[BRIBED] Repeal: WA General Fund

[Auralia]

Again, I'm curious about international organisations like the ICC and ITA that presumably draw their funding from the WAGF. I've asked for a mod opinion, as you suggested, not a ruling, just an opinion.

All WA resolutions are funded (or repeals de-funded) at the time of their passage by making one-time adjustments to national budgets and laws. The WA has no independent source of funds to maintain committees, promote projects, fund grants, or pretty much anything else. The existence of WA internal organizations is therefore the collective responsibility of member nations (i.e. via roleplay and per the content of passed resolutions) and not of the Secretariat.

Then what was the point of the WA General Fund?

[Frisbeeteria]

Then what was the point of the WA General Fund?

The same as the point of EVERY resolution - to provide a RP hook for you to play around. If we limited resolutions descriptions to game mechanisms, this place would be deadly dull. By the same token, the game mechanics are far too simple to correctly address the fine detail of resolutions, so we simply do <what the category description says> at the time of passage and let it go at that.

[Bears Armed]

Again, I'm curious about international organisations like the ICC and ITA that presumably draw their funding from the WAGF. I've asked for a mod opinion, as you suggested, not a ruling, just an opinion.

All WA resolutions are funded (or repeals de-funded) at the time of their passage by making one-time adjustments to national budgets and laws. The WA has no independent source of funds to maintain committees, promote projects, fund grants, or pretty much anything else. The existence of WA internal organizations is therefore the collective responsibility of member nations (i.e. via roleplay and per the content of passed resolutions) and not of the Secretariat.

It was "the content of passed resolutions", rather than OOC game-mechanics, about which the question was being asked.

[Ossitania]

I've received two responses to my queries from Ardchoille;

I can't really give you a mod opinion on that. This is a long-time player opinion: at a glance, I think many of those queries are arguments you should raise in the debate while the proposal is seeking approvals. Many of them are RP points, though: when a realistic GA would be begging in the streets, the game mechanism allows it to continue on its rip-roaring way.
At a strictly game mechanism level, all the repeal does is remove the resolution, while leaving the committee. The committee continues to operate for the purposes other resolutions prescribe. Since the committee remains, other resolutions may ascribe functions to it. The game doesn't know and doesn't care whether the coffers are empty. I'm basing this on past experience, plus the fact that resolutions that hit individual economies continue doing so even after the economy in question has imploded. Magically, the nation doesn't fall apart, because the game hasn't been coded that way -- which is why you get spendthrifts like me RPing post-scarcity, barter, L.E.T.S. (http://www.uitdaging.net/hope/page/LETS_system.html) or black market economies. So I'm extrapolating (guessing) that the same applies to the GA as a whole.
At an RP level, the repeal has whatever effects various players say it has. I'd expect the general take to be that it reverts the funding of WA undertakings back to the situation before the General Fund was established, when social democrats spent without qualm and fiscal conservatives complained bitterly about the coffers not being infinite. That provided plenty of fun in the past and may well provoke a NatSov -- or economist -- player to create another compulsory fund, but that's up to the players.

Just realised: what I should have said was, "Ask Knoot." If he wants to repeal it, he should have considered, or should be asked to consider, the queries you've raised.

Make of that what you will. I need to spend some time studying maths, I might be back to see what comes of this later.

[Philimbesi]

We can support this ONLY with the stipulation that upon passage our tab at the Strangers Bar does not come due.

[Merfurian]

We can support this ONLY with the stipulation that upon passage our tab at the Strangers Bar does not come due.

I think you'll find that the barman has previously ruled that the General Fund can't be used to pay for drinks and other consumables at the Strangers' Bar, so your stipulation is now a moot point.

Klause Uliyan
etc

[Philimbesi]

I think you'll find that the barman has previously ruled that the General Fund can't be used to pay for drinks and other consumables at the Strangers' Bar, so your stipulation is now a moot point.

And I think YOU'LL find that there are many many ways around that sort of thing, unless you're one of these insufferable do-gooders that follows the 'rules'.

[Frisbeeteria]

It was "the content of passed resolutions", rather than OOC game-mechanics, about which the question was being asked.

The Secretariat's opinion on that aspect shouldn't carry any more weight than any other ambassador's opinion. It's a roleplay question when all is said and done.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Libraria and Ausitoria: If you consider fairness, honesty and transparency to be unimportant, then you have very little standing indeed to call anyone out on their "niceness".

And you have absolutely no standing to call anybody out on what they say unless you actually read what they have said.

Let's try again. For a third time:

We agree. However, you have not answered our question. Why is a fair, transparent and honest debate necessary?

