HYDRA COMMAND

[Eluvatar]

If invading school regions is against the rules, it's a new rule. I remember more than a few hits on those led by Savaer/ADP.

[violet]'s post making this clear was in 2011, for whatever that's worth.

[Libetarian Republics]

A lot can be said, that the World Assembly is not part of gameplay, however ultimately, the World Assembly does affect the game.

Oh, I would say that the World Assembly is absolutely part of Gameplay, since it enables Military Gameplay to even occur. No WA means no R/D,

And that's not even touching the Security Council and Liberation Proposals.

So you say we should strip school regions of WA membership? I mean after all, their interaction with the WA via voting is essentially affecting the game as well.

Edit: pointing my fingers at Zacherie, not EW

[Klaus Devestatorie]

If invading school regions is against the rules, it's a new rule. I remember more than a few hits on those led by Savaer/ADP.

[violet]'s post making this clear was in 2011, for whatever that's worth.

Rule was probably our fault then.

[Zacherie]

So you say we should strip school regions of WA membership? I mean after all, their interaction with the WA via voting is essentially affecting the game as well.

Edit: pointing my fingers at Zacherie, not EW

No. I am saying we don't let them propose to the Security Council if they are in a school region, or vote on the security council. Because the security council has a vast effect on gameplay, and it is categorically unfair for them to be able to wreak whatever havoc they like on gameplay through the security council, and to be immune under the protection of the mods to everything.

What is stopping a school region from proposing a liberation, or in the future, a custodian proposal? They are directly sticking their hand into R/D, and neither defender nor raider can do a thing about it, because they have the magical one-way wall that the word of god gave them.

[Mousebumples]

So you say we should strip school regions of WA membership? I mean after all, their interaction with the WA via voting is essentially affecting the game as well.

Edit: pointing my fingers at Zacherie, not EW

No. I am saying we don't let them propose to the Security Council if they are in a school region, or vote on the security council. Because the security council has a vast effect on gameplay, and it is categorically unfair for them to be able to wreak whatever havoc they like on gameplay through the security council, and to be immune under the protection of the mods to everything.

What is stopping a school region from proposing a liberation, or in the future, a custodian proposal? They are directly sticking their hand into R/D, and neither defender nor raider can do a thing about it, because they have the magical one-way wall that the word of god gave them.

Yup. You can call it "unfair." I would call it "permitting schools to use the site to teach their players about politics and more." I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for that rule to change, no matter how much you think it should be otherwise.

[Katganistan]

Except the point of them being a class region is to, you know, simulate being in the real-world-analog-to-the-World-Assembly.

They're not able to leave, so they're not able to raid. You're not able to enter their region to raid them. That's fair.

If they actually get a proposal passed, good on them, they did their homework. You can also write proposals and attempt to get them passed. If you don't care to do that, that's fine, too.

[Zacherie]

Except the point of them being a class region is to, you know, simulate being in the real-world-analog-to-the-World-Assembly.

They're not able to leave, so they're not able to raid. You're not able to enter their region to raid them. That's fair.

If they actually get a proposal passed, good on them, they did their homework. You can also write proposals and attempt to get them passed. If you don't care to do that, that's fine, too.

We can't pass liberations to remove their password, regardless of how much homework we do, which is the issue I have with it. I have absolutely no objection to class regions having WA nations or participating in the WA general assembly, and submitting proposals to that. Being able to raid them isn't the issue. The issue is that they can potentially liberate (and in the future, possibly custodian) any non-educator region in the world without fear of being targeted by one themselves.

[Consular]

Except the point of them being a class region is to, you know, simulate being in the real-world-analog-to-the-World-Assembly.

They're not able to leave, so they're not able to raid. You're not able to enter their region to raid them. That's fair.

If they actually get a proposal passed, good on them, they did their homework. You can also write proposals and attempt to get them passed. If you don't care to do that, that's fine, too.

We can't pass liberations to remove their password, regardless of how much homework we do, which is the issue I have with it. I have absolutely no objection to class regions having WA nations or participating in the WA general assembly, and submitting proposals to that. Being able to raid them isn't the issue. The issue is that they can potentially liberate (and in the future, possibly custodian) any non-educator region in the world without fear of being targeted by one themselves.

Don't be dramatic. Any such resolution would still require a majority from the rest of the world, and would likely need the support of major gameplay orientated delegates to not get stomped. If such a resolution were to pass it would be because the world wanted it to pass and it wouldn't particularly matter who submitted it.

