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by Bienenhalde » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:50 pm
Minachia wrote:Isn't that what Nazbols and Mussolini-type Fascists are? Or, for that matter, every regime that ever called itself Communist?
by The New California Republic » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:52 pm
by Minachia » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:54 pm
Bienenhalde wrote:Minachia wrote:Isn't that what Nazbols and Mussolini-type Fascists are? Or, for that matter, every regime that ever called itself Communist?
I would not call hard-line communists like Stalinists and Maoists socially conservative because of their hostility to religion and to traditional customs and social institutions like monarchy. I would actually call that authoritarian social progressivism.
by Communal concils » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:54 pm
US-SSR wrote:Can you be a State Socialist a la Stalin, a traditional labor union adherent or leader, or a Social Democrat and be a "social conservative?" Sure.
Can you believe workers should control the means of production; that the proper program of socialism is not to reform capitalism but to replace it; and that society should be organized for the benefit of those who produce its wealth rather than for the benefit of their exploiters, and also believe:
- people should be prevented from living, loving and pursuing their own happiness as they see fit;
- people should be prevented from moving wherever they choose to move in the world;
- society should be forced to spend its scarce resources on armies and police forces, most of which are used to repress dissent and/or extract resources from others;
- robber barons should be permitted to despoil the planet in fulfillment of their personal greed?
No. No, you can't.
by Drongonia » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:55 pm
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by Communal concils » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:55 pm
Minachia wrote:Bienenhalde wrote:I would not call hard-line communists like Stalinists and Maoists socially conservative because of their hostility to religion and to traditional customs and social institutions like monarchy. I would actually call that authoritarian social progressivism.
Well, I was kind of basing that off of Concil's list of socially conservative ideals deemed incompatible with socialism.
by Wallenburg » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:55 pm
by Highever » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:59 pm
Communal concils wrote:
4. A human life is worth more than a lower intelligent and stupid dog
Nice ideals from a Libertarian. I give it -100/ 10.
Jolthig wrote:Use Soresu and not Juyo.
Charlie Chaplin wrote:Nothing is permanent in this wicked world, not even our troubles.
by The New California Republic » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:59 pm
by Communal concils » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:59 pm
The New California Republic wrote:Highever wrote:And how exactly are you going to replace rights after taking away pretty much every reasonable right under the sun?
I honestly don't think cc has any new rights to replace the ones that they will take away. I think it is just a lie to lull people into a false sense of security that something better is on the way, when in actual fact cc has no intention of ever replacing the rights that they intend to take away.
by Highever » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:01 pm
Communal concils wrote:The New California Republic wrote:I honestly don't think cc has any new rights to replace the ones that they will take away. I think it is just a lie to lull people into a false sense of security that something better is on the way, when in actual fact cc has no intention of ever replacing the rights that they intend to take away.
I don't expect Libertarian Socialist to actually protect their society. They will lead people into a false sense of security, and the fall of the old system would lead to smaller states rather than no state.So, they have no intentions of preserving it.
Jolthig wrote:Use Soresu and not Juyo.
Charlie Chaplin wrote:Nothing is permanent in this wicked world, not even our troubles.
by The New California Republic » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:01 pm
Communal concils wrote:A human life is worth more than a lower intelligent and stupid dog.
by The New California Republic » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:02 pm
Communal concils wrote:The New California Republic wrote:I honestly don't think cc has any new rights to replace the ones that they will take away. I think it is just a lie to lull people into a false sense of security that something better is on the way, when in actual fact cc has no intention of ever replacing the rights that they intend to take away.
I don't expect Libertarian Socialist to actually protect their society. They will lead people into a false sense of security, and the fall of the old system would lead to smaller states rather than no state.So, they have no intentions of preserving it.
by Wallenburg » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:03 pm
by Communal concils » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:03 pm
Wallenburg wrote:If they want to eliminate economic hierarchies and the bigotry that holds them up but preserve social hierarchies and the bigotry that holds them up? Yeah, they can be ideologically inconsistent.
by Minachia » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:05 pm
by Highever » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:05 pm
Communal concils wrote:Wallenburg wrote:If they want to eliminate economic hierarchies and the bigotry that holds them up but preserve social hierarchies and the bigotry that holds them up? Yeah, they can be ideologically inconsistent.