And, in case our question isn't clear enough, why is a fair, transparent, and honest debate on every bill necessary to achieve better financial backing for WA programs?

[Bears Armed]

It was "the content of passed resolutions", rather than OOC game-mechanics, about which the question was being asked.

The Secretariat's opinion on that aspect shouldn't carry any more weight than any other ambassador's opinion. It's a roleplay question when all is said and done.

OOC: We can't mention the OOC rules in proposals because of the rule against Meta-gaming, right?
Therefore their actual contents are solely RP-based, right?

Okay, so in that case what about the "Honest Mistake" rule? Isn't that a case of the Mods giving definitive rulings about how the contents of a proposal work for RP purposes? And if that can apply in other cases, then what about in this case too?

[Knootoss]

I've requested that the resolution be pulled from the queue so that Glen-Rhodes has a little more time to work on his replacement. (Also: 2 spelling errors).

[Ardchoille]

I think you'll find that the barman has previously ruled that the General Fund can't be used to pay for drinks and other consumables at the Strangers' Bar, so your stipulation is now a moot point.

And I think YOU'LL find that there are many many ways around that sort of thing, unless you're one of these insufferable do-gooders that follows the 'rules'.

Apparently Neville glanced at the monitors as he walked by, as he's just tweeted me this: @Nigel: Bring it on!

-- Avaya Thibaudet, shanghaied into filling in for Dicey Reilly because the latter's running some sort of drunken seminar on telekinesis vs teleportation.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Let's try again. For a third time:

Why is a fair, transparent and honest debate necessary?

And, in case our question isn't clear enough, why is a fair, transparent, and honest debate on every bill necessary to achieve better financial backing for WA programs?

He had three opportunities, and he didn't answer the question.

Suspicious.

[Knootoss]

I've given you an answer. Just not the answer you like. I believe that having a fair, transparent, and honest debate is the cornerstone of democracy. I also believe that trying to con people into signing an agreement they have been led to misunderstand is evil. If you continue to ask "why", that is only evidence that you lack the moral compass to figure this out for yourself.

I'm tired of dealing with you asking the same question over and over again to clog up the thread. This filibustering is getting pretty close to just being plain spam.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

Question: Why is a fair, transparent, and honest debate on every bill necessary to achieve better financial backing for WA programs?

Answer:

I've given you an answer*[...] I believe that having a fair, transparent, and honest debate is the cornerstone of democracy.

*You answered a different question - the question you thought I was asking. Nice that you've decided to answer the question now. If you'd just answered it the first time, I wouldn't have had to ask you three times, would I?

But now we've got the answer. So, next question:
Considering that for WA debates to be fair, transparent, and honest with regards to funding takes a lot of time and effort; and considering the effect if the WA had to have such debates on funding issues for every single proposal; and the cumbersome increase in clauses to provide such funding, at a time when word limits are already being stretched; why are you not happy to have a fair, transparent, and honest debate just once to supply all WA funding?

Alternatively, may we take it you would want a single replacement to provide for everything?

If you could include a clause stating such a desire, we would be more happy to support this proposal.

[Knootoss]

Updated the language and resubmitted it!

!Endorse it now! ---> Repeal "WA General Fund" <--- !Endorse it now!

[The Palentine]

And should it come up to vote, the Palentine will vote no. I'd rather have the devil I know, than a possiple clusterf@@k later. Unlike you and others I barely trust transparent democracy. I especially don't trust most of my fellow ambassadors here to ever do the right thing. i don't belive in the inherent goodness and benevolence of mankind. left to his own devices man is a selfish and nasty creature. with some transparent and more fair(I also hate that concept as well) system put in place of the General Fund, the little good work the Festering Snakepit does will be ground to a halt. Everyone gets to debate and nothing EVER gets done. Vox populi vox humbug!

Excelsior,
Sen. Horatio Sulla

[The Altani Confederacy]

We must agree with our honorable colleague from the Palentine; repeal of this measure seems most unwise to us for the reasons he stated. For those reasons, we cannot support this repeal, though as always, we will go with our region's vote on the matter. (Yes, we abide by the mandate of democracy within our region, even in circumstances where we do not like it.)

