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[SUBMITTED] Neither Pink Nor Blue

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Hediacrana
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[SUBMITTED] Neither Pink Nor Blue

Postby Hediacrana » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:41 pm

Draft 2.5.

TITLE:

Neither Pink Nor Blue

DESCRIPTION:

After several other countries in @@REGION@@ recently introduced passports with gender designations other than male or female, civil rights campaigners are now petitioning your office to revise the available gender markers on @@ADJECTIVE@@ identification documents as well.

OPTION ONE

"Forcing everyone to officially identify as either male or female is really quite restrictive," explains petitioner Tabby Mouthfeel, absentmindedly playing with a human skull while listening to some synthwave. "Think of gender as being more like a spectrum, with all kinds of gorgeous shades between and beyond those two possibilities. Non-binary genders may be relatively uncommon, but that's no reason to sweep them under the cisheteropatriarchal rug and pretend they don't exist! Why not provide passport applicants with a write-in space in addition to the established two options?"

Effect: the number of officially recognized gender designations is gradually approaching the number of @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@

OPTION TWO

"Political correctness gone amok!" scoffs red-faced @@RANDOMNAME@@, president of the conservative @@CAPITAL@@ Family Values Institute. "You know, if you start showing acceptance to this bunch, you'll only encourage others to join their ranks, and before you know it, we'll be a liberal hellscape just like Brancaland!" @@HE@@ shudders. "No, we need to make sure that our school curriculums are clear that a person's gender is either male or female and determined at conception by his or her chromosomes. No need to confuse the kids with details like intersex conditions and what have you."

Effect: school children are taught that boys will be boys and girls will be girls

OPTION THREE

"We could make this much simpler," muses @@RANDOMNAME@@, a free-thinking official at the @@ADJECTIVE@@ Bureau of Statistics. "I don't see why the government should bother to register people's gender in the first place. I mean, why keep track of differences that we all agree shouldn't matter? Plus, it should simplify our record-keeping, which is always a good thing, right?"

Effect: statisticians have no idea how to determine whether a gender pay gap still exists

TITLE:

Neither Pink Nor Blue

DESCRIPTION:

Last week, a visitor from Brancaland was the first to enter @@NAME@@ on a passport with a gender designation other than male or female. Emboldened by the traction that this story got in several media outlets, civil rights campaigners are now petitioning your office to revise the available gender markers on @@ADJECTIVE@@ identification documents as well.

OPTION ONE

"I just love to get oot and aboot with my new passport!" exclaims Jessie Bieber, the Brancalandian in question, sporting a unisex parka adorned with a maple-shaped button that reads "They/Them/Theirs." "For folks like me, having official documents identifying us as either 'male' or 'female' is a total gong show. Gender is more like a spectrum, with all kinds of possibilities between and beyond just those two points. Why not provide your citizens with an alternative option, like a write-in space, in addition to the established two genders, eh?"

Effect: the number of officially recognized gender designations is gradually approaching the number of @@DEMONYM@@

OPTION TWO

"We could make this much simpler," muses @@RANDOMNAME@@, a free-thinking official at the @@ADJECTIVE@@ Bureau of Statistics. "I don't see why the government should bother to register people's gender in the first place. I mean, why keep track of differences that we all agree shouldn't matter? Plus, it should simplify our record-keeping, which is always a good thing, right?"

Effect: statisticians have no idea how to determine whether a gender pay gap still exists

OPTION THREE

"Political correctness gone amok!" scoffs red-faced @@RANDOMNAME@@, president of the conservative @@CAPITAL@@ Family Values Institute. "You know, if you start showing acceptance to this bunch, you'll only encourage others to join their ranks, and before you know it, we'll become a liberal hellscape just like Brancaland!" He shudders. "No, we need to make sure that our school curriculums are clear that a person's gender is either male or female and determined at conception by his or her chromosomes. No need to confuse the kids with details like intersex conditions and what have you."

Effect: school children are taught that boys will be boys and girls will be girls

TITLE:

Neither Pink Nor Blue


DESCRIPTION:

Last week, a visitor from Brancaland was the first to enter @@NAME@@ with a passport marked O for "other" instead of M for "male" or F for "female." Emboldened by the traction that this story got in some progressive media outlets, civil rights campaigners are now petitioning your office to introduce additional gender options on @@ADJECTIVE@@ identification documents as well.


