WBC vs Kim Davis

[Tekania]

I wonder if she will continue to be paid while she is confined.

Don't US prisoners get the chance to earn small amounts while confined? I would hope she is afforded the same opportunities other criminals.

Yes, she can scrub toilets for .25 cents an hour..... assuming it does not violate her supposed Christian sensibilities.

[Katganistan]

Translation: Stop telling me I have to be equal to everyone else! Oppression!

Christians (including myself) generally believe that they are ordained for better in the first place, the ones that will be accepted into Heaven while the heretic, heathen, and morally bankrupt rot in a hot place.

Then don't take a job or KEEP a job that violates your beliefs. Simple as.

[Tekania]

A conscience objector is someone who objects to the carrying out a particular required role and is excused from that role. She's not a conscience objector.... he's attempting to remain attached to the role while abnegating certain parts of it.

She is free to object.... by resignation.

Oh my...!! How many times do i have I say leave my posts alone!! These are old, and i don't care about this anymore.

No. You do not have any authority to order me to not respond to you. I am free to speak my mind on this forum within the rules and guidelines. If you think my response is out of line, take it up with moderation. If they find my responses out of line, they will issue me some sort of infraction.

[Katganistan]

I was thinking about thid earlier and was wondering from a biblical standpoint if it is wrong to deny a gay couple marriage license.

Jesus did say to give to Caesar's what is Caesar's. Paul also said we are to obey earthly governments because has put those people in charge and those in power will be judged by God for their actions.

However, their are cases in the Bible where people disobeyed the government and it was right. Examples include the wisemen who decided not to go back to Herod after they found Jesus, Daniel refused to bow to a statue made by King Nebachadnezzer.

Paul was thrown in prison for preaching the Gospel, which was against the law.

So in some cases, it is right to disobey the government if it goes against what God commands.

The question is, is refusing a marriage license because someone believes its a sin justified?

Paul chose to break the law, and was subject to the consequences.

Civil marriage is not holy matrimony.

Santa Claus is not really at the mall; it's a guy in a suit PRETENDING to be Santa Claus.

And other such 'duh, it's really apparent' statements.

Freedom of Religion means you can practice your religion without being abused. It doesn't grant you the right to abuse others.

The clerk is being abused for being against gay marriage, because of her religion. She is not abusing anyone by not getting the license to the gay couple.

She is abusing the civil rights of ALL couples in her county by refusing to issue licenses to anyone.
How on Earth is this difficult to comprehend?

Nope. You know what you sign up for. You can politely ask your employer, but you can't refuse.

Remember that bakery thing? It'd be the same if my religion was anti heterosexual

I disagree.
I also disagree with baker ruling.

Agents of the state, which this broad is, have the expectation to up hold the civil rights of others, and have no expectation to include their religion in their work...because they are agents of the state.

Private business is another matter.

Private businesses selling to the public cannot discriminate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obergefell_v._Hodges

Given your posts, it's clear that you are homophobic.

It's not homophobic if it is wrong. I won't let my religion play a part in this debate, but clearly you forced it out. It's like calling someone a coward for not serving in the armed forces, because their religion says that they cant kill. "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." Straight from the Christian Bible. King James Version.

Who cares? The US is a SECULAR, not CHRISTIAN government.

[The Alma Mater]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obergefell_v._Hodges

Given your posts, it's clear that you are homophobic.

It's not homophobic if it is wrong. I won't let my religion play a part in this debate, but clearly you forced it out. It's like calling someone a coward for not serving in the armed forces, because their religion says that they cant kill.

Which indeed would be wrong.
Then again, you voluntarily *joining* the armed forces and then refusing to kill AND refusing to leave the armed forces AND demanding to still get paid... what should that be called ?

[Tekania]

It's not homophobic if it is wrong. I won't let my religion play a part in this debate, but clearly you forced it out. It's like calling someone a coward for not serving in the armed forces, because their religion says that they cant kill.

Which indeed would be wrong.
Then again, you voluntarily *joining* the armed forces and then refusing to kill AND refusing to leave the armed forces AND demanding to still get paid... what should that be called ?

I'm not sure if there is an official term for it, but I personally would call that fucktarded.

[The Alma Mater]

Freedom of Religion means you can practice your religion without being abused. It doesn't grant you the right to abuse others.

