NSG Senate Chamber [NSG Senate]

[Regnum Dominae]

I would only support military conscription in two cases:
1) It is absolutely necessary to maintain large reserves for the national defense, as in Israel or Finland.
2) It is absolutely necessary for the prosecution of a war in which victory or defeat will determine the national survival.

In short, conscription only when necessary, and only with Senatorial approval. Conscription just for it's own sake, or as a way to "discipline youngsters" is wasteful, silly, and immoral. We should always strive to maintain a politically independent, fully volunteer, appropriately sized, and high quality military.

Why does Finland need it? I can't remember.

[Shrillland]

I would only support military conscription in two cases:
1) It is absolutely necessary to maintain large reserves for the national defense, as in Israel or Finland.
2) It is absolutely necessary for the prosecution of a war in which victory or defeat will determine the national survival.

In short, conscription only when necessary, and only with Senatorial approval. Conscription just for it's own sake, or as a way to "discipline youngsters" is wasteful, silly, and immoral. We should always strive to maintain a politically independent, fully volunteer, appropriately sized, and high quality military.

Why does Finland need it? I can't remember.

It's kind of outdated now, but it had to do with having Russia as your next-door neighbour.

In any event, I am for conscription if there is a formal declaration of war against a nation, and if that nation poses a realistic shot at invasion of Aurentina's sovereign territory. However if my party goes differently, I will stand by them.

[Lemanrussland]

Conscription should only exist in dire circumstances. In peace time, it should never exist.

So, we should force our people to unpaid servitude so that we can survive?

Conscripts are paid in pretty much every nation that has them, even in war. Otherwise, you would see revolts.

[Mishmahig]

On the matter of conscription I believe I can speak for all of the Libertarian Freedom Party in saying that we cannot accept state sanctioned bondage. The day this country in order to defend itself enslaves its people is the day it becomes a country not worth defending.

That said should the need for a conscription ever come an act of the Senate should be required to permit it why discussing conscription in regards to a general bill on military matters seem superfluous to me.

Seconded. A state that needs to enslave people in order to win its battles is a state that doesn't deserve to win at all.

Please explain Great Britain in WWI or WWII.

[Silent Majority]

At the end of the day conscription is the only way to insure that the military isn't just made up of the poor, and makes the ruling class less willing to support wars, as they would be directly affected by it.

[Great Nepal]

So, we should force our people to unpaid servitude so that we can survive?

Conscripts are paid in pretty much every nation that has them, even in war. Otherwise, you would see revolts.

I stand corrected. Change that to "we should force our people to servitude so that we can survive?"

[Great Nepal]

At the end of the day conscription is the only way to insure that the military isn't just made up of the poor, and makes the ruling class less willing to support wars, as they would be directly affected by it.

Or, we could avoid this by putting in constitutional ammendment saying any non-defensive wars requires national referendum?

[The Zeonic States]

Why does Finland need it? I can't remember.

It's kind of outdated now, but it had to do with having Russia as your next-door neighbour.

In any event, I am for conscription if there is a formal declaration of war against a nation, and if that nation poses a realistic shot at invasion of Aurentina's sovereign territory. However if my party goes differently, I will stand by them.

Indeed many people some Finns included try to forget the Continuation War where Finland and Germany fought together against the Soviet Union for Three Years. Of course then Finland Turned against Germany and expelled the very men who had fought and died alongside them on the Eastern Front.

Sort of distasteful business i suppose.



Finland and Russia have a storied history to say the least.

[Lemanrussland]

I would only support military conscription in two cases:
1) It is absolutely necessary to maintain large reserves for the national defense, as in Israel or Finland.
2) It is absolutely necessary for the prosecution of a war in which victory or defeat will determine the national survival.

In short, conscription only when necessary, and only with Senatorial approval. Conscription just for it's own sake, or as a way to "discipline youngsters" is wasteful, silly, and immoral. We should always strive to maintain a politically independent, fully volunteer, appropriately sized, and high quality military.

Why does Finland need it? I can't remember.

It's somewhat antiquated, but their military is based on the cadre model, with a small professional army of officers, NCOs, and specialists, along with a large body of conscripted reservists and regulars. They have historically been under threat of invasion by their much larger neighbor, Russia.

In the Cold War era, it was definitely necessary. Today, less so, but the old geopolitical dynamics remain a constant in that region. Russia is still a semi-antagonistic, expansionist neighbor (it has to be, but that is another discussion).

