Christian Discussion Thread XI: Anicetus’ Revenge

[Lost Memories]

Thanks Lumi for the precisation on RCIA.
So RCIA is actually more fragmented than the catechism of childs, i get the feeling that it being fragmented and individualized does play at its disadvantage.
I would think having a single course where candidates can enter at different points according to their previous understanding would work better, though maybe most courses have a very limited number of participants? (so the worry about keeping all participants on the same boat is not needed, if they are too few or even one at a time)

Blessed the soul of your teacher.

I have fond memories of first communion and confirmation catechism teachers too, all nice old women.
The post confirmation cathecism i got was done by more young teachers, and it was a bit more plain and lacking in comparison. I don't think the main fault in people getting more distant in post confirmation is the quality of the teaching (while at least in my case it was a bit lacking), but that's just how adolescence works, teens flip around their understanding of the world in those years, and many of them trash their children years, with everything those years contained, meaning also their just introduced faith. What is worrying is that many don't ever come back after the trashing.
Later on the priests of my parish did start holding the catechism themselves, that was also very good. Lots of very interesting topics and indepth discussions.

[Diopolis]

I haven't cracked the classics in a while, but I swear I remember a story of all the gods being destroyed and cast into the cosmos.

I vaguely remember something like that being an idea the Stoics had but I'm not sure if it was ever a widespread thing, I certainly don't think it was at least.

That's debatable, actually. There's significant data that contradicts the idea that "Sex ed prevents pregnancies." However, for me the issue is more we're not educating them. We are not giving them a valuable education, producing infantile adults ill equipped to engage in the modern world.

I'd very interested in seeing said data if you could pull it up. I thought the whole "sex ed preventing pregnancies" thing was pretty much set in stone with little to no opposition.

http://public.econ.duke.edu/~psarcidi/teensex.pdf
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/badcathol ... -rate.html
Intro to the topic.
As they both point out, "the teenaged fertility rate/out of wedlock fertility rate" is an extremely complicated thing and there's no simplistic correlation.

[Geneviev]

I saw a cross around the moon a bit ago, which Google couldn't explain. Is it a sign of some sort, do you guys think?

[Northern Davincia]

I saw a cross around the moon a bit ago, which Google couldn't explain. Is it a sign of some sort, do you guys think?

Signs are usually unambiguous, so no.

[Lost Memories]

Some silly clip


And this...

[Narland]

I saw a cross around the moon a bit ago, which Google couldn't explain. Is it a sign of some sort, do you guys think?

Moon dogs are optical tricks of various atmospheric conditions when viewing the moon. Unfortunately the "moon dog" article in Wikipedia is a stub. Meteorologists and even the world's navies have cataloged sun dogs and moon dogs over the centuries. Double and triple moons, halos and crosses are not uncommon.

Your local reference librarian can help you track a good book on the topic. After a cursory look on the internet most articles seem to be parroting the same limited drivel and not a very comprehensive historical analysis. The internet is both a curse and a blessing -- lots of information on the shallow end of the gene pool, but little to no discipline for a full depth of understanding.

When I see sun or moon dogs, St. Elmo's fire, the polar lights, eclipses, meteor showers, or a comet flooding the entire sky with eerie green sword-like light (i used to live out in the woods where light pollution didn't detract from Comet Hyakutake), i give thanks to God for the beauty and wonders of His creation.

The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands --Psalms 19:1
God's invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse. -- Romans 1:20

[Sundiata]

It's time for a more muscular Christianity.

[Jedi Council]

It's time for a more muscular Christianity.

Muscular in what sense?

[Sundiata]

It's time for a more muscular Christianity.

Muscular in what sense?

Figuratively and literally, we need to be more Orthodox about our teachings and we need to promote physical excellence. Strength in principle, strength in practice.

[Jedi Council]

Muscular in what sense?

Figuratively and literally, we need to be more Orthodox about our teachings and we need to promote physical excellence. Strength in principle, strength in practice.

Physical excellence? Why would that be necessary for a muscular Christianity, unless you meant literally having priests with the same muscle tone as the Rock.

The more orthodox and doctrinaire a faith gets, the more people it will alienate.

[Sundiata]

Figuratively and literally, we need to be more Orthodox about our teachings and we need to promote physical excellence. Strength in principle, strength in practice.

Physical excellence? Why would that be necessary for a muscular Christianity, unless you meant literally having priests with the same muscle tone as the Rock.

The more orthodox and doctrinaire a faith gets, the more people it will alienate.

Christ doesn't alienate anyone. It's people who alienate him and have alienated him since he walked amongst us in the flesh. The offer is open to everyone and will always be open to all people but if you don't take it, you don't take it.

God love you.