[Chingis]

Didn't you spawn from BoSS, which spawned from Cimmeria? And all raiders are going to be tarred with the cheaters brush for the next year or so.

Which spawned from TBR... Which was founded by Halc, who also founded TBH. Sev is currently a Colonel there, and also doing stuffz in Osiris. Conclusion: Let's all blame Cormac.

[RiderSyl]

Didn't you spawn from BoSS, which spawned from Cimmeria? And all raiders are going to be tarred with the cheaters brush for the next year or so.

Which spawned from TBR... Which was founded by Halc, who also founded TBH. Sev is currently a Colonel there, and also doing stuffz in Osiris. Conclusion: Let's all blame Cormac.

But wait... if it wasn't for Max Berry, none of this would exist, therefore...
#BlameMaxBarry

[Vrolondia]

Its not hard to understand here; You cracked a password, it's against the rules. Should be obvious not to do that.
It's a region that a teachers using for educational purposes, so you should stay out. Again, pretty obvious.

Remember all those times you justified invading RP regions with "lol you can't opt out of gameplay"?

Apparently you can, so suck it up and move on. Stop complaining about how they're allowed in the World Assembly; as far as you're concerned it's a permanently passworded region that you need to stay out of. Which it was. And you didn't.

And again, it should be pretty bloody obvious to stay out of it to begin with. Because it was passworded. And cracking is illegal.

Just... Ugh. Between cracking the password, not having the sensibility to not raid a school region, then trying to justify it by saying it was their own fault, and the mods fault, and the rules fault, y'all have stooped to a new low.

*Edit*

Spelling

[Dark Robes]

Which spawned from TBR... Which was founded by Halc, who also founded TBH. Sev is currently a Colonel there, and also doing stuffz in Osiris. Conclusion: Let's all blame Cormac.

But wait... if it wasn't for Max Berry, none of this would exist, therefore...
#BlameMaxBarry

I hear that Max Berry has a fruity voice.

[Eliot Isaraider II]

One last thing before I become quiet. I would just like everyone to know, HYDRA Command did not pop up when DEN had its demise. We were fully functional and raiding, well before that. It just so happened, the people in DEN saw that we were pretty good at raiding, and they wanted to join us. Why should it be our fault for having DEN PVTs, PFCs, and CPLs? Anyways, that's just my thoughts. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but let me be clear, HYDRA Command DID NOT spawn from DEN. So, just wanted to get that out of the way before everyone thinks that HYDRA Command is "full of cheaters from DEN." There's really just me that got hit for Pred in HYDRA.

Didn't you spawn from BoSS, which spawned from Cimmeria? And all raiders are going to be tarred with the cheaters brush for the next year or so.

Ha. BoSS didn't spawn from Cimmeria. We didn't do didely squat with them. It was just me and Sci, and we were like, "Bro, you know what would be cool? Making a raider reagion." "Dude! Let's do it!" *invites all friends to the party* <-- How BoSS started. It was just a group of friends at the start.

[Eliot Isaraider II]

That last line makes it all warm and fuzzy. Group hug time?

Mods like you make everything cool. Yesterday, I filed a GHR to get some stamps transferred to my new nation after the sweep, and the mod was extremely helpful. So, yeah. Thanks for being cool, mods!

[Commonwealth of Hank the Cat]

But wait... if it wasn't for Max Berry, none of this would exist, therefore...
#BlameMaxBarry

I hear that Max Berry has a fruity voice.

..."fruity"? Ghost? True Capitalist? damn fruity bastards...

[In Gentem Et De Libris Scientiam]

It was me and Tardis who founded BoSS. Not Cora. He was made a general as a courtesy to him. A sign of respect.

But that's not why I'm posting. I'm posting because I've been looking at this thread and most people are ignoring the main injustice of all of this... I speak of the ridiculous punishments handed to Tardis. I'm not here to debate upon invading class regions, because that is obviously something you shouldn't do. But Tardis was handed his punishment because he was administered to the WA... But that was an automatic action on the part of the game. He shouldn't have been in the school region of course... He does deserve some sort of punishment for that... But not the one he has received. He should have gotten the nation that was sent there deleted, nothing more. But back to the main point. He broke his WA ban on no action of his own, like using a different email. He did it because the GAME automatically did it. This is crazy to punish. It's like me forcing someone to do something, and when they do, I punish them. They don't deserve that pubishment. They were physically forced to do so! And even after he was admitted to the WA, he left it immediately, which is not the action of someone seeking to circumvent their ban. If he was, that would be stupid because it's putting him at unnecessary risk for a 2 seconds in the WA. So I don't feel he deserves the punishments he has received, and I don't think many people would believe he does deserve them.