OPTION ONE

"I just love to get oot and aboot with my new passport!" exclaims Jessie Bieber, the Brancalandian in question, sporting a plaid toque adorned with a maple-shaped button that reads "They/Them/Theirs." "Having official documentation that reflects who I am is really affirming and helpful. Seeing as you @@DEMONYM@@ are such a fair-minded lot, I bet you would see the benefits of introducing a non-binary gender option for your own citizens too, eh?"

Effect: old passports are repurposed as confetti for @@CAPITAL@@ Pride

OPTION TWO

"Why stop at three options?" rhetorically inquires prominent transgender WhoTube personality Tabby Mouthfeel. "There are dozens, no, hundreds of valid genders out there. We may be minorities, but that does not mean it's okay to sweep us under the cisheteropatriarchal rug and systematically erase our existence! It is up to people themselves to decide how they identify. Birth certificates, passports and identity cards should express that truth in all its glorious diversity."

Effect: the number of available gender markers for @@ADJECTIVE@@ passports is gradually approaching the number of @@DEMONYM@@

OPTION THREE

"We could make this much simpler," muses @@RANDOMNAME@@, a free-thinking official at the @@ADJECTIVE@@ Bureau of Statistics. "I don't see why the government should bother to register people's gender in the first place. I mean, why keep track of differences that we all agree shouldn't matter? Plus, it should simplify our record-keeping, which is always a good thing, right?"

Effect: statisticians have no idea how to determine whether a gender pay gap still exists

OPTION FOUR

"Political correctness gone amok!" scoffs red-faced @@RANDOMNAME@@, president of the conservative @@CAPITAL@@ Family Values Institute. "You know, if you start showing acceptance to this bunch, you'll only encourage others to join their ranks, and before you know it, we'll become a liberal hellscape just like Brancaland!" He shudders. "No, we need to make sure that our school curriculums are clear that a person's gender is either male or female and determined at conception by his or her chromosomes. No need to confuse the kids with details like intersex conditions and what have you."

Effect: school children are taught that boys will be boys and girls will be girls

TITLE:

Neither Pink Nor Blue


VALIDITY:

Citizens can change their legal gender; that is, nation has gone with the first option of issue 66 (alternatively, if adding a policy or permanent marker to that effect is deemed unfeasible by the editors: high personal freedom, high inclusion, low conservatism).


DESCRIPTION:

Transgender campaigners have petitioned the government to enable citizens to change their gender designation on official documents - not from male to female or vice versa, but to a new, third gender.


OPTION ONE

"It's about equality," states androgynous-looking petitioner Jessie Rivera, wearing a purple button that reads "They/Them/Theirs." "The current passport application process requires intersex and nonbinary folks to declare whether they are male or female, even if they don't identify as either! We may be a minority, but that does not mean it's right to sweep us under the rug and force us to hide who we are. It is time for @@NAME@@ to allow third gender designations on its birth certificates, passports and identity cards."

Effect: old passports are repurposed as confetti for @@CAPITAL@@ Pride

OPTION TWO

"Political correctness gone amok!" scoffs @@RANDOMNAME@@, president of the conservative @@CAPITAL@@ Family Values Institute. "You know, if you start showing acceptance to this bunch, you'll only encourage others to join their ranks. Instead, we need to make sure that our school curriculums are clear that a person's gender is either male or female and determined at conception by his or her chromosomes. No need to confuse the kids with details like intersex conditions and what have you."

Effect: school children are taught that boys will be boys and girls will be girls

OPTION THREE

"We could make this much simpler," muses @@RANDOMNAME@@, a nonconformist intern at the @@ADJECTIVE@@ Bureau of Statistics. "I don't see why the government should bother to register people's gender in the first place. I mean, why keep track of differences that we all agree shouldn't matter? Plus, it should simplify our record-keeping, which is always a good thing, right?"

Effect: statisticians have no idea how to determine whether a gender pay gap still exists

TITLE:

Neither Pink Nor Blue


VALIDITY:

Citizens can change their legal gender; that is, nation has gone with the first option of issue 66. Alternatively, if adding a policy or permanent marker to that effect is deemed unfeasible by the editors: high personal freedom, high inclusion, low conservatism.


