Why do/don't you believe in a higher power? (Any HP)

[Korhal IVV]

... it is completely possible to be a rationalist and logical Christian, though. And I believe it has already been stated so many times that one cannot physically measure a metaphysical being.

Rationalist ≠ atheist, but getting rid of dogmatic culture is one of the big big progress the world had experienced. Good for you if you're Christian because of (reasons), instead of because Papa also is.

I wouldn't consider someone really Christian if they are Christian just because their family is.

Legalism is idiotic too. Lol.

[Australian rePublic]

... it is completely possible to be a rationalist and logical Christian, though. And I believe it has already been stated so many times that one cannot physically measure a metaphysical being.

Rationalist ≠ atheist, but getting rid of dogmatic culture is one of the big big progress the world had experienced. Good for you if you're Christian because of (reasons), instead of because Papa also is.

... it is completely possible to be a rationalist and logical Christian, though. And I believe it has already been stated so many times that one cannot physically measure a metaphysical being.

Rationalist ≠ atheist, but getting rid of dogmatic culture is one of the big big progress the world had experienced. Good for you if you're Christian because of (reasons), instead of because Papa also is.

I am a Christian because I believe that I've experienced the presence of God, and that God has actively interfered with my life. I would say that I'm more spiritual than religious, in that, I tend to focus more on my personal rwlationship with God, rather than the organised religion side of it (though I actively participate in the later, not as much as I should, but that's a different matter). Is my beliefe rational, probably not. However, I'm just compeled to believe that there is someone or something bigger than all of us out there guiding us through life. Is my belief logical? Is it rational? Probably not, but that ain't gonna stop me from believing. I don't knlw why, I guess there's just a spark inside me pointing me toward a higher power who loves me (even though my life is full of struggles). Is it rational? Probably not, but it's there. I certainly don't believe just because I was raised Christian, and there were times when I've doubted my faith, but ultimately, those doubts have made ultimately made my faith stronger. Is my faith rational? Probably not. But can also understand, and sympathise with, the perspective of atheists

[Australian rePublic]

This is something that I saw on Quora...
Hypothetical- If I took you to 3 different fields. If at eacg field I took you to, I told you to ask God for a lightning strike. If there is a lightening strike each of those three times, would you believe in God. Of coarse, I'm not sure if God works like that, not sure if He manifests Himself to us in such an obvious manner, but if He did, would that convince you?

[Thuzbekistan]

This is something that I saw on Quora...
Hypothetical- If I took you to 3 different fields. If at eacg field I took you to, I told you to ask God for a lightning strike. If there is a lightening strike each of those three times, would you believe in God. Of coarse, I'm not sure if God works like that, not sure if He manifests Himself to us in such an obvious manner, but if He did, would that convince you?

Not if someone took me to those. I would have to choose the fields time and place. But if I chose them and it happened, I would believe whatever deity I prayed to existed as long as it was specific and clearly unnatural. Someone taking me to specific fields raises the hypothetical doubt of foreknowledge or intervention. Even then, though, if someone showed me how it happened in a natural manner, I would be dissuaded and, as always, I would look to ensure that a super natural being was the only way this could happen.

But, as has been pointed out in this thread, there are much more efficient methods.

[Page]

This is something that I saw on Quora...
Hypothetical- If I took you to 3 different fields. If at eacg field I took you to, I told you to ask God for a lightning strike. If there is a lightening strike each of those three times, would you believe in God. Of coarse, I'm not sure if God works like that, not sure if He manifests Himself to us in such an obvious manner, but if He did, would that convince you?

I would assume there is some sort of device or illusion that imitated a natural lightning strike. If it was proven beyond a reasonable doubt that it was an organic lightning strike without any human intervention, then I would have to consider that the odds of this naturally occurring three times are quite low. But I would only then conclude there is a powerful force or being that can control lightning. I would not assume this force is all-powerful, all-knowing, eternal, or that it is deserving of worship.

[The New California Republic]

This is something that I saw on Quora...
Hypothetical- If I took you to 3 different fields. If at eacg field I took you to, I told you to ask God for a lightning strike. If there is a lightening strike each of those three times, would you believe in God. Of coarse, I'm not sure if God works like that, not sure if He manifests Himself to us in such an obvious manner, but if He did, would that convince you?