Edit: I hope I'm using this correctly... But mods use Spirit of the Law instead of Letter of the Law. Tardis technically broke his ban, but he did not mean to do so. If someone told him that doing that would break the ban, he would surely not have been a part of the operation and would have most likely forbade the operation.
-In Gentem Et De Libris Scientiam

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Tardis, along with the others wanted over Predator, was warned and I quote, from bold text-

If any player above is involved in use of an illegal script in the future, they will be DOSed. If any of them attempts to avoid their WA ban, they will be DOSed. If any of them violates the rules in any way while their punishment is in effect, we will at a minimum extend the WA ban by a further 3 months, and potentially DOS them. You are all on extremely thin ice. If any other player attempts to help one of the above evade their punishment, they will find themselves punished severely, potentially including being DOSed.

To summarize- he could have been DoSed quite fairly for this. He did in effect avoid his wa ban. He did violate the rules while his punishment is in effect. The way I see it, the mods recognized this was an accident, if a stupid one, and poor but not malicious judgement, and specifically chose not to employ the maximum punishment layed down by the group ruling. They specifically even chose not to employ the minimum under the WA clause. An extra three months and a sweep *was* lenient, and protesting it is not only not going to go anywhere, but does you and anyone else far less credit than owning up to making a poor choice and taking some responsibility.

[Benevolent Thomas]

And as for Brotherhood of Shadows and Cimmeria, wasn't Predator a fundamental aspect of their update operations? Yes. Did Cimmeria mercs and BoSS whatevers often conduct operations together? Yes. Was there cross-membership between these groups? Probably.

From my own observations as someone who pays pretty close attention to growing gameplay organizations, I'd say that BoSS was an offshoot of TBR/DEN that was heavily influence by Cora's views on raiding. These views include making raiding activity the ultimate achievement and reducing organizational barriers to activity which included military rank liberalization. BoSS, unlike Cora however, would engage in the occasional occupation of their own. Once BoSS had a falling out with Sci, which was inevitable, they co-opted with McMannia's regional theme and created HYDRA Command which is a marriage of TBR-influenced HYDRA (make a note that there were incarnations of McMannia's HYDRA before Command) and Brotherhood of Shadows.

There are former Black Riders, DENizens and Cimmerians in HYDRA Command. All four of the organizations I've mentioned are linked and pretty closely. McMannia has actually done a good job of making a distinction between HYDRA and the organizations that preceded it. Just as Auralia has done a good job of bringing in those that were displaced by the Predator scandal and assimilating them under its banner.

Unfortunately, there's going to be growing pains. There is an obvious lack of leadership in invaderdom currently and this most recent incident highlights it. I don't know how anyone could have thought that raiding a classroom region is a good idea. It is the ONLY admin-backed opt-out in Gameplay. Someone in HYDRA and Auralia had to have reservations (and Nephmir has made it clear that he would have killed this idea had he been online), but you wanted to be edgy and try it. This supreme lack of judgement has not only hurt the development of these new(er) organizations, it only reinforces negative stereotypes that invaders are a bunch of 'edgy' players that want to 'win' so badly that they are willing to circumvent site rules and normal customs to do it.

You've hurt your brand once more and once again pointing the blame at others, whether it be the region you invaded or the moderators, is not going to fix it. Tardis seems like a nice kid and he's screwed. I'd say the person who came up with the operation will have to live with that, but honestly, Tardis should have known better and not have taken the risk by jumping.

[McManniaa]

In retrospect it was a horribly stupid idea. Launching an invasion on the fly with no planning or consideration of the rules and potential consequences was a

bad idea. I wish i could say I voted against the idea but that would be a lie. This was a hasty spur of the moment decision and it bit us in the ass.

I thank the mods for not being more harsh in their judgement, so that we can learn from this mistake, and hopefully do better in the future.

[We Are Not the NSA]

And as for Brotherhood of Shadows and Cimmeria, wasn't Predator a fundamental aspect of their update operations? Yes. Did Cimmeria mercs and BoSS whatevers often conduct operations together? Yes. Was there cross-membership between these groups? Probably.