They don't contradict. I support Bigotry against those I consider Reactionary, and i support a social hierarchy to allow for mass production and massive industries for a society. I want a planned economy, and eventually I seek to replace current and reactionary views that are new. New, but appeal to the reactionary, in hopes of converting them, but also to find an alternative to liberalism.
Jolthig wrote:Use Soresu and not Juyo.
Charlie Chaplin wrote:Nothing is permanent in this wicked world, not even our troubles.
by The New California Republic » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:06 pm
Communal concils wrote:Wallenburg wrote:If they want to eliminate economic hierarchies and the bigotry that holds them up but preserve social hierarchies and the bigotry that holds them up? Yeah, they can be ideologically inconsistent.
They don't contradict. I support Bigotry against those I consider Reactionary, and i support a social hierarchy to allow for mass production and massive industries for a society. I want a planned economy, and eventually I seek to replace current and reactionary views that are new. New, but appeal to the reactionary, in hopes of converting them, but also to find an alternative to liberalism.
by Torrocca » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:07 pm
Communal concils wrote:The New California Republic wrote:I honestly don't think cc has any new rights to replace the ones that they will take away. I think it is just a lie to lull people into a false sense of security that something better is on the way, when in actual fact cc has no intention of ever replacing the rights that they intend to take away.
I don't expect Libertarian Socialist to actually protect their society.
by The New California Republic » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:08 pm
by Sa Annaeia » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:09 pm
Philjia wrote:Socially conservative values are often presented as being beneficial to the collective and creating a strong community, in contrast to the emphasis placed on individuals by liberal social values, so one who supports socialism as a means to create a strong community driven or institutionally controlled society may be socially conservative on those grounds.
by US-SSR » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:09 pm
Communal concils wrote:US-SSR wrote:Can you be a State Socialist a la Stalin, a traditional labor union adherent or leader, or a Social Democrat and be a "social conservative?" Sure.
Can you believe workers should control the means of production; that the proper program of socialism is not to reform capitalism but to replace it; and that society should be organized for the benefit of those who produce its wealth rather than for the benefit of their exploiters, and also believe:
- people should be prevented from living, loving and pursuing their own happiness as they see fit;
- people should be prevented from moving wherever they choose to move in the world;
- society should be forced to spend its scarce resources on armies and police forces, most of which are used to repress dissent and/or extract resources from others;
- robber barons should be permitted to despoil the planet in fulfillment of their personal greed?
No. No, you can't.
1. assuming that they are actually think correctly
2. Diseases, contraband, human trafficking.
3. I find now problem in suppressing Nazis and racial supremacist of all flavors. I also think that rape should be punished by death. also, police exist to keep order. The Military exist to protect territory.
4. A human life is worth more than a lower intelligent and stupid dog
Nice ideals from a Libertarian. I give it -100/ 10.
by Communal concils » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:11 pm
Highever wrote:Communal concils wrote:
I don't expect Libertarian Socialist to actually protect their society. They will lead people into a false sense of security, and the fall of the old system would lead to smaller states rather than no state.So, they have no intentions of preserving it.
How does this answer the question of what new rights you will establish to replace the elimination if pretty much all existing ones? Also what are you even saying with this drivel?
by Highever » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:13 pm
Communal concils wrote:Highever wrote:How does this answer the question of what new rights you will establish to replace the elimination if pretty much all existing ones? Also what are you even saying with this drivel?
Well, I think citizens should have access to food, water and a shelter. However, I believe free healthcare , free education and guarantee of employment should be a thing. You know, welfare stuff. People should also have freedom to be protected, to not be disadvantage by racism or sexism.
This perceived "Drivel" is just a response to NCR. If a state socialist like myself can't offer these liberal values of "Freedom", then I expect a Libertarian Socialist like himself to not actually protect it. If I can't offer it, then he can't retain it.
Jolthig wrote:Use Soresu and not Juyo.
Charlie Chaplin wrote:Nothing is permanent in this wicked world, not even our troubles.
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