No. I'd call bullshit on it by saying that there is some mechanism that you have set up in those fields, by which you can create lightning or the illusion of lightning.

For the experiment, I propose that random fields are chosen. They will likely be in different countries, and there will likely be some form of control measure set up, to make sure that the fields or the area around them has not been tampered with in any way, or that there were no unusual features that could affect the result.

As part of the control measures, you and me would probably be excluded from the experiment entirely, and neutral third parties would go to the fields to ask God for lightning strikes. Multiple pieces of recording and scientific equipment would be needed, to ensure that what actually occurred (if there was anything) was a lightning strike. There would need to be a host of different phrases said by the third parties, to make sure that it was the addressing of God and requesting lightning that resulted in a lightning strike. Several different phrases in different languages would also need to be used.

The experiment would need to be repeated multiple times, in multiple different locations, with multiple different people, at different times of the day and year.

I sincerely doubt that what you are proposing would pass through the scientific method and come out on the other side as proven.

[Neanderthaland]

This is something that I saw on Quora...
Hypothetical- If I took you to 3 different fields. If at eacg field I took you to, I told you to ask God for a lightning strike. If there is a lightening strike each of those three times, would you believe in God. Of coarse, I'm not sure if God works like that, not sure if He manifests Himself to us in such an obvious manner, but if He did, would that convince you?

It hardly matters, seeing as how an omniscient God knows exactly what it would take to convince every single one of us. And is capable of doing exactly that.

If a God existed that wanted to make itself factually known, it could and would.

[Wunderstrafanstalt]

Now that I became increasingly agnostic, I find it increasingly satisfying to replace the word "God", "Allah", "Jesus", "Brahma" etc with "Flying Spaghetti Monster", re-run the logic test and see it fall apart (since we know that His Noodly Appendages doesn't exist... or does he?).

[Nolo gap]

i believe we can experience things that can be neither proven nor disproven, because i have experienced them.
what i don't believe is that they owe anything to what people tell each other, because there in nothing to oblige them to do so.

[Wunderstrafanstalt]

This is something that I saw on Quora...
Hypothetical- If I took you to 3 different fields. If at eacg field I took you to, I told you to ask God for a lightning strike. If there is a lightening strike each of those three times, would you believe in God. Of coarse, I'm not sure if God works like that, not sure if He manifests Himself to us in such an obvious manner, but if He did, would that convince you?

(((((((((((if)))))))))))). The main problem is also that God already proved himself by dividing the moon or flooding the earth, which is quite an undeniable proof if we assume those things happen.

Those lighning strikes should be measured by thr proper equipments through scientific method, and if there are no explanation, maybe I'll reconsider my beliefs. But why stop there? Why don't God, say, send down his angels and idk, overthrow Trump? That surely will make everyone flock to believe in Him.

[Australian rePublic]

This is something that I saw on Quora...
Hypothetical- If I took you to 3 different fields. If at eacg field I took you to, I told you to ask God for a lightning strike. If there is a lightening strike each of those three times, would you believe in God. Of coarse, I'm not sure if God works like that, not sure if He manifests Himself to us in such an obvious manner, but if He did, would that convince you?

(((((((((((if)))))))))))). The main problem is also that God already proved himself by dividing the moon or flooding the earth, which is quite an undeniable proof if we assume those things happen.

Those lighning strikes should be measured by thr proper equipments through scientific method, and if there are no explanation, maybe I'll reconsider my beliefs. But why stop there? Why don't God, say, send down his angels and idk, overthrow Trump? That surely will make everyone flock to believe in Him.

You don't like Dobald Trump. you. That doesn't mean that God allowing him to rule makes Him malevolent. Besides, there's a long list who need to be overthrown before Trump: Xi Jinping, Kim Jong-un...

[Wunderstrafanstalt]

(((((((((((if)))))))))))). The main problem is also that God already proved himself by dividing the moon or flooding the earth, which is quite an undeniable proof if we assume those things happen.

Those lighning strikes should be measured by thr proper equipments through scientific method, and if there are no explanation, maybe I'll reconsider my beliefs. But why stop there? Why don't God, say, send down his angels and idk, overthrow Trump? That surely will make everyone flock to believe in Him.