The clerk is being abused for being against gay marriage, because of her religion. She is not abusing anyone by not getting the license to the gay couple.

So if this was about a devout muslim clerk who believes that women should not be driving cars and refuses to give drivers licences to women - that would not be abuse of power to enforce his own personal beliefs on others ?

[Page]

Freedom of Religion means you can practice your religion without being abused. It doesn't grant you the right to abuse others.

The clerk is being abused for being against gay marriage, because of her religion. She is not abusing anyone by not getting the license to the gay couple.

She is abusing taxpayers by sucking up an $80,000 a year salary like a greedy pig and refusing to do the job she's paid for. She doesn't have to give out marriage licenses to gays and she doesn't have to be in jail. If she quit her job she would be released immediately.

[Neutraligon]

*** Warned for flaming ***

How exactly is that a flame, what insult did I hurl, what generalization did I make?
I didn't point out their lack of reading comprehension.

I'm sorry is it against the rules to tell someone they've obviously got a chip on their shoulder or that they're so concerned with it while they're yammering from their soap box to notice when they being agreed with?

Please don't pretend there are manners required here, and by no means is fucking courtesy expected.
If he isn't expected to fucking read what he's responding to, I can't be expected to smile and pretend I said anything like what he is lodging a response to.

...Sorry for misreading your post. There was no need to respond with such vitriol considering it was a simple misread.

[Imperializt Russia]

All but her son.
Noooo, no nepotism there.

Don't forget she took the position after her mother left it.

I was under the impression this was an elected position. Elected by who?

Translation: Stop telling me I have to be equal to everyone else! Oppression!

Christians (including myself) generally believe that they are ordained for better in the first place, the ones that will be accepted into Heaven while the heretic, heathen, and morally bankrupt rot in a hot place.

I would hope that most Christians do not believe that, since it would make most Christians narcissistic jerks.

The clerk is being abused for being against gay marriage, because of her religion. She is not abusing anyone by not getting the license to the gay couple.

So if this was about a devout muslim clerk who believes that women should not be driving cars and refuses to give drivers licences to women - that would not be abuse of power to enforce his own personal beliefs on others ?

Much like gay marriage in Christianity, I'm pretty sure "women should not drive" isn't exactly covered in the Quran.

[Arbitrary Humans]

I'd like everyone to know that the clerk has been jailed for contempt.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34145941

[The Huskar Social Union]

I'd like everyone to know that the clerk has been jailed for contempt.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34145941

Personally i would have had just removed from office but she wanted to go down this route so good.

[Ifreann]

It's not homophobic if it is wrong. I won't let my religion play a part in this debate, but clearly you forced it out. It's like calling someone a coward for not serving in the armed forces, because their religion says that they cant kill.

Which indeed would be wrong.
Then again, you voluntarily *joining* the armed forces and then refusing to kill AND refusing to leave the armed forces AND demanding to still get paid... what should that be called ?

"Sir".

[Deuxtete]

Don't forget she took the position after her mother left it.

I was under the impression this was an elected position. Elected by who?

Christians (including myself) generally believe that they are ordained for better in the first place, the ones that will be accepted into Heaven while the heretic, heathen, and morally bankrupt rot in a hot place.

I would hope that most Christians do not believe that, since it would make most Christians narcissistic jerks.

So if this was about a devout muslim clerk who believes that women should not be driving cars and refuses to give drivers licences to women - that would not be abuse of power to enforce his own personal beliefs on others ?

Much like gay marriage in Christianity, I'm pretty sure "women should not drive" isn't exactly covered in the Quran.

I'm not sure what the UK equivalent of a "good ol boy" system is, but imagine a small community, now Martha she's been the county clerk nigh on 30years, her daughters been a deputy clerk for 20, so when the daughter runs, she gets the votes...hell she is likely unchallenged, same last name, here comes the son, now here this family has 50 years of clerking, the son gets the votes.

Don't think elected cancels nepotism...its more seasoned.

[Deuxtete]

I'd like everyone to know that the clerk has been jailed for contempt.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34145941

We know

[Katganistan]

Bit silly to say that because someone's got a bad track record with marriage they can't hand out licenses. It's like saying someone who can't sing isn't qualified to write songs.

It's really not so much that she has a bad record with it, but the "sanctity of marriage" thing that religious opponents of same-