-Sophie Fournier, Commonwealth WA Ambassador and Delegate of Lavinium

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

Pursuant to private diplomatic discussions with the Dutch Democratic Republic, and in exchange for shelving this ill-advised repeal project (and not contributing to any other WAGF repeal projects), I am authorized to propose an exclusive Free Trade Zone between the Federal Republic of Omigodtheykilledkenny and the Dutch Democratic Republic of Knootoss, and all political possessions thereof. Just picture it, Ambassador Koopman, if you will: an entire nation, an Antarctic economic powerhouse, simply flooded with affordable, quality Knootian products and goods, and an incredibly stupid populace, rendered even stupider by hopeless addiction to Pink Bunny Cola! And you, Ambassador, as a mammoth share-holder in that particular company, personally profiting off their misery and regret! How could you, as a right-thinking, freedom-loving corporate whore purveyor of free enterprise, possibly pass up such a tempting offer?

[waves a fan of Kennyite bank notes tantalizingly in front of Aram's face]

Our money...you know you want it!

We eagerly await Ambassador Koopman's reply.

- Sammy Faisano, vice president of the Federal Republic

[Knootoss]

Money is nice. Throw in a few of those dancing ladies and you've got a deal.


Ambassador Aram Koopman
World Assembly representative for the Dutch Democratic Republic of Knootoss

[Ardchoilleans]

Noting that Mr -- I'm so sorry, Vice President -- Faisano is handling the negotiations calls to mind an old saying: who sups with the devil should use a long spoon.

I hope Ambassador Koopman will be the one who ends up with the shiny fiddle made of gold, but I wouldn't bet the house on it.

-- Avaya Thibaudet, hoping after recent achievements to become ex-Minister for Foreign Affairs for Ardchoille.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

Faisano had opened his mouth in reply to Koopman's counter-offer, but was silenced almost as soon as the breath reached his voice-box. His stomach gave a sudden lurch when a familiar sweet voice interrupted the proceedings. Normally he would have sniped mercilessly at the individual -- who in their right mind tries to queer a lucrative trade deal? -- but he was rendered momentarily mute when he turned to the Artichokevillian table and saw who it was. God, she always looked so hot when she wore that leather get-up she had gotten from Commander Chiang, especially the way she liked to doll it up with girly ribbons...

I really have to apologize to Mr. Koopman for the sudden outburst from my ex; it appears Miss Thibaudet will waste no opportunity to sell her book, which I assume is still available for order on amazon.com? Shrugs at Avaya. But I have some good news for the Knootian ambassador: I was able to text Cdr. Chiang while he was speaking, and she has agreed to let you have a little, er, quality time with the girls from the Navy 56th!

He turns expectantly toward one of the entrances at the rear of the chamber, as the doors swing open and a row of luscious ladies wearing tiny little sailor outfits strolls down the aisle.

Don't worry, Mr. Koopman, you're in excellent hands. I can personally vouch for their skills. They gave me a dance on my last birthday and it was the best I ever had!

Turns slightly in the direction of the Artichokeville section.

The best I ever had!

-- Sammy Faisano, Vice President of the Federal Republic

[Ardchoilleans]

Turns slightly in the direction of the Artichokeville section.

The best I ever had!

-- Sammy Faisano, Vice President of the Federal Republic

"I'm sure you believed it was," Avaya said sweetly, unclenching her fingers, which of their own accord had assumed the position for delivering a whole-body itch spell. "Cdr Chiang is a true professional. Apparently her graduates can convince even the most unpromising, er, dance partner that his performance was up to standard. And speaking of promises, Ambassador Koopman, I would advise you to get the terms of any agreement with Mr Faisano written up, signed and secured as soon as possible. We'd be happy to lend you an auditor or two."

"Indeed we would,"agreed a slightly breathless John McGonnagle, hurrying into the Assembly. "And in view of my knowledge of international business law my President has generously allowed me to place myself entirely at your disposal, gentlemen. So perhaps we should adjourn to one of the committee rooms to discuss this further? We don't want to hold up Assembly business. And unfortunately Mlle Thibaudet has to leave ..."

It was a rare Ardchoillean who could withstand a telepathic blast from the Secretary for Situations Like This. Avaya swayed only slightly at that "leave", and recovered soon enough to send the blushing McGonnagle a lurid picture of possible outcomes of any conference involving the diplomatic trio and the girls of the 56th. But she left. Even after all this time, being this close to her Sammy was distinctly unsettling. No, not "her" Sammy. Oh, frumenty!

==//==

[Bears Armed]

Turns slightly in the direction of the Artichokeville section.

The best I ever had!

-- Sammy Faisano, Vice President of the Federal Republic

"Uh-oh..."

[Knootoss]

The delegation from Knootoss will need a five minute recess to deal with the, ah, appraisal of the deal on offer. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.


Ambassador Aram Koopman
World Assembly representative for the Dutch Democratic Republic of Knootoss