DESCRIPTION:

Transgender campaigners have petitioned the government to enable citizens to change their gender designation on official documents - not from male to female or vice versa, but to a new, third gender.


OPTION ONE

"It's about equality," states androgynous-looking petitioner Jessie Rivera, wearing a purple button that reads "They/Them/Theirs." "The current passport application process requires intersex and nonbinary folks to declare whether they are male or female, even if they don't identify as either! We may be a minority, but that does not mean it's right to sweep us under the rug and force us to hide who we are. It is time for @@NAME@@ to allow third gender designations on its birth certificates, passports and identity cards."

Effect: old passports are repurposed as confetti for @@CAPITAL@@ Pride

OPTION TWO

"Political correctness gone amok!" scoffs @@RANDOMMALENAME@@, president of the conservative @@CAPITAL@@ Family Values Institute. "You know, if you start showing acceptance to this bunch, you'll only encourage others to join their ranks. Instead, we need to make sure that our school curriculums are clear that a person's gender is either male or female and determined at conception by his or her chromosomes. No need to confuse the kids with details like intersex conditions and what have you."

Effect: school children are taught that boys will be boys and girls will be girls

OPTION THREE

"We could make this much simpler," muses @@RANDOMNAME@@, a nonconformist intern at the @@ADJECTIVE@@ Bureau of Statistics. "I don't see why the government should bother to register people's gender in the first place. I mean, why keep track of differences that we all agree shouldn't matter? Plus, it should simplify our record-keeping, which is always a good thing, right?"

Effect: statisticians have no idea how to determine whether a gender pay gap still exists

TITLE:

Neither Pink Nor Blue


VALIDITY:

Citizens can change their legal gender; that is, nation has gone with the first option of issue 66. Alternatively, if adding a policy or permanent marker to that effect is deemed unfeasible by the editors: high personal freedom, high inclusion, low conservatism.


DESCRIPTION:

Transgender campaigners have petitioned the government to enable citizens to change their gender designation on official documents - not from male to female or vice versa, but to a new, third gender.


OPTION ONE

"It's about equality," states androgynous-looking petitioner Jessie Rivera, wearing a purple button that reads "They/Them/Theirs." "The current passport application process requires intersex and nonbinary folks to declare whether they are male or female, even if they don't identify as either! We may be a minority, but that does not mean it's right to swipe us under the rug and force us to hide who we are. It is time for @@NAME@@ to allow third gender designations on its birth certificates, passports and identity cards."

Effect: the passport application form lists dozens of different gender options

OPTION TWO

"Our government IDs are fine just as they are!" objects @@RANDOMMALENAME@@, president of the conservative @@CAPITAL@@ Family Values Institute. "You know, if you start showing acceptance to this bunch, you'll only encourage others to join their ranks. Instead, we need to make sure that our school curriculums are clear that a person's gender is either male or female and determined at conception by his or her chromosomes. No need to confuse the kids with details like intersex conditions and what have you."

Effect: school children are taught that boys will be boys and girls will be girls

OPTION THREE

"We could make this much simpler," muses @@RANDOMNAME@@, a nonconformist intern at the @@ADJECTIVE@@ Bureau of Statistics. "I don't see why the government should bother to register people's gender in the first place. I mean, why keep track of differences that we all agree shouldn't matter? Plus, it should simplify our record-keeping, which is always a good thing, right?"

Effect: statisticians have no idea how to determine whether a gender pay gap still exists

TITLE:

Unconventional IDs


VALIDITY:

Citizens can change their legal gender; that is, nation has gone with the first option of issue 66. Alternatively, if adding a policy or permanent marker to that effect is deemed unfeasible by the editors: high personal freedom, high inclusion, low conservatism.


DESCRIPTION:

Transgender campaigners have petitioned the government to enable citizens to change their gender designation on official documents - not from male to female or vice versa, but to a new, third gender.


