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by Chazicaria » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:16 am
by UNIverseVERSE » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:16 am
Galloism wrote:Only caveat of mine to this is that if, as you said, a woman woke up one morning 8 1/2 months pregnant and said "I don't want this in my body anymore", she shouldn't be able to get an abortion. However, she should be able to get induced labor or a c-section (or whatever she desires) to remove the baby from her. Once the baby can survive on its own without its mother, I consider it worth saving.
by Elaborate Design » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:17 am
Chazicaria wrote:OH GUESS WHAT IVE GOT AN IDEA DONT HAVE SEX OR USE BIRTH CONTROL, IF YOU DONT WANT KIDS THEN DONT TRY TO HAVE THEM, I hate it when a slut has sex, gets pregnant, can't support the baby and decides oh what the heck im going to kill my baby so i can go on being a slutty slut
by Geule » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:17 am
Hamilay wrote:Chazicaria wrote:OH GUESS WHAT IVE GOT AN IDEA DONT HAVE SEX OR USE BIRTH CONTROL, IF YOU DONT WANT KIDS THEN DONT TRY TO HAVE THEM, I hate it when a slut has sex, gets pregnant, can't support the baby and decides oh what the heck im going to kill my baby so i can go on being a slutty slut
You're a rather angry person, aren't you?
by UNIverseVERSE » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:18 am
Chazicaria wrote:no i just hate murderers
by Elaborate Design » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:19 am
UNIverseVERSE wrote:Chazicaria wrote:no i just hate murderers
Murder is one thing. Demanding that anyone uses their body as a life support machine for another is very different, and totally unreasonable.
Are you male or female?
by Chazicaria » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:20 am
by UNIverseVERSE » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:23 am
Chazicaria wrote:no im not angry or a troll its just my opinion and thats not illegal or against the rules and by the way im a male but know plenty of women who are even more against this than me
by Chazicaria » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:24 am
by Hamilay » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:27 am
Chazicaria wrote:I hate it when a slut has sex, gets pregnant, can't support the baby and decides oh what the heck im going to kill my baby so i can go on being a slutty slut
Chazicaria wrote:yes actually my mom faced it 5 times my aunt 3 times my grandmother 9 times and my other aunts several times
by Elaborate Design » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:28 am
Hamilay wrote:Chazicaria wrote:I hate it when a slut has sex, gets pregnant, can't support the baby and decides oh what the heck im going to kill my baby so i can go on being a slutty slutChazicaria wrote:yes actually my mom faced it 5 times my aunt 3 times my grandmother 9 times and my other aunts several times
Your family gatherings must be unpleasant affairs...
by Hamilay » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:29 am
Elaborate Design wrote:I was just thinking about how to formulate that.
Thank you; so eloquently
by Galloism » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:30 am
UNIverseVERSE wrote:Galloism wrote:Only caveat of mine to this is that if, as you said, a woman woke up one morning 8 1/2 months pregnant and said "I don't want this in my body anymore", she shouldn't be able to get an abortion. However, she should be able to get induced labor or a c-section (or whatever she desires) to remove the baby from her. Once the baby can survive on its own without its mother, I consider it worth saving.
Her right to bodily integrity extends to doing things with her body that I disapprove of, like having extremely late term elective abortions.
UNIverseVERSE wrote:Edit: I always try to defend something in its most absolute terms. Yes, this means I end up defending things I don't like. However, it also means I don't end up quibbling with people about exactly where the line should be drawn. By saying "I will defend your right to an abortion at any stage, for any reason", I avoid constant arguing over "well, move the line a few months earlier" or "this isn't a good enough reason to abort". Any reason, any time. Saves a lot of hassle (and, as I said, people simply don't have late term abortions for frivolous reasons. So I needn't even worry about them doing something I might consider distasteful).
UNIverseVERSE wrote:Here's a challenge -- anyone who would force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term, will you put your money where your mouth is and pay for the upbringing of the child?
by Poliwanacraca » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:33 am
Concurria wrote:I'm saying that the second I come into being as a fertilized egg you can already know my class, color of skin, gender, orientation, capability, and the fact that I will age.
by Poliwanacraca » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:34 am
Chazicaria wrote:OH GUESS WHAT IVE GOT AN IDEA DONT HAVE SEX OR USE BIRTH CONTROL, IF YOU DONT WANT KIDS THEN DONT TRY TO HAVE THEM, I hate it when a slut has sex, gets pregnant, can't support the baby and decides oh what the heck im going to kill my baby so i can go on being a slutty slut
Chazicaria wrote:yes actually my mom faced it 5 times my aunt 3 times my grandmother 9 times and my other aunts several times
by Enadail » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:35 am
Galloism wrote:My position is that an underdeveloped fetus is a person, but that the fetus does not have the right to use someone's body against her will. When you take that out of the equation, then I think killing them is wrong.
Galloism wrote:True enough. I'm just saying, if you're going to start killing things on the possibility that their life might be miserable, why not kill the ones who already are?
Galloism wrote:Giving it up for adoption is always an option, and I never said forcing a mother to carry. You'll note that my position is that the fetus does not have the right to force the mother to use her body to support it, but that once the fetus can survive on its own outside the body, then it has the right to try - with medical help, if necessary.
Galloism wrote:There is a population issue, I'll grant you that. Mass-murder solves that too.
by Galloism » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:39 am
Enadail wrote:Galloism wrote:My position is that an underdeveloped fetus is a person, but that the fetus does not have the right to use someone's body against her will. When you take that out of the equation, then I think killing them is wrong.
Maybe its the biologist in me... I don't.