[Jedi Council]

Physical excellence? Why would that be necessary for a muscular Christianity, unless you meant literally having priests with the same muscle tone as the Rock.

The more orthodox and doctrinaire a faith gets, the more people it will alienate.

Christ doesn't alienate anyone. It's people who alienate him and have alienated him since he walked amongst us in the flesh. The offer is open to everyone and will always be open to all people but if you don't take it, you don't take it.

God love you.

That addresses neither of my points, the first of which was a fairly simple question, but I digress

Notice how I was speaking of the faith itself, and you changed the channel to reference Christ. That's fairly telling.

Moving to what my point actually was, if you think Christianity has not alienated people I am sorry to say you are under a grave misapprehension. Christianity, specifically the large, organized denominations, such as the Catholic Church, has alienated vast swathes of the population of our planet.

Much of that is historical and/or experiential; the crimes of the faithful are many, the crimes of the Church likewise. But alot of it is also the result of outdated doctrines and the Church's failure to adapt to our species every evolving public morality. I understand that the teachings of the faith are what they are, but to say that what is needed is
MORE orthodox, MORE doctrinaire, MORE inflexible teachings, well I am afraid you are already fighting a losing battle.

[Benuty]

Christ doesn't alienate anyone. It's people who alienate him and have alienated him since he walked amongst us in the flesh. The offer is open to everyone and will always be open to all people but if you don't take it, you don't take it.

God love you.

That addresses neither of my points, the first of which was a fairly simple question, but I digress

Notice how I was speaking of the faith itself, and you changed the channel to reference Christ. That's fairly telling.

Moving to what my point actually was, if you think Christianity has not alienated people I am sorry to say you are under a grave misapprehension. Christianity, specifically the large, organized denominations, such as the Catholic Church, has alienated vast swathes of the population of our planet.

Much of that is historical and/or experiential; the crimes of the faithful are many, the crimes of the Church likewise. But alot of it is also the result of outdated doctrines and the Church's failure to adapt to our species every evolving public morality. I understand that the teachings of the faith are what they are, but to say that what is needed is
MORE orthodox, MORE doctrinaire, MORE inflexible teachings, well I am afraid you are already fighting a losing battle.

That is debatable, and not just merely from a cultural perspective. The more dogmatic a group the more likely they are in a sense to survive. There will always be people ready to line up to join the priesthood, the monasteries, the laity, the various programs. A case study for this is Mount Athos which thanks to the collapse of the Soviet Union rebounded in part because people didn't have faith in a dead system where religion was on the obscure, the hushed, the personal affair of the household.

[The Archregimancy]

That is debatable, and not just merely from a cultural perspective. The more dogmatic a group the more likely they are in a sense to survive. There will always be people ready to line up to join the priesthood, the monasteries, the laity, the various programs. A case study for this is Mount Athos which thanks to the collapse of the Soviet Union rebounded in part because people didn't have faith in a dead system where religion was on the obscure, the hushed, the personal affair of the household.

Important point here - the collapse of the Soviet Union was not the primary reason for the revival of Mount Athos. It played some part, but a comparatively minor one. Two subsidiary points: of the 20 ruling monasteries, 17 are primarily, though not exclusively, Greek; and the low point for Athos was reached in the early 70s, when the number of monks fell to roughly 1000, so the subsequent revival was already well underway by the collapse of communism in the late 80s/early 90s.

Pantaleimon (the 'Rossikon') is traditionally primarily Russian, Chilander is primarily Serbian, and Zografou is primarily Bulgarian. The others are primarily Greek, though Iviron was historically primarily Georgian, and there are three (I think) Romanian houses among the sketes (lesser houses below the level of the ruling monasteries). The collapse of communism undoubtedly had a role in the revival of the three monasteries (and those sketes) with links to previously communist countries, but another significant factor was the end of a cack-handed 1990s attempt by the Ecumenical Patriarchate and Greek government to suppress the arrival of non-Greek monks on Athos and turn the Holy Mountain into a Greek Orthodox bastion in contrast to its historical role as a pan-Orthodox institution (note that all of the monasteries come under the jurisdiction of the Ecumenical Patriarchate regardless of the origin of the resident monks). So those two factors went hand in hand for the non-Greek houses.

With the Greek monasteries and sketes, the situation is more complicated. Part of it seems to have been a genuine revival in interest in monasticism amongst Greeks (especially following the 1960s 1000-year anniversary of the formal foundation of Athonite monasticism), a revival of interest among the Greek diaspora, an important revival in Athonite discipline, and - rather unfortunately - a decline in the population of other important monastic houses in Greece that had turned into tourist attractions. This was most evident in the Meteora, traditionally one of the most important centres of Greek monasticism, but where many of the houses are down to single residents. Welcoming carefully controlled numbers of pilgrims is one thing, but becoming a major tourist attraction is more than a little distracting for a monastic vocation. Athos can guarantee disconnection with the secular world in a way that many other monasteries can't - something which I know from personal experience, having visited four Athonite monasteries (Gregoriou, Iviron, the Great Lavra, and Philotheou).

