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by Revall » Mon May 30, 2016 1:37 pm
by Soames » Mon May 30, 2016 1:38 pm
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:Soames wrote:
Why should we start down an implausible path of removing important members of our region when we can simply implement controls to ensure that this doesn't occur again? For example, Klaus is already working on a constitutional amendment.
Whether or not that applies to this case, sometime those things are the same. See: Community response to Predator.
by Cormactopia II » Mon May 30, 2016 1:39 pm
Soames wrote:Cormactopia II wrote:Removal of 95 Block as an Elder and forum administrator -- which shouldn't be a controversial step for Grand Central anyway, given that he has twice destroyed Grand Central's forums in the past -- and recall of Festavo from the office of Stationmaster. At that point, we would accept that Grand Central as a community is taking this matter seriously enough. Anything short of that is just an attempt to sweep this under the rug. They are the ones who were responsible for this, to varying degrees, and they are the ones who should face consequences for it in Grand Central.
Why should we start down an implausible path of removing important members of our region when we can simply implement controls to ensure that this doesn't occur again? For example, Klaus is already working on a constitutional amendment.
by Ever-Wandering Souls » Mon May 30, 2016 1:40 pm
Soames wrote:Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:
Whether or not that applies to this case, sometime those things are the same. See: Community response to Predator.
Yeah, except we have no process for removing people from the Council of Elders, and it's a meaningless position anyway. And we have no process to "recall" a SM. So this is just a political wet dream.
The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258
Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative
by Soames » Mon May 30, 2016 1:44 pm
Cormactopia II wrote:You should start down that path because you should care about your leaders' actions. You should be ashamed of them. That you are not is, honestly, incredibly alarming.
And just to clarify, I haven't proposed "removing important members of [your] region." I proposed removing someone who has twice destroyed Grand Central's forums in the past and who personally masked Nuke and Feuer Ritter as citizens without community input from the position of forum administrator, and the recall of Stationmaster Festavo after he also authorized and defended Nuke's admission to citizenship. These should not be controversial proposals. Nobody is calling for them to be banned from Grand Central, but the least Grand Central could do is remove them from their positions of authority as the appropriate consequence for their actions.
In general, this is something Grand Central's community needs to accept in a hurry: There are consequences for your actions and the actions of your leaders. The Black Riders and DEN refused to accept that. They are no longer around to tell the tale.
I'm sure amending your constitution and laws to ensure that this can't happen again is also a good step to take, but you have to hold your leaders accountable. Again, all you have to do is look at raiderdom's recent history to see what happens when you fail to hold your leaders accountable.
by Soames » Mon May 30, 2016 1:46 pm
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:Soames wrote:
Yeah, except we have no process for removing people from the Council of Elders, and it's a meaningless position anyway. And we have no process to "recall" a SM. So this is just a political wet dream.
And, following the hypothetical here, processes can't be made? New things can't be done to allow for unforseen circumstances? Things can;t ever be done for a first time? hmpf. There wasn't a "process" for saying we'd never work with any region where a list of people led things, or for anyway any of the community expanded on Predator. We sat down, had some long and careful conversations, and forged a new path. Well, now you've got your own predator scandal, just another sort or predator. And your excuse is coming across a bit flat.
And if it's so meaningless, how come it's so important? And Forum adminship is defiantly not meaningless, especially when your forum admin removes three prominent members from forum adminship with nary an explanation.
by Ever-Wandering Souls » Mon May 30, 2016 1:47 pm
95 block wrote:LMAO, when does GC care what Osiris thinks?
The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258
Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative
by Syberis » Mon May 30, 2016 1:48 pm
95 block wrote:LMAO, when does GC care what Osiris thinks?
Zaolat wrote:WHO THE F*** IS SYBERIS
by Syberis » Mon May 30, 2016 1:50 pm
Zaolat wrote:WHO THE F*** IS SYBERIS
by 95 block » Mon May 30, 2016 1:51 pm
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:95 block wrote:LMAO, when does GC care what Osiris thinks?
An absolutely stunning response to the last few pages of this thread and the conversations within, of importance far beyond regional feuds and consisting of people from many more regions than just Osiris and GC. A gem of pure wisdom and maturity really. 5/7.
by Cormactopia II » Mon May 30, 2016 1:55 pm
Plagentine wrote:Cormactopia II wrote:Removal of 95 Block as an Elder and forum administrator -- which shouldn't be a controversial step for Grand Central anyway, given that he has twice destroyed Grand Central's forums in the past -- and recall of Festavo from the office of Stationmaster. At that point, we would accept that Grand Central as a community is taking this matter seriously enough. Anything short of that is just an attempt to sweep this under the rug. They are the ones who were responsible for this, to varying degrees, and they are the ones who should face consequences for it in Grand Central.
You are enjoying this way too much, Cormac. Take a breather.
95 block wrote:LMAO, when does GC care what Osiris thinks?
Soames wrote:And just to clarify, I haven't proposed "removing important members of [your] region." I proposed removing someone who has twice destroyed Grand Central's forums in the past and who personally masked Nuke and Feuer Ritter as citizens without community input from the position of forum administrator, and the recall of Stationmaster Festavo after he also authorized and defended Nuke's admission to citizenship. These should not be controversial proposals. Nobody is calling for them to be banned from Grand Central, but the least Grand Central could do is remove them from their positions of authority as the appropriate consequence for their actions.
Yeah, we're not going to do that, because that's not something we can actually do. We're a region of laws. We respect our laws. We don't give into hysteria.