You don't like Dobald Trump. you. That doesn't mean that God allowing him to rule makes Him malevolent. Besides, there's a long list who need to be overthrown before Trump: Xi Jinping, Kim Jong-un...

No, I mean for God to do something very obvious and understandable so that everyone saw the undeniable proof of His existence. This has no correlation with whether Trump, Macron or Kim should be overthrown or etc, it's just an example. Although yes I don't like Trump.

[Australian rePublic]

You don't like Dobald Trump. you. That doesn't mean that God allowing him to rule makes Him malevolent. Besides, there's a long list who need to be overthrown before Trump: Xi Jinping, Kim Jong-un...

No, I mean for God to do something very obvious and understandable so that everyone saw the undeniable proof of His existence. This has no correlation with whether Trump, Macron or Kim should be overthrown or etc, it's just an example. Although yes I don't like Trump.

Got that. My point is that your hatred of Trump to the point where you think that he should be divinely overthrown is undemocratic. There are many people who like Trump, non-brainwashed people

[Lost Memories]

This is something that I saw on Quora...
Hypothetical- If I took you to 3 different fields. If at eacg field I took you to, I told you to ask God for a lightning strike. If there is a lightening strike each of those three times, would you believe in God. Of coarse, I'm not sure if God works like that, not sure if He manifests Himself to us in such an obvious manner, but if He did, would that convince you?

Is that a thought experiment to show how even if the "proof" unbelievers always ask for was given, they would still refuse it?
Meaning unbelievers asking for some "proof" is either disingenuous, just made of rhetoric, ultimatety meaningless?

[Dogmeat]

No, I mean for God to do something very obvious and understandable so that everyone saw the undeniable proof of His existence. This has no correlation with whether Trump, Macron or Kim should be overthrown or etc, it's just an example. Although yes I don't like Trump.

Got that. My point is that your hatred of Trump to the point where you think that he should be divinely overthrown is undemocratic. There are many people who like Trump, non-brainwashed people

You're oddly fixated on a throw-away example, and I get the feeling that his actual point has entirely escaped you.

[Australian rePublic]

This is something that I saw on Quora...
Hypothetical- If I took you to 3 different fields. If at eacg field I took you to, I told you to ask God for a lightning strike. If there is a lightening strike each of those three times, would you believe in God. Of coarse, I'm not sure if God works like that, not sure if He manifests Himself to us in such an obvious manner, but if He did, would that convince you?

Is that a thought experiment to show how even if the "proof" unbelievers always ask for was given, they would still refuse it?
Meaning unbelievers asking for some "proof" is either disingenuous, just made of rhetoric, ultimatety meaningless?

The Quora experiment? Don't know, don't care. My experiment is a legitimate question

[Australian rePublic]

Got that. My point is that your hatred of Trump to the point where you think that he should be divinely overthrown is undemocratic. There are many people who like Trump, non-brainwashed people

You're oddly fixated on a throw-away example, and I get the feeling that his actual point has entirely escaped you.

No I got it. It just gives me the shits how anti-democratic some leftists are sometimes

[The Grims]

This is something that I saw on Quora...
Hypothetical- If I took you to 3 different fields. If at eacg field I took you to, I told you to ask God for a lightning strike. If there is a lightening strike each of those three times, would you believe in God. Of coarse, I'm not sure if God works like that, not sure if He manifests Himself to us in such an obvious manner, but if He did, would that convince you?

(((((((((((if)))))))))))). The main problem is also that God already proved himself by dividing the moon or flooding the earth, which is quite an undeniable proof if we assume those things happen.

Does it means God does not exist if we show those things did not happen ?

[Estanglia]

This is something that I saw on Quora...
Hypothetical- If I took you to 3 different fields. If at eacg field I took you to, I told you to ask God for a lightning strike. If there is a lightening strike each of those three times, would you believe in God. Of coarse, I'm not sure if God works like that, not sure if He manifests Himself to us in such an obvious manner, but if He did, would that convince you?