OPTION ONE

"Gender is not just pink or blue," states androgynous-looking petitioner Jessie Rivera, wearing a purple button that reads "They/Them/Theirs." "The current passport application process forces intersex and nonbinary folks to declare whether they are male or female, even if they don't identify as either! In the name of equality and inclusion, it is time for @@NAME@@ to allow third gender designations on its birth certificates, passports and identity cards."

Effect: the new passport application form lists dozens of different gender options


OPTION TWO

"Our government IDs are fine just as they are!" counters @@RANDOMMALENAME@@, president of the conservative @@CAPITAL@@ Family Values Institute. "If you start showing acceptance to this tiny minority, you'll only encourage others to join their ranks. Instead, we need to make sure that our school curriculums are clear that a person's gender is either male or female and determined at conception by his or her chromosomes. No need to trouble the kids with confusing details like intersex conditions and what have you."

Effect: school children are taught that boys will be boys and girls will be girls


OPTION THREE

"We could make this much simpler," muses @@RANDOMNAME@@, a nonconformist intern at the @@ADJECTIVE@@ Bureau of Statistics. "I don't see why the government should bother to register people's gender in the first place. I mean, why keep track of differences that we all agree shouldn't matter? Plus, it should simplify our record-keeping, which is always a good thing, right?"

Effect: statisticians have no idea how to determine whether a gender pay gap still exists

TITLE:

Neither Pink Nor Blue


VALIDITY:

Citizens can change their legal gender; that is, nation has gone with the first option of issue 66. Alternatively, if adding a policy or permanent marker to that effect is deemed unfeasible by the editors: high personal freedom, high inclusion, low conservatism.


DESCRIPTION:

Transgender campaigners have petitioned the government to enable citizens to change their gender designation on official documents - not from male to female or vice versa, but to a new, third gender.


OPTION ONE

"It's about recognition," states androgynous-looking petitioner Jessie Rivera, wearing a purple T-shirt that reads "They/Them/Theirs." "The current passport application process forces intersex and nonbinary folks to declare whether they are male or female, even if they don't identify as either! In the name of equality and inclusion, it is time for @@NAME@@ to allow third gender designations on its birth certificates, passports and identity cards."

Effect: passport applicants can now choose from over one hundred different gender options


OPTION TWO

"Political correctness gone amok!" scoffs @@RANDOMMALENAME@@, president of the conservative @@CAPITAL@@ Family Values Institute. "If you start showing acceptance to this tiny minority, that will only encourage others to follow in their footsteps. Official documents ought to reflect the obvious, basic fact that a person's gender is either male or female and determined at conception by the individual's sex characteristics. Or their genetics. Or their chromosomes. Or something like that."

Effect: the government maintains that boys will be boys and girls will be girls


OPTION THREE

"We could make this much simpler," muses @@RANDOMNAME@@, a nonconformist intern at the @@ADJECTIVE@@ Department of Statistics. "I don't see why the government should bother to register people's gender in the first place. I mean, why keep track of differences that we all agree shouldn't matter? Plus, it should simplify our record-keeping, which is always a good thing, right?"

Effect: statisticians have no idea how to determine whether a gender pay gap still exists

TITLE:

Neither Pink Nor Blue


VALIDITY:

Citizens can change their legal gender; that is, nation has gone with the first option of issue 66. Alternatively, if adding a policy or permanent marker to that effect is deemed unfeasible by the editors: high personal freedom, high inclusion, low conservatism.


DESCRIPTION:

Transgender campaigners have petitioned the government to enable citizens to change their gender designation on official documents - not from male to female or vice versa, but to a new, third gender.

OPTION ONE

"Gender is not just pink or blue," states androgynous-looking petitioner @@RANDOMGENDERNEUTRALNAME@@, wearing a purple button that reads "They/Them/Theirs." "The current passport application process forces intersex and nonbinary folks to declare whether they are male or female - even if they don't identify as either! In the name of equality and inclusion, it is time for @@NAME@@ to allow a third gender designation on its birth certificates, passports and identity cards."

Effect: people are classified as 'male', 'female', or 'other'

OPTION TWO

"Political correctness gone amok!" scoffs @@RANDOMNAME@@, president of the conservative @@CAPITAL@@ Family Values Institute. "Listen, @@LEADER@@, if you start showing acceptance to this tiny minority, that will only encourage others to follow in their footsteps. No! Official documents ought to reflect the obvious, basic fact that a person's gender is either male or female and determined at conception by the individual's sex characteristics. Or their genetics. Or their chromosomes. Or something like that."