From my own observations as someone who pays pretty close attention to growing gameplay organizations, I'd say that BoSS was an offshoot of TBR/DEN that was heavily influence by Cora's views on raiding. These views include making raiding activity the ultimate achievement and reducing organizational barriers to activity which included military rank liberalization. BoSS, unlike Cora however, would engage in the occasional occupation of their own. Once BoSS had a falling out with Sci, which was inevitable, they co-opted with McMannia's regional theme and created HYDRA Command which is a marriage of TBR-influenced HYDRA (make a note that there were incarnations of McMannia's HYDRA before Command) and Brotherhood of Shadows.

There are former Black Riders, DENizens and Cimmerians in HYDRA Command. All four of the organizations I've mentioned are linked and pretty closely. McMannia has actually done a good job of making a distinction between HYDRA and the organizations that preceded it. Just as Auralia has done a good job of bringing in those that were displaced by the Predator scandal and assimilating them under its banner.

Unfortunately, there's going to be growing pains. There is an obvious lack of leadership in invaderdom currently and this most recent incident highlights it. I don't know how anyone could have thought that raiding a classroom region is a good idea. It is the ONLY admin-backed opt-out in Gameplay. Someone in HYDRA and Auralia had to have reservations (and Nephmir has made it clear that he would have killed this idea had he been online), but you wanted to be edgy and try it. This supreme lack of judgement has not only hurt the development of these new(er) organizations, it only reinforces negative stereotypes that invaders are a bunch of 'edgy' players that want to 'win' so badly that they are willing to circumvent site rules and normal customs to do it.

You've hurt your brand once more and once again pointing the blame at others, whether it be the region you invaded or the moderators, is not going to fix it. Tardis seems like a nice kid and he's screwed. I'd say the person who came up with the operation will have to live with that, but honestly, Tardis should have known better and not have taken the risk by jumping.

I blame this blunder on the lack of debate that went into the decision to conduct the raid. From what I can tell, there was less than an hour between "I got their password!" and update. Had I been on at the time, I would not have supported the idea, and there are several other members of Hydra's High Command who have expressed similar opinions. Of the 10 members of the High Command, only 2 were involved in the decision. I don't blame those 2, they were just being ambitious, but no one took the time to play devil's advocate and actually research class regions.

Frankly, this was an error in leadership, and we're the only ones to blame for it. Edisonia did nothing other than play the game the way their region allows them to, and moderation was very lenient with us. According to the punishments laid out in the Predator decision, Tardis should be DoS right now, but moderation showed mercy and gave him a final chance. We will continue to address the issues internally, and extend our sincerest apologies to Edisonia and moderation for what we've done.

[Eliot Isaraider II]

They call me a wanderer
Yeah, a wanderer
I roam around, around, around, around

Men, it's been a long war, it's been a tough war. You've fought bravely, proudly for your region. You're a special group. You've found in one another a bond, that exists only in combat, among brothers. You've been banjected, held each other in dire moments. You've seen DEATs and DOSs and suffered together. I'm proud to have served with each and every one of you. You all deserve long and happy lives in peace.

I on the other hand, I must depart from you. This is the end of my war. I am sorry to say, I am resigning from my position as Director, in HYDRA Command. I am honored to have been your Director. I am in no position to be leading such a fine group of soldiers. I've cheated unintentionally, I've been punished for it, and I have broken the probation that I was put under. Under no circumstances should you think that I did any of this on purpose. It has just been a series of unfortunate events. There is one thing that you must understand about me. I am not sorry for raiding, nor will I ever be. And with that, I depart. Thank you for the chance that you all gave me. o>
-Eliot Isaraider

[Chingis]

klolbai

[Ayvari]

Chingis, could you be any more disrespectful if you tried?

[The Candy Lane]

My only question is how many more rules will be broken before this gets treated like an actual problem? Seriously, a player under WA ban organized a raid which broke well established and fundamental site rules (password cracking, school region etc) , joined the WA, and then participated in the raid. What's the punishment? An extension of his WA ban. Because that worked so well the last time.

[Eliot Isaraider II]

My only question is how many more rules will be broken before this gets treated like an actual problem? Seriously, a player under WA ban organized a raid which broke well established and fundamental site rules (password cracking, school region etc) , joined the WA, and then participated in the raid. What's the punishment? An extension of his WA ban. Because that worked so well the last time.

Okay, so first things first. I did not organize this raid. I did not participate in this raid. I did not crack the password. I moved into the region so I could get a screenshot of "Eliot was here" on the RMB. I did not join intentionally. When I jumped, it was auto-WA.