No, as there is the possibility that it was a giant coincidence. If anyone could do it, consistently and repeatedly, even when it would be a violation of the laws of physics, and/or the lightning strikes made a pattern associated with the God, like a cross or the word 'God', then I would probably accept that as proof.

[Dogmeat]

Is that a thought experiment to show how even if the "proof" unbelievers always ask for was given, they would still refuse it?
Meaning unbelievers asking for some "proof" is either disingenuous, just made of rhetoric, ultimatety meaningless?

The Quora experiment? Don't know, don't care. My experiment is a legitimate question

To what end is it a legitimate question? What point are you trying to clarify?

Because if this is just about the single hypothetical, "under these very specific circumstances, would non-believers believe?" and no larger implications are to be drawn from that, then your question is pointless. Those very specific circumstances are unlikely to arise, and so the thought experiment will never apply to the real world.

If, on the other hand, you are suggesting larger implications, then your question is not pointless. You are using it to explore or suggest something about human, and in particular atheist, psychology. In which case Lost Memories is right to question you.

[Lanorth]

Personally, I have a religion (Christianity) but struggle to believe it, which most British people do not. I am British, and normally all of the British are devout Christians. Not me. I find it hard to believe (and quite frankly don't) that Jesus went around healing people by touching them. I struggle with religion, and I always think about what comes after death. Are you reborn, like Buddhists believe? Are you taken to Heaven, or a form of Afterlife? Or are you taken to a form of Hell? I have heard stories that people have come close to death and have come back, and how people have said there is a calm and golden light that engulfs everything to the far corner of the universe and it stays like that. Personally, I do not fear death and I am ready to embrace whatever happens following the event. I sometimes struggle to believe that God created the universe, because I believe that The Big Bang created the universe. I find it quite strange to think about, and I think I may change religion in the near future because of this. If I do not believe in the power of Jesus, I do not believe in the power of God. I think it will end up that way.

[Dogmeat]

You're oddly fixated on a throw-away example, and I get the feeling that his actual point has entirely escaped you.

No I got it. It just gives me the shits how anti-democratic some leftists are sometimes

I don't think he seriously is, and I think you are going through an enormous amount of trouble to misconstrue and strawman your opponent. Allowing you to both demonize "leftists" and ignore the actual argument.

[Australian rePublic]

No I got it. It just gives me the shits how anti-democratic some leftists are sometimes

I don't think he seriously is, and I think you are going through an enormous amount of trouble to misconstrue and strawman your opponent. Allowing you to both demonize "leftists" and ignore the actual argument.

Well, I thought he was serious. Sorry for misinterpreting

[Wunderstrafanstalt]

You're oddly fixated on a throw-away example, and I get the feeling that his actual point has entirely escaped you.

No I got it. It just gives me the shits how anti-democratic some leftists are sometimes

I just don't like him because he is a detriment to my country's future (hint: not US) but I uphold that unilaterally changing an institutionalized result (election) is a bad bad thing with far far worse result. But this is derailing from the thread ffs so let's go on.

(((((((((((if)))))))))))). The main problem is also that God already proved himself by dividing the moon or flooding the earth, which is quite an undeniable proof if we assume those things happen.

Does it means God does not exist if we show those things did not happen ?

Those particular gods doesn't exist, since it would mean their scripture are wrong, although the process of we showing that those things didn't happen should be presented through the scientific non-dogmatic method. But I get the feeling that they'll just make a reinterpretation.

Other than that, proving that God doesn't exist is like proving that there is no small invisible flying spaghetti monster orbiting Mars responsible for every hiccups experienced by every human. Try disproving that.

[Australian rePublic]

The Quora experiment? Don't know, don't care. My experiment is a legitimate question

To what end is it a legitimate question? What point are you trying to clarify?

Because if this is just about the single hypothetical, "under these very specific circumstances, would non-believers believe?" and no larger implications are to be drawn from that, then your question is pointless. Those very specific circumstances are unlikely to arise, and so the thought experiment will never apply to the real world.

If, on the other hand, you are suggesting larger implications, then your question is not pointless. You are using it to explore or suggest something about human, and in particular atheist, psychology. In which case Lost Memories is right to question you.

I never said that Lost Memories didn't have a right to question me. I said it was undemocratic of him to demand that God overthrows a democratically elected leader