Effect: the government maintains that boys will be boys and girls will be girls

OPTION THREE

"We could make this much simpler," muses @@RANDOMNAME@@, a nonconformist intern at the @@NAME@@ Department of Statistics. "I don't see why the government should bother to register people's gender in the first place. I mean, why keep track of differences that we all agree shouldn't matter? Plus, it ought to simplify our record-keeping, which is always a good thing, right?"

Effect: statisticians have no idea how to determine whether a gender pay gap still exists

Changes from 2.3. to draft 2.4: Option 1: 'prominent whotube personality' -> 'petitioner'.
Changes from 2.3. to draft 2.4: The Bieber is out and the Mouthfeel is back in.
Changes from 2.2. to draft 2.3: Following CWA's feedback, I combined the first two options, making it one in which the speaker asks for all documents to have three options: male, female, or a write-in space. Also de-emphasized the transgender part, and included reference to the gender spectrum.
Changes from 2.1. to draft 2.2: Made the second speaker a Contrapoints reference, and named the first speaker Jessie Bieber (a unisex first name with a very recognizably Canadian last name). Switched the final two options.
Changes from Version 1.6 to draft 2.1: I received feedback that I need to include an option to allow many different possible gender markers, and that the whole issue could use a bit more humour to make it more interesting. The introduction now speaks of a Brancalandian tourist, who is the speaker in a new first option. The second (formerly first) option has been reworked; minor changes in the latter two options.
Changes from draft 5 to draft 6: Changes in second option; some of which reverted after feedback.

Changes from draft 4 to draft 5: Changed the first effect line, and the first sentence of the second option.

Changes from draft 3 to draft 4: Changed the title back; rephrased second and third options.

Changes from draft 2 to draft 3: I changed the title. Also, because I realized that the second option was functionally not different from dismissing the issue, I rewrote it so that it now has effects beyond keeping government IDs as they are. Finally, I also slightly altered the first option and its effect line.

Last edited by Hediacrana on Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:51 pm, edited 153 times in total.
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Postby Tinhampton » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:44 pm

Hediacrana wrote:staticians

I presume you mean "statisticians," unless you intended to give off the effect that @@NATION@@'s Census gurus are actually couch potatoes in disguise...
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Postby Hediacrana » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:48 pm

Tinhampton wrote:
Hediacrana wrote:staticians

I presume you mean "statisticians," unless you intended to give off the effect that @@NATION@@'s Census gurus are actually couch potatoes in disguise...

Thanks, I corrected it.
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Postby Australian rePublic » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:05 pm

You're effects need to be humourous. Also, option 3 effect- what's gender pay gap gotta do with the price of fish? Also, option 2- what about intersex people?
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Postby The Sherpa Empire » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:19 pm

It's a bit repetitious to refer to the gender binary as "pink or blue" in both the title and the first option. I would suggest changing one of them.
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Postby Sacara » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:54 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:Also, option 3 effect- what's gender pay gap gotta do with the price of fish?

That's the first time I've heard 'fish' used. Usually, I hear 'the price of tea in China'. I assume because they no longer keep track of who's male/female/other, they can't track the pay gap.
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Postby Chan Island » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:22 pm

Hello and welcome to Got Issues? ! We hope you will enjoy your stay.

This is generally a good draft, especially for a first timer. Will monitor.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=513597&p=39401766#p39401766
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Postby Hediacrana » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:29 am

Thanks all for the feedback so far!

Australian rePublic wrote:You're effects need to be humourous. Also, option 3 effect- what's gender pay gap gotta do with the price of fish? Also, option 2- what about intersex people?

See Sacara's answer, above. And about option 2, that the government denies/ignores the existence of intersex (and nonbinary) people is precisely the point of that option. I'm open to suggestions to make it more funny, though my understanding is that not each of them needs to be a joke, per se.

The Sherpa Empire wrote:It's a bit repetitious to refer to the gender binary as "pink or blue" in both the title and the first option. I would suggest changing one of them.


