without them, we'd be locked out from the entire middle east entirely, so to keep that doorway well-armed from enemies I'd say is a fine price as of now.

Consider this: Our alliance w/ Israel means working closely with any Arab state, minus Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states adjacent to it, is basically impossible. The Arab population of the world largely despises us, and that's directly because of our support to Israel.
Wouldn't it be better to have the support of the 1/6th of the world's population that speaks Arabic than the 8.5 million living in Israel?

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Our government is pretty much an Israeli puppet.

Antisemitic conspiracy theory.

Oh, more of this criticism of Israel equals antisemitism crap.

[The Commoners Republic of America]

Eh, I say the strategic location they have makes it up for all the military aid we give them. Without them, we'd be locked out from the entire middle east entirely, so to keep that doorway well-armed from enemies I'd say is a fine price as of now.

Consider this: Our alliance w/ Israel means working closely with any Arab state, minus Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states adjacent to it, is basically impossible. The Arab population of the world largely despises us, and that's directly because of our support to Israel.
Wouldn't it be better to have the support of the 1/6th of the world's population that speaks Arabic than the 8.5 million living in Israel?

Not if the 1/6th of the world's population is run by borderline dictatorships. Israel is the most European-style nation in the middle east, even with its faults, it's the go-to choice for a US ally.

[Major-Tom]

They're our best ally, Trudeau only did blackface to appease the average Republican politician back in '01.

That's a pretty dumb conclusion to make for Trudeau case lol. Maybe it's my sarcasm detector failing idk. Also, I can't think of anything that Canada does that Isreal doesn't do; at least in terms of helping the US. All that Canada does is piggyback off our military to fund their healthcare.

If it helps, I'm sarcastic like 99% of the time. Obviously Trudeau didn't wear blackface to make George W Bush blush, but hey, how hilarious would that be if it were true?

And that's not remotely true about Canada. This is best saved for a different thread, but in short, Canada's trade commitments, non-aggression pacts and overall friendliness across the board with us is the boiler plate definition of a strong ally. Even when it comes to nitty gritty details on the most mundane portions of foreign policy, they generally align with us, and vice versa.

[Gormwood]

Consider this: Our alliance w/ Israel means working closely with any Arab state, minus Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states adjacent to it, is basically impossible. The Arab population of the world largely despises us, and that's directly because of our support to Israel.
Wouldn't it be better to have the support of the 1/6th of the world's population that speaks Arabic than the 8.5 million living in Israel?

Not if the 1/6th of the world's population is run by borderline dictatorships. Israel is the most European-style nation in the middle east, even with its faults, it's the go-to choice for a US ally.

Headed by someone using office to dodge corruption charges.

[Federative Rhodesia]

Consider this: Our alliance w/ Israel means working closely with any Arab state, minus Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states adjacent to it, is basically impossible. The Arab population of the world largely despises us, and that's directly because of our support to Israel.
Wouldn't it be better to have the support of the 1/6th of the world's population that speaks Arabic than the 8.5 million living in Israel?

Not if the 1/6th of the world's population is run by borderline dictatorships. Israel is the most European-style nation in the middle east, even with its faults, it's the go-to choice for a US ally.

I don't think human rights=alliances. Take South Korea: a petty dictatorship right after the Korean War, but with U.S. guidance and influence gradually transformed into a democratic state.
If we had played the long game, there would've at least been the chance for more South Korea success stories in the Middle East.

[Major-Tom]

Consider this: Our alliance w/ Israel means working closely with any Arab state, minus Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states adjacent to it, is basically impossible. The Arab population of the world largely despises us, and that's directly because of our support to Israel.
Wouldn't it be better to have the support of the 1/6th of the world's population that speaks Arabic than the 8.5 million living in Israel?

Not if the 1/6th of the world's population is run by borderline dictatorships. Israel is the most European-style nation in the middle east, even with its faults, it's the go-to choice for a US ally.

It's a democratic state for most inhabitants. But Palestinians, many of whom live under direct or indirect Israeli control, are treated like second class citizens. It's comparable to how Zulus, Xhosa and other native Africans were treated under Apartheid rule in S.A.

[Trotskylvania]

So Ilhan Omar was right all along then?

Even if she hit the nail on the head, she's still an anti-semite. That's the smear tactic we have to stick to, right?

No she's not.

[The Commoners Republic of America]

Not if the 1/6th of the world's population is run by borderline dictatorships. Israel is the most European-style nation in the middle east, even with its faults, it's the go-to choice for a US ally.

