Rape by Deception

[James_xenoland]

I think this falls more under fraud than rape. Kinda like a restaurant lying about a recipe not having any allergens that the customer specifically warned the chef about and the chef served it anyway to make a buck and endanger the life of the victim.

Yeah. Two chefs who did that are in jail for manslaughter.

I meant within the context/logic of this case. If we were talking lies about using a condom, then maybe it might be a little different.. But this is literally the same as lying about being on BC. A very dangerous precedent.

Why? The consent was not informed. If you admitted you weren't on bc, then the man could decide either to put on a condom or not have sex.

I don't see how it's not equivalent to lying about being infertile, or not having an STI.

Ok, I should have made this more clear. I don't think either case is rape, rape like, or criminal. I'm arguing from the position, the laughable "logic" used to charge and convict this guy. In fact I think it's quite offensive to even use that word here. (Another sign of dangerous definition/meaning-creep like with so many other terms today.) If she was so against the idea of getting preg then why didn't she require a condom and or be on BC?! This is about basic responsibility!


(this next part isn't addressed to you. It's just something else I wanted to point out.)

A second point I want to make is to address the much loved red herring about BC not being 100%, which is used as if it meant anything. Bad news, vasectomies aren't 100% either! In fact even being (or thought to be) sterile isn't a sure thing. If a woman really doesn't want to risk getting preg then it's up to her to make sure at the very least not to rely on someone else's word or state. Use a condom.. (which goes without saying especially in cases outside of a relationship) Cut or BC, it matters not, it's irrelevant. It comes down to basic responsibility.. Nothing at all to do with rape or the other person! (at least when it comes to issues of what's criminal)

[Kowani]

Yeah, that's extremely fucked up. Don't rape people, my friends.

That makes it seem so easy. But what if I really want sex?

Get a toy.
If you need human contact, find ethical prostitution.

Don’t rape people.

[Bear Stearns]

Based on the article, it's not rape by deception, it's pregnancy by deception. This would be more appropriately dealt with by custody courts than by criminal (rape) courts.

[Luna Amore]

Informed consent is for medical procedures not sex. If I am sleeping with a dumbass who doesn't understand the risk of Pregnancy and STIs it is not rape.

The standard is consent alone, provided the party is of legal age and is not mentally incapacitated.

Lying about having an STI is considered Grievous Bodily Harm in the UK -- just for the record.

And informed consent covers sex, too. If consent is not informed, it doesn't count. A person who consents while highly intoxicated is often -- in law -- deemed not to consent, as they did not know what was happening to give informed consent.

Think about it. Why would it informed consent not matter for sex? Like a medical procedure, sex is also something (stripped down to basics) involving risks, involving your body (over which you have bodily sovereignty, to be given up to no-one -- even a long-term partner).

Why is there so much resistance -- in sex only -- to the idea of informed consent?

Following legislation in The Free Joy State, newlyweds are required to pass a six-week course on informed consent before consummating the marriage.

[Wallenburg]

Yeah, that's extremely fucked up. Don't rape people, my friends.

That makes it seem so easy. But what if I really want sex?

Sarcasm, yes?

[The Alma Mater]

Yeah, that's extremely fucked up. Don't rape people, my friends.

That makes it seem so easy. But what if I really want sex?

Depends on how rich you are. Just read 50 shades or ask Trump.

[Kubra]

That makes it seem so easy. But what if I really want sex?

Get a toy.
If you need human contact, find ethical prostitution.

Don’t rape people.

woooosh

[Lanoraie II]

Not rape. Fraud? Maybe. Morally reprehensible? Definitely. Rape only covers the act itself, not the potential side effects of the act. That being said if there was a sexual fraud charge, I'd pin him with that. Lying about having HIV, lying about being infertile, lying about having an STI, maybe even lying about when your last period was are all things that I would not consider rape, but would consider sexual fraud/bodily harm.

[Saiwania]

Not rape. Fraud? Maybe. Morally reprehensible? Definitely. Rape only covers the act itself, not the potential side effects of the act. That being said if there was a sexual fraud charge, I'd pin him with that. Lying about having HIV, lying about being infertile, lying about having an STI, maybe even lying about when your last period was are all things that I would not consider rape, but would consider sexual fraud/bodily harm.