Yes, I did think that. I'll have to come up with a different title. Again, I'm open to suggestions.

Chan Island wrote:Hello and welcome to Got Issues? ! We hope you will enjoy your stay.

This is generally a good draft, especially for a first timer. Will monitor.


Thank you!
Last edited by Hediacrana on Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:49 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Australian rePublic » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:18 pm

Sacara wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Also, option 3 effect- what's gender pay gap gotta do with the price of fish?

That's the first time I've heard 'fish' used. Usually, I hear 'the price of tea in China'. I assume because they no longer keep track of who's male/female/other, they can't track the pay gap.

Yea, I got that part. Let me rephrase that:
The gender pay gap is a completely different discussion which has nothing to do with this issue and should not be mentiojed here
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Postby The Sherpa Empire » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:59 am

Australian rePublic wrote:
Sacara wrote:That's the first time I've heard 'fish' used. Usually, I hear 'the price of tea in China'. I assume because they no longer keep track of who's male/female/other, they can't track the pay gap.

Yea, I got that part. Let me rephrase that:
The gender pay gap is a completely different discussion which has nothing to do with this issue and should not be mentiojed here


What harm is it doing by mentioning the pay gap?
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Postby Australian rePublic » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:46 pm

The Sherpa Empire wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Yea, I got that part. Let me rephrase that:
The gender pay gap is a completely different discussion which has nothing to do with this issue and should not be mentiojed here


What harm is it doing by mentioning the pay gap?

Extreme irrelevance. By mentioning the pay gao, you should be honest and mention the number of male homeless people
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Postby The Sherpa Empire » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:49 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
The Sherpa Empire wrote:
What harm is it doing by mentioning the pay gap?

Extreme irrelevance. By mentioning the pay gao, you should be honest and mention the number of male homeless people


And what's male homelessness have to do with the price of tea in the Sherpa Empire? It's an effect line, not a treatise on economic justice.
༄༅། །འགྲོ་བ་མི་རིགས་ག་ར་དབང་ཆ་འདྲ་མཉམ་འབད་སྒྱེཝ་ལས་ག་ར་གིས་གཅིག་གིས་གཅིག་ལུ་སྤུན་ཆའི་དམ་ཚིག་བསྟན་དགོས།
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Postby Australian rePublic » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:02 pm

The Sherpa Empire wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Extreme irrelevance. By mentioning the pay gao, you should be honest and mention the number of male homeless people


And what's male homelessness have to do with the price of tea in the Sherpa Empire? It's an effect line, not a treatise on economic justice.

My point is that mentioning homelessness is about as relevant as mentioning pay gaps
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Postby The Sherpa Empire » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:47 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:
The Sherpa Empire wrote:
And what's male homelessness have to do with the price of tea in the Sherpa Empire? It's an effect line, not a treatise on economic justice.

My point is that mentioning homelessness is about as relevant as mentioning pay gaps


But you haven't explained what is actually wrong with the pay gap reference, and you haven't suggested another effect line that would work better.
༄༅། །འགྲོ་བ་མི་རིགས་ག་ར་དབང་ཆ་འདྲ་མཉམ་འབད་སྒྱེཝ་ལས་ག་ར་གིས་གཅིག་གིས་གཅིག་ལུ་སྤུན་ཆའི་དམ་ཚིག་བསྟན་དགོས།
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Hediacrana
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Postby Hediacrana » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:04 pm

I'm grateful for your feedback, Australian eRepublic, but I believe that cause, effect and relevancy are all actually quite clear here (and Sacara and Sherpa's posts seem to support that view).

As it happens, the other day I came across this old news article on a high court ruling enabling an 'other' gender option in Australia (of all places ;) ) which also uses the wage gap as an example of something that we actually do need information on people's gender for (Quote: "And of course, there are situations where we want to know a person's sex or gender for the purposes of removing discrimination and furthering human rights: for example, how can we know the extent of the wage gap otherwise?"). So I don't think my current effect line is far-fetched.

In the end, I'm afraid I simply just don't agree with you that this effect is a bad choice, so I'm choosing not to follow your recommendation in this case. That said, I do thank your your willingness to think along on this! :)

------

Are there any other recommendations for improvement, particularly concerning the title? I like the first line of the first option, but I need another title if I'm going to keep that.
Last edited by Hediacrana on Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Frieden-und Freudenland » Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:21 am

Hello Hediacrana!