I don't think human rights=alliances. Take South Korea: a petty dictatorship right after the Korean War, but with U.S. guidance and influence gradually transformed into a democratic state.
If we had played the long game, there would've at least been the chance for more South Korea success stories in the Middle East.

Yeah but you aren't accounting for the religions of western nations and the rest of the middle east. Judaism and Christianity have a lot of differences obviously, but are much more compatible then Islam in the middle east. I just don't think it would have the same success.

[Verlzonia]

It'd be a godsend if there was a mainstream presidential candidate that stood up to this pariah state. One can only wish

[Federative Rhodesia]

I don't think human rights=alliances. Take South Korea: a petty dictatorship right after the Korean War, but with U.S. guidance and influence gradually transformed into a democratic state.
If we had played the long game, there would've at least been the chance for more South Korea success stories in the Middle East.

Yeah but you aren't accounting for the religions of western nations and the rest of the middle east. Judaism and Christianity have a lot of differences obviously, but are much more compatible then Islam in the middle east. I just don't think it would have the same success.

Firstly note this: Human rights don't matter as much as you think they do. The appearance of them does, but the U.S. can and has often made alliances w/ petty dictators, or even installed them (Shah of Iran! Pinochet! South Korea!)

Secondly, you make the broad oversimplification that because religions are compatible, then nations are compatible. If that were true, then why aren't we allies with Russia? With South Africa? Religion does not equal alliance. I 100% guarantee you that any legitimate U.S. foreign policy creator would be willing to work with a different religious group if this benefits the security interest of the United States (Saudi Arabia, UAE, Bahrain, Qatar all prove this can happen)

[Major-Tom]

Even if she hit the nail on the head, she's still an anti-semite. That's the smear tactic we have to stick to, right?

No she's not.

I’m being sarcastic, hence the “smear tactic we stick to” comment. Sometimes I think I’m too dry lmao.

[Verlzonia]

Eh, I say the strategic location they have makes it up for all the military aid we give them. Without them, we'd be locked out from the entire middle east entirely, so to keep that doorway well-armed from enemies I'd say is a fine price as of now.

Until recently this wasn't a good excuse. Turkey was a secular, western-like. democratic nation in the Middle East that we also had an alliance with, and DIDN'T spy on our government. I understand that recent events have changed this, but over the course of post war history, Israel hasn't been the only option for the U.S.

[Verlzonia]

I don't think human rights=alliances. Take South Korea: a petty dictatorship right after the Korean War, but with U.S. guidance and influence gradually transformed into a democratic state.
If we had played the long game, there would've at least been the chance for more South Korea success stories in the Middle East.

Yeah but you aren't accounting for the religions of western nations and the rest of the middle east. Judaism and Christianity have a lot of differences obviously, but are much more compatible then Islam in the middle east. I just don't think it would have the same success.

Judaism and Islam are relatively at the same amount of difference with Christianity. Islam could even be closer than Judaism to Christianity by some definitions.

[The Commoners Republic of America]

Yeah but you aren't accounting for the religions of western nations and the rest of the middle east. Judaism and Christianity have a lot of differences obviously, but are much more compatible then Islam in the middle east. I just don't think it would have the same success.

Firstly note this: Human rights don't matter as much as you think they do. The appearance of them does, but the U.S. can and has often made alliances w/ petty dictators, or even installed them (Shah of Iran! Pinochet! South Korea!)

Secondly, you make the broad oversimplification that because religions are compatible, then nations are compatible. If that were true, then why aren't we allies with Russia? With South Africa? Religion does not equal alliance. I 100% guarantee you that any legitimate U.S. foreign policy creator would be willing to work with a different religious group if this benefits the security interest of the United States (Saudi Arabia, UAE, Bahrain, Qatar all prove this can happen)

Then in the end it doesn't freaking matter weather the US and sides with Israel or any "Insert Other middle eastern nation here". If we were to prop-up any other middle eastern country, they'd eventually do the same things that we are accusing Israel of doing. Plus, there location being in the Mediterranian is far more valuable than anything else the middle-east has to offer. Also, South Korea took plenty of aid from us to get to the point they are at today. So what's the difference if we give money to a country for defensive purposes or not? This is all going by a bunch of what-ifs that doesn't really matter at this point.

The Muslim religion is at the point where it was making extreme religious beliefs into law far before we got involved. They are too far gone.