People aren't allowed to lie about HIV status, because intentional transmission of it is criminalized as a felony in a lot of places. Its that serious of a global issue. Forget sex offender registries, I think perhaps what we really need is universal medical testing of everyone in 5 to 10 year intervals and anyone found to have anything permanent that is a threat to the rest of the public, will be outed to everyone else or isolated as needed.

In only a few generations, many diseases could be resolved or controlled in such a way. I'm surprised China as one example, hasn't tried this. I think a lot of success can be had from it.

[Kowani]

Not rape. Fraud? Maybe. Morally reprehensible? Definitely. Rape only covers the act itself, not the potential side effects of the act. That being said if there was a sexual fraud charge, I'd pin him with that. Lying about having HIV, lying about being infertile, lying about having an STI, maybe even lying about when your last period was are all things that I would not consider rape, but would consider sexual fraud/bodily harm.

People aren't allowed to lie about HIV status, because intentional transmission of it is criminalized as a felony in a lot of places. Its that serious of a global issue. Forget sex offender registries, I think perhaps what we really need is universal medical testing of everyone in 5 to 10 year intervals and anyone found to have anything permanent that is a threat to the rest of the public, will be outed to everyone else or isolated as needed.

If the third world wasn’t full of authoritarian “leaders” who’d love this sort of thing to fraudulently imprison political opponents who they can’t just disappear, I don’t think this is a terrible idea, but definitely not one we can implement now, and with a lot of tweaks.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Yeah, that's extremely fucked up. Don't rape people, my friends.

That makes it seem so easy. But what if I really want sex?

Get giggly with a doll/toy or hire someone for 5 minutes

[Drongonia]

Don't know if I'd say it's rape, but it's definitely wrong, disgusting and deceitful and should be punished somehow.

[Forsher]

Ah those heady days of a few weeks ago when I read this...

I'm not sure what my opinion on this is. However, the potential risks of belief shouldn't matter. Either the problem is that there was a lie or some other crime than rape has been committed (assault by means of impregnation? fraud?).

An identical twin or a clone or whatever is definitely rape. I just can't shake the feeling that lying about vasectomies or being on the pill though are, morally, different crimes... but why is that different to the evil doppelganger thought experiment? The totality of the lie?

[The Emerald Legion]

Yeah, that's extremely fucked up. Don't rape people, my friends.

That makes it seem so easy. But what if I really want sex?

Replace your desire for sex with hatred for all living things. Bam. One problem solved. Another started.

[Fartsniffage]

That makes it seem so easy. But what if I really want sex?

Get giggly with a doll/toy or hire someone for 5 minutes

But then I'd need to make small talk for the other four and a half minutes.

[Wallenburg]

Get giggly with a doll/toy or hire someone for 5 minutes

But then I'd need to make small talk for the other four and a half minutes.

Now that is a problem that we really must address. Men shouldn't have to engage with other humans when they just need a few moments of sexy time.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Get giggly with a doll/toy or hire someone for 5 minutes

But then I'd need to make small talk for the other four and a half minutes.

Just stick on the TV, sorted.

[Grimmsland]

He should not have parenthood, legal and social, forced upon him because he was raped. That's disgusting.

The man's consent or lack thereof doesn't abrogate the right of his child to be cared for.

then the child should be confiscated from the rapey woman if she's going to rape, get pregnant and then expect to not foot the bill. plato will raise it and it won't ever have to be subjected to such a sociopathic bitch.

(!) edit: changed my mind. confiscate the child regardless. she'd be a shit mother.

[Wallenburg]

He should not have parenthood, legal and social, forced upon him because he was raped. That's disgusting.

The man's consent or lack thereof doesn't abrogate the right of his child to be cared for.

There are far better candidates for caring for the child than a rape victim.

[Greed and Death]

He should not have parenthood, legal and social, forced upon him because he was raped. That's disgusting.

The man's consent or lack thereof doesn't abrogate the right of his child to be cared for.

That is the law currently now, that doesn't mean the law can not be changed.