You have a nice issue here. :clap:

  • I think you have a good title, though I have to say that I have always personally disliked the cultural association between colors and genders.
    I think an alternative title could be something like "The Third Way" or maybe "Devil and the Deep Blue Sea" (in the sense that the current gender classification forces people to choose between two undesirable alternatives and the issue is about whether a third alternative should be offered.) But I am not sure if these titles are any funnier than the one you have, so it's your call, ultimately.
  • I don't think @@RANDOMGENDERNEUTRALNAME@@ is a macro included in the game, though we may need feedback from an editor to be certain. I'd recommend, though, that you pick a fixed unisex name for this option like Robin or Jordan.

Nice issue, well-done. :)
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Postby Baggieland » Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:58 am

Frieden-und Freudenland wrote:I don't think @@RANDOMGENDERNEUTRALNAME@@ is a macro included in the game, though we may need feedback from an editor to be certain.


No, it isn't. :)

Just use a gender neutral name like Hilary or Alex.
Last edited by Baggieland on Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Hediacrana » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:22 pm

Frieden-und Freudenland wrote:Hello Hediacrana!

You have a nice issue here. :clap:

Thanks, I'm glad you like it!

Frieden-und Freudenland wrote:I think you have a good title, though I have to say that I have always personally disliked the cultural association between colors and genders.
I think an alternative title could be something like "The Third Way" or maybe "Devil and the Deep Blue Sea" (in the sense that the current gender classification forces people to choose between two undesirable alternatives and the issue is about whether a third alternative should be offered.) But I am not sure if these titles are any funnier than the one you have, so it's your call, ultimately.

Yes, I also like the current title; the problem is just that the first sentence of the first option also uses that phrase (and I like the sequence of pink, blue, purple there). I'm thinking of maybe replacing the title with some pun with 'ID' ('An original ID'?) in it, or something with '... beyond the binary' (needs another appropriate word starting with a B...). I'll have to think it over for a bit.

Frieden-und Freudenland wrote:I don't think @@RANDOMGENDERNEUTRALNAME@@ is a macro included in the game, though we may need feedback from an editor to be certain. I'd recommend, though, that you pick a fixed unisex name for this option like Robin or Jordan.

Baggieland wrote:No, it isn't. :)

Just use a gender neutral name like Hilary or Alex.

Good to know, I'll try to come up with an appropriate alternative. And once I have that, I'll put up the second draft.
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Postby Sacara » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:36 am

I've been following the development of this draft for a bit, and I like where it is going. Here are a few suggestions:

Hediacrana wrote:Transgender campaigners have petitioned the government to enable citizens to change their gender designation on official documents - not from male to female or vice versa, but to a new, third gender.

My only comment on the description is maybe chaning the comma after versa to a dash to keep the style consistent. Nothing looks off, however.

Hediacrana wrote:"Gender is not just pink or blue," states androgynous-looking petitioner @@RANDOMGENDERNEUTRALNAME@@, wearing a purple button that reads "They/Them/Theirs." "The current passport application process forces intersex and nonbinary folks to declare whether they are male or female - even if they don't identify as either! In the name of equality and inclusion, it is time for @@NAME@@ to allow a third gender designation on its birth certificates, passports and identity cards."

The first sentence just repeats the title. Instead of listing three set in stone things, maybe leave the third one to be something more ambiguous and adds humor?

Hediacrana wrote:Effect: people are classified as 'male', 'female', or 'other'

This tells me what I just read. Effects should be more humorous. "there are over one hundred different gender possibilities on the latest @@DEMONYM@@ passport" or something.

Hediacrana wrote:"Political correctness gone amok!" scoffs @@RANDOMNAME@@, president of the conservative @@CAPITAL@@ Family Values Institute. "Listen, @@LEADER@@, if you start showing acceptance to this tiny minority, that will only encourage others to follow in their footsteps. No! Official documents ought to reflect the obvious, basic fact that a person's gender is either male or female and determined at conception by the individual's sex characteristics. Or their genetics. Or their chromosomes. Or something like that."