Enadail wrote:Galloism wrote:True enough. I'm just saying, if you're going to start killing things on the possibility that their life might be miserable, why not kill the ones who already are?
Because humans believe in morality and ethics, for the most part. Its against my morality to kill a person when it can be helped. We can help, we simply choose not to, because we'd have to take away something from ourselves.
Enadail wrote:Galloism wrote:Giving it up for adoption is always an option, and I never said forcing a mother to carry. You'll note that my position is that the fetus does not have the right to force the mother to use her body to support it, but that once the fetus can survive on its own outside the body, then it has the right to try - with medical help, if necessary.
We have enough kids in the adoption system who never get a home, we don't need more. The adoption system is already stressed well beyond its limits and IS NOT an option, other then to again place the child into a most often torturous position.
Enadail wrote:Galloism wrote:There is a population issue, I'll grant you that. Mass-murder solves that too.
Again, ethics. But why commit mass murder when its easier to control new children? Again, through education and controlled sex first, through abortion as a last line thing.
by Poliwanacraca » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:44 am
Concurria wrote:It is just about what I think. It's about the many other people that think it as well. You've completely neglected my point however and have failed to address it. Tell me why you rally to a right decided by a court of individuals when you decry the mere thought that individual thoughts should dictate the majority.
As to your second paragraph: Thank you for admitting that what you think is what is best for the majority: Believing that people are best left to their own decisions is still a believe unto yourself.
And allowing abortion to continue is a good way of protecting life, because?
by Enadail » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:48 am
Galloism wrote:Which of course, brings us back to the definition of "personhood", on which we will never agree, as I said at the outset.
So, let me ask you, when do you think personhood starts, and the even more relevant question - why there?
Galloism wrote:And I see the fetus as a person, so it's against my morality to kill a person when it can be helped - ethically.
Galloism wrote:True, but it's hard to argue that a baby that was just born and being put into adoption is a person while a fetus that's 8 months and 29 days pregnant is not. I still want to see where you draw this line and why.
Galloism wrote:And my ethics are the reason for my position. I agree that education and safe sex should be a very large priority with us. This "abstinence only" crap that people keep spewing is driving us under.
by Poliwanacraca » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:51 am
Chazicaria wrote:Women who say that they should have control over their bodies are...well....dumb its not just their body
by Galloism » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:52 am
Enadail wrote:Galloism wrote:Which of course, brings us back to the definition of "personhood", on which we will never agree, as I said at the outset.
So, let me ask you, when do you think personhood starts, and the even more relevant question - why there?
A fetus becomes a person once its born. That simple for me.
Enadail wrote:Galloism wrote:And I see the fetus as a person, so it's against my morality to kill a person when it can be helped - ethically.
Even if its into a position where they'll wish they were dead?
Enadail wrote:Galloism wrote:True, but it's hard to argue that a baby that was just born and being put into adoption is a person while a fetus that's 8 months and 29 days pregnant is not. I still want to see where you draw this line and why.
A fetus is a person once its born. When its 8 months and 29 days, its still a fetus, but if its selfviable, it has more rights then a zygote, even if not legally, it does ethically. Why? Because I see both personal lives and humanity as a whole. I think its important to remember individual people, but then it becomes similar to those stupid hypothetical: if you have to choose to save 5 healthy, young people vs 10 people who are a drain on society due to stuff out of their control, such as age, illness, etc, which group do you pick? Its not simple by any means.
by Dyakovo » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:56 am
Chazicaria wrote:you see thats why i hate scientists and those who side with them all they do is invent new resons for murder.
by The Romulan Republic » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:57 am
UNIverseVERSE wrote:Her right to bodily integrity extends to doing things with her body that I disapprove of, like having extremely late term elective abortions.
Edit: I always try to defend something in its most absolute terms. Yes, this means I end up defending things I don't like. However, it also means I don't end up quibbling with people about exactly where the line should be drawn. By saying "I will defend your right to an abortion at any stage, for any reason", I avoid constant arguing over "well, move the line a few months earlier" or "this isn't a good enough reason to abort". Any reason, any time. Saves a lot of hassle (and, as I said, people simply don't have late term abortions for frivolous reasons. So I needn't even worry about them doing something I might consider distasteful).
So you don't care about what's right, what makes sense, or what's based in facts, you just treat everything as black and white to avoid any complex decisions or using your judgement?
I am sorry, but that is an opinion and a justification that I cannot possibly respect, especially in an issue involving fundamental rights.Here's a challenge -- anyone who would force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term, will you put your money where your mouth is and pay for the upbringing of the child?
by Dyakovo » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:58 am
Chazicaria wrote:OH GUESS WHAT IVE GOT AN IDEA DONT HAVE SEX OR USE BIRTH CONTROL, IF YOU DONT WANT KIDS THEN DONT TRY TO HAVE THEM, I hate it when a slut has sex, gets pregnant, can't support the baby and decides oh what the heck im going to kill my baby so i can go on being a slutty slut
by The Tofu Islands » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:58 am
Chazicaria wrote: GOOD JOB GEORGIA NOW ALL WE NEED TO DO IS BAN BABY KILLING ENTIRELY.
Chazicaria wrote:Women who say that they should have control over their bodies are...well....dumb
Chazicaria wrote:its not just their body they (rather they like it or not they) are sharing
Chazicaria wrote:they need to realize that it doesn't matter if you don't want a kid or not adoption is always an option
Chazicaria wrote:baby killing is wrong
Chazicaria wrote:everyone from hookers to obama need to realize that the "fetus" is a real living thing and anyone who doesn't believe it is wrong plain and simple.
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