[Silent Majority]

At the end of the day conscription is the only way to insure that the military isn't just made up of the poor, and makes the ruling class less willing to support wars, as they would be directly affected by it.

Or, we could avoid this by putting in constitutional ammendment saying any non-defensive wars requires national referendum?

This seems acceptable

[Britcan]

At the end of the day conscription is the only way to insure that the military isn't just made up of the poor, and makes the ruling class less willing to support wars, as they would be directly affected by it.

What?

[Greater Pokarnia]

Or, we could avoid this by putting in constitutional ammendment saying any non-defensive wars requires national referendum?

This seems acceptable

Yeah, I would support making non-defensive wars a matter to be voted on by the people.

[Silent Majority]

At the end of the day conscription is the only way to insure that the military isn't just made up of the poor, and makes the ruling class less willing to support wars, as they would be directly affected by it.

What?

Professional militaries tend to be composed of the poor, the destitute, and the desperate.

[Regnum Dominae]

This seems acceptable

Yeah, I would support making non-defensive wars a matter to be voted on by the people.

Thirded.

[Britcan]

This amendment now has five sponsors including myself. I ask that it be added to the queue.

National Symbols Act: Amendment I
Urgency: Low

Drafted by: Britcan [TR]
Sponsored by: Celritannia [Independent], Geilinor [LD], Hathradic States [NIFP], The Treorai [CFE]

HEREBY amends the National Symbols Act to include the following clauses:

NATIONAL BIRD shall be the Great Tit (Parus major).
NATIONAL MAMMAL shall be the Red Deer (Cervus elaphus).
NATIONAL FISH shall be the Seahorse (Hippocampus hippocampus).
NATIONAL REPTILE shall be the Western Three-toed Skink (Chalcides striatus).
NATIONAL SUMMER SPORT shall be Association Football.
NATIONAL WINTER SPORT shall be Ice Hockey.
FLORAL EMBLEM shall be the Bay Laurel (Laurus nobilis).

[Greater Pokarnia]

Yeah, I would support making non-defensive wars a matter to be voted on by the people.

Thirded.

I think we'd have to draft a bill for that.

I'll draft the bill; it will also include other scenarios which demand a national referendum to be held.

EDIT: On second thought, I don't know how we would RP a national referendum.

[Fulflood]

Conscription is only necessary in extreme times of war, and only then if conscientious objectors are treated fairly.

[Trotskylvania]

Conscription should only exist in dire circumstances. In peace time, it should never exist.

So, we should force our people to unpaid servitude so that we can survive?

Never in the history of the modern world have conscript armies not been paid.

And I feel quite frankly ashamed that I have to say this, since it should be self-evident, but our ideals are not a suicide pact. The reason why conscription is a necessary evil during some wars is because national defense is something that is easily susceptible to free rider problems. No one wants to be the one to die, but if you don't want to be conquered, someone has to do it.

There are extreme circumstances where conscription is necessary, and failing to do so only causes greater evils. I refer you to the Tamerlane Principle.

The NSA only permits conscription by Senate resolution only during times of war. This is reasonable.

[Geilinor]

Conscription should only exist in dire circumstances. In peace time, it should never exist.

So, we should force our people to unpaid servitude so that we can survive?

Only if the country would be obliterated. As long as there are enough volunteers, we don't need conscription. If we had a world war type situation and people weren't volunteering, for example.

[Denecaep]

I am going to withhold my congratulations to a communist prime minister.

Either way, since Limiting Legislation Act, The Civil Treatment Act, Sexual Industry Regulation Act and The Anti-Slavery Act essentially deals with similar stuff, I move for omnibus bill combining all of the above listed bills and for this to be brought to vote.

Fifthed.

Sixthed and admin approved (still needs a seventh).

[Maklohi Vai]

Fifthed.

Sixthed and admin approved (still needs a seventh).

Seventhed

[Regnum Dominae]

So, we should force our people to unpaid servitude so that we can survive?

Never in the history of the modern world have conscript armies not been paid.

And I feel quite frankly ashamed that I have to say this, since it should be self-evident, but our ideals are not a suicide pact. The reason why conscription is a necessary evil during some wars is because national defense is something that is easily susceptible to free rider problems. No one wants to be the one to die, but if you don't want to be conquered, someone has to do it.