[Jedi Council]

That addresses neither of my points, the first of which was a fairly simple question, but I digress

Notice how I was speaking of the faith itself, and you changed the channel to reference Christ. That's fairly telling.

Moving to what my point actually was, if you think Christianity has not alienated people I am sorry to say you are under a grave misapprehension. Christianity, specifically the large, organized denominations, such as the Catholic Church, has alienated vast swathes of the population of our planet.

Much of that is historical and/or experiential; the crimes of the faithful are many, the crimes of the Church likewise. But alot of it is also the result of outdated doctrines and the Church's failure to adapt to our species every evolving public morality. I understand that the teachings of the faith are what they are, but to say that what is needed is
MORE orthodox, MORE doctrinaire, MORE inflexible teachings, well I am afraid you are already fighting a losing battle.

That is debatable, and not just merely from a cultural perspective. The more dogmatic a group the more likely they are in a sense to survive. There will always be people ready to line up to join the priesthood, the monasteries, the laity, the various programs. A case study for this is Mount Athos which thanks to the collapse of the Soviet Union rebounded in part because people didn't have faith in a dead system where religion was on the obscure, the hushed, the personal affair of the household.

Oh no doubt, more intense, narrow beliefs tend to survive fine but they also generally tend to be much, much smaller and less influential as their dogmatic approach pushes away anyone who is more open minded.

[New Visayan Islands]

Friendly reminder that today, September 8th (it's already the 8th here in the Philippines, bite me) is the Feast of the Nativity of Mary.

[Lost Memories]

Lucky Philippines getting all the feasts early.

It shouldn't be a day of required mass attendance, but i wonder if there are some special public celebrations in some places.

When I see sun or moon dogs, St. Elmo's fire, the polar lights, eclipses, meteor showers, or a comet flooding the entire sky with eerie green sword-like light (i used to live out in the woods where light pollution didn't detract from Comet Hyakutake), i give thanks to God for the beauty and wonders of His creation.

The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands --Psalms 19:1
God's invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse. -- Romans 1:20

Yeah, the world is full of wonder.
It's a shame some people are too stressed and act only on their survival instinct, making them notice only the worst, and not the best.


@Jedi Council
Truth isn't something which changes with trends.
Being orthodox about values and traditions is something which adds validity.
The priority for christianity is following truth, not trends.

On that matter, sometimes maybe there is confusion over the immutability of God.
God is immutable, because perfection can't get any more perfect, and because God can't get less perfect, so the perfection of God remains stable and immutated.
But humans aren't perfect, and they do change, sometime they grow, sometimes they regress. (like how there is this trend now about idolizing pagan Athens, which is just regressive)
So since God and humans are into relation, where one of the two sides is immutable, while the other side changes over time, the relation between God and humanity then changes too, because of the influence humans have on the relation. But God is always the same.

There is also the part about the immutability being about the nature of God, and not meaning God doesn't react to events. But i'm less sure about that part.

[Lost Memories]

And talking about odd mentions of muscularity about religious matters, i've come across this image/meme which seems weirdly fitting

Caption: "If God is real, then why do bad things happen?"

[Empirical Switzerland]

Friendly reminder that today, September 8th (it's already the 8th here in the Philippines, bite me) is the Feast of the Nativity of Mary.

Good for you.

[Reploid Productions]

Lol, found this, thought mist Christians would agree, like me.

[Reploid Productions]

Lol, found this, thought mist Christians would agree, like me.
([url=https://i.ibb.co/vsBr6Tr/87-DE3329-EFBB-4-AEF-9042-73-B6-D1-C7-F8-C4.jpg]Image)[/url]

*** Empirical Switzerland, 3-day ban for trolling. *** You have a very bad habit of trying to call people who have differing opinions from yours "dumb" or "mentally disordered." That is not how we argue our opinions here. Either you can learn to be civil and follow the site rules, or you can ultimately end up being escorted off the site.


~Evil Forum Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Mod
~She who wields the Banhammer; master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku

[Lord Dominator]

Thank you Reppy for that.

[Tarsonis]

So how are y'all going to celebrate the 12th of September?

[Salus Maior]

So how are y'all going to celebrate the 12th of September?

Probably by being hip deep in college work and living in the college library.

[Tarsonis]

So how are y'all going to celebrate the 12th of September?

Probably by being hip deep in college work and living in the college library.

Treasure these moments. You'll miss them when they're gone.