The speaker should be @@RANDOMMALENAME@@, tbh. You don't need the first part of the sentence. That should be it. You can cut No! out. I don't quite get the end and all those 'or's.

Hediacrana wrote:Effect: the government maintains that boys will be boys and girls will be girls

Nothing to comment here.

Hediacrana wrote:"We could make this much simpler," muses @@RANDOMNAME@@, a nonconformist intern at the @@NAME@@ Department of Statistics. "I don't see why the government should bother to register people's gender in the first place. I mean, why keep track of differences that we all agree shouldn't matter? Plus, it ought to simplify our record-keeping, which is always a good thing, right?"

The department will read "Sacara Department of Statistics". Maybe @@DEMONYM@@ instead? I can tell you use the word 'ought' a lot. Change it to 'will' so not every speaker speaks the exact same way.

Hediacrana wrote:Effect: statisticians have no idea how to determine whether a gender pay gap still exists

As stated earlier in this thread, I like this effect line.
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Postby Hediacrana » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:56 am

Thanks for your input, Sacara, that was really helpful! I won't address each of your points here, but will return to some in a later post, and just work others into the upcoming draft.

Sacara wrote:The first sentence just repeats the title.

Okay, see the version of the first option, below: I changed the first sentence, used a fix unisex name, and made 'designation' in the last line plural so that I can go with your suggestion for the proposed effect line (underlined text). Do you think it works like this? If the start still works, I can leave the title intact.

"It's about recognition," states androgynous-looking petitioner Jessie Rivera, wearing a purple button that reads "They/Them/Theirs." "The current passport application process forces intersex and nonbinary folks to declare whether they are male or female, even if they don't identify as either! In the name of equality and inclusion, it is time for @@NAME@@ to allow third gender designations on its birth certificates, passports and identity cards."


About those identity cards:

Sacara wrote:Instead of listing three set in stone things, maybe leave the third one to be something more ambiguous and adds humor?

Such as what? I'd definitely like to make the end more humourous, so I'd like to have a better idea bout what direction you're thinking of.
Last edited by Hediacrana on Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Hediacrana » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:45 am

New draft is up!
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Postby Frieden-und Freudenland » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:28 pm

Nice draft :)

I see that Option 1 asks for "third gender designations" but the person also campaigns for "they/them/their," which can be used for this purpose. So the effect line surprised me a bit, as I hadn't seen so many gender designations coming. Maybe the speaker in Option 1 should explicitly say that they demand multiple gender designations, and not just one umbrella term for anyone who doesn't identify as either male or female?
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Postby Sacara » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:43 pm

Frieden-und Freudenland wrote:Nice draft :)

I see that Option 1 asks for "third gender designations" but the person also campaigns for "they/them/their," which can be used for this purpose. So the effect line surprised me a bit, as I hadn't seen so many gender designations coming. Maybe the speaker in Option 1 should explicitly say that they demand multiple gender designations, and not just one umbrella term for anyone who doesn't identify as either male or female?

I'd have to disagree. I think they/them/their is a nice way to speak to someone who you do not know, but the effect line makes sense because the speaker said "third gender designations", which is plural. :p
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Postby Frieden-und Freudenland » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:13 pm

Sacara wrote:
Frieden-und Freudenland wrote:Nice draft :)

I see that Option 1 asks for "third gender designations" but the person also campaigns for "they/them/their," which can be used for this purpose. So the effect line surprised me a bit, as I hadn't seen so many gender designations coming. Maybe the speaker in Option 1 should explicitly say that they demand multiple gender designations, and not just one umbrella term for anyone who doesn't identify as either male or female?

I'd have to disagree. I think they/them/their is a nice way to speak to someone who you do not know, but the effect line makes sense because the speaker said "third gender designations", which is plural. :p

OK
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Postby Hediacrana » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:50 pm

Sacara, thanks for answering FuF's question. FuF, I'm glad you like this version too!

Now, as an alternative effect line for option 1, I'm wondering about:

"the passport application process offers more gender options than MyFace".

This refers to Facebook offering their costumers dozens of gender options. But I'm not sure whether people will catch the reference. What do y'all think? Would this be an improvement or no?
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