There are extreme circumstances where conscription is necessary, and failing to do so only causes greater evils. I refer you to the Tamerlane Principle.

The NSA only permits conscription by Senate resolution only during times of war. This is reasonable.

It should at least be changed to allow it only by defensive war.

[Regnum Dominae]

Thirded.

I think we'd have to draft a bill for that.

I'll draft the bill; it will also include other scenarios which demand a national referendum to be held.

EDIT: On second thought, I don't know how we would RP a national referendum.

Maybe first hold a vote of the Senators (since we are theoretically representing the population) and throw the numbers into a statistics generator and see what it gives us.

[Great Nepal]

Never in the history of the modern world have conscript armies not been paid.

I already accepted this previously.

And I feel quite frankly ashamed that I have to say this, since it should be self-evident, but our ideals are not a suicide pact. The reason why conscription is a necessary evil during some wars is because national defense is something that is easily susceptible to free rider problems. No one wants to be the one to die, but if you don't want to be conquered, someone has to do it.

There are extreme circumstances where conscription is necessary, and failing to do so only causes greater evils. I refer you to the Tamerlane Principle.

The NSA only permits conscription by Senate resolution only during times of war. This is reasonable.

If we give up our ideals to survive, then what has actually survived senator? It is ideals and fundamental values that defines this nation and to give those up because things got a little hard is simply unacceptable.

[Grenartia]

The first Cabinet is hereby appointed as follows:

President: Aeken, Liberal Democrats
Vice President: Wolfmanne, Progressive-Conservatives
PM: Of the Free Socialist Territories, Communists
Deputy PM: Grenartia, Totally Rad

Ministry of Interiors: Costa Alegria, Progressive-Conservatives
Ministry of Defense: The Realm of God, Progressive-Conservatives
Ministry of Research and Astronomy: Ainin, Totally Rad
Ministry of Education: Greater Pokarnia, Communists
Ministry of Treasury and Finance: Ceannairceach, Totally Rad
Ministry of Health: Chestaan, Communists
Ministry of Energy: Yanalia, Red-Greens
Ministry of Culture and Sports: Venaleria, Red-Greens
Ministry of Justice: Finium, Progressive-Conservatives
Ministry of Work: TerraPublica, Communists
Ministry of Foreign Affairs: Glasgia, Liberal Democrats
Ministry of Environment: Priory Academy USSR, Totally Rad

Further appointments will be announced as and when legislation establishing the relevant Ministries is passed by the Senate.

FreeSoc
Prime Minister

I look forward to working with you and the rest of the Cabinet, Prime Minister.

The first Cabinet is hereby appointed as follows:

President: Aeken, Liberal Democrats
Vice President: Wolfmanne, Progressive-Conservatives
PM: Of the Free Socialist Territories, Communists
Deputy PM: Grenartia, Totally Rad

Ministry of Interiors: Costa Alegria, Progressive-Conservatives
Ministry of Defense: The Realm of God, Progressive-Conservatives
Ministry of Research and Astronomy: Ainin, Totally Rad
Ministry of Education: Greater Pokarnia, Communists
Ministry of Treasury and Finance: Ceannairceach, Totally Rad
Ministry of Health: Chestaan, Communists
Ministry of Energy: Yanalia, Red-Greens
Ministry of Culture and Sports: Venaleria, Red-Greens
Ministry of Justice: Finium, Progressive-Conservatives
Ministry of Work: TerraPublica, Communists
Ministry of Foreign Affairs: Glasgia, Liberal Democrats
Ministry of Environment: Priory Academy USSR, Totally Rad

Further appointments will be announced as and when legislation establishing the relevant Ministries is passed by the Senate.

FreeSoc
Prime Minister

There IS NO OFFICE OF VICE PRESIDENT.

Perhaps VP is analogous to my position, as more or less assistant to the PM.

Conscription should only exist in dire circumstances. In peace time, it should never exist.

So, we should force our people to unpaid servitude so that we can survive?

As I recall, you're still paid for your service to the country if you're drafted.

Conscripts are paid in pretty much every nation that has them, even in war. Otherwise, you would see revolts.

I stand corrected. Change that to "we should force our people to servitude so that we can survive?"

Well, considering that there are a fair portion of people who would otherwise not volunteer, due to fear/panic, or other such reasons, I'd argue yes.