Soames wrote:In general, this is something Grand Central's community needs to accept in a hurry: There are consequences for your actions and the actions of your leaders. The Black Riders and DEN refused to accept that. They are no longer around to tell the tale.I'm sure amending your constitution and laws to ensure that this can't happen again is also a good step to take, but you have to hold your leaders accountable. Again, all you have to do is look at raiderdom's recent history to see what happens when you fail to hold your leaders accountable.
Our community's response to our leaders will be decided the next time we hold elections, Cormac, not by foreign entities insisting on it.
by McManniaa » Mon May 30, 2016 1:56 pm
95 block wrote:Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:
An absolutely stunning response to the last few pages of this thread and the conversations within, of importance far beyond regional feuds and consisting of people from many more regions than just Osiris and GC. A gem of pure wisdom and maturity really. 5/7.
This is the internet. Nothing is important or serious. It's a shame the NS community is so unreasonably unforgiving. NS is a tool in which SJWs and people with disorders come to fight with each other through it seems, by the looks of the last few pages of this chat.
Grand Central is a welcoming region that believes in our law and second chances. I'll leave it at that.
by Soames » Mon May 30, 2016 2:01 pm
Cormactopia II wrote:You should be ashamed on behalf of your region.
Can't" and "won't" are not the same thing. You've already mentioned that you're considering constitutional amendments to address this issue. Obviously, you can amend your constitution and laws to be able to remove 95 Block as a forum administrator (and, if he won't go willingly, change forums), and you can amend your constitution and laws to be able to remove the Stationmaster from office. If you don't, that is a choice. There is no "can't."
In that case, I hope you enjoy being isolated from the rest of the gameplay community,
and seeing regions that normally wouldn't defend and liberate working alongside defenders to make sure Grand Central stays in Grand Central.
There is a virus in your region
by Lord Ravenclaw » Mon May 30, 2016 2:03 pm
by Soames » Mon May 30, 2016 2:05 pm
Lord Ravenclaw wrote:Let me state: I am utterly livid that Kemi has had to suffer needlessly because of the insensitivity of at least one other person who did not stop to think of the consequences of his actions before inviting and allowing two known people who should not have been allowed within a thousand metres of her onto what should have been a safe space.
I do not care how Grand Central addresses this, only that something is done to make it bloody well clear to those responsible that this sort of behaviour is not on. There was a bloody conference held by Mousebumples recently that dedicated a seminar to the prevention and protection of women from sexual harassment in NationStates, and although the discussion did get onto equal protection for all genders, it is utterly and completely astounding - not the good kind - that mere weeks after this well publicised event ended that this is happening.
Kemi is a dear friend of mine, and I have done my best at times, as has Cormac and numerous others in this thread to support her through the horrific experiences she's had to suffer through. The fact that anyone can be so callous and inconsiderate to have caused her to suffer sickens me to the core.
by Cormactopia II » Mon May 30, 2016 2:05 pm
Soames wrote:<snip>
by CoraSpia » Mon May 30, 2016 2:07 pm
by RiderSyl » Mon May 30, 2016 2:07 pm
95 block wrote:LMAO, when does GC care what Osiris thinks?
95 block wrote:This is the internet. Nothing is important or serious. It's a shame the NS community is so unreasonably unforgiving. NS is a tool in which SJWs and people with disorders come to fight with each other through it seems, by the looks of the last few pages of this chat.
95 block wrote:Grand Central is a welcoming region that believes in our law and second chances. I'll leave it at that.
Soames wrote:Lord Ravenclaw wrote:Let me state: I am utterly livid that Kemi has had to suffer needlessly because of the insensitivity of at least one other person who did not stop to think of the consequences of his actions before inviting and allowing two known people who should not have been allowed within a thousand metres of her onto what should have been a safe space.
I do not care how Grand Central addresses this, only that something is done to make it bloody well clear to those responsible that this sort of behaviour is not on. There was a bloody conference held by Mousebumples recently that dedicated a seminar to the prevention and protection of women from sexual harassment in NationStates, and although the discussion did get onto equal protection for all genders, it is utterly and completely astounding - not the good kind - that mere weeks after this well publicised event ended that this is happening.
Kemi is a dear friend of mine, and I have done my best at times, as has Cormac and numerous others in this thread to support her through the horrific experiences she's had to suffer through. The fact that anyone can be so callous and inconsiderate to have caused her to suffer sickens me to the core.
World's smallest violin.
by Ever-Wandering Souls » Mon May 30, 2016 2:08 pm
The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258
Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative
by Lord Ravenclaw » Mon May 30, 2016 2:09 pm
Soames wrote:Lord Ravenclaw wrote:Let me state: I am utterly livid that Kemi has had to suffer needlessly because of the insensitivity of at least one other person who did not stop to think of the consequences of his actions before inviting and allowing two known people who should not have been allowed within a thousand metres of her onto what should have been a safe space.
I do not care how Grand Central addresses this, only that something is done to make it bloody well clear to those responsible that this sort of behaviour is not on. There was a bloody conference held by Mousebumples recently that dedicated a seminar to the prevention and protection of women from sexual harassment in NationStates, and although the discussion did get onto equal protection for all genders, it is utterly and completely astounding - not the good kind - that mere weeks after this well publicised event ended that this is happening.
Kemi is a dear friend of mine, and I have done my best at times, as has Cormac and numerous others in this thread to support her through the horrific experiences she's had to suffer through. The fact that anyone can be so callous and inconsiderate to have caused her to suffer sickens me to the core.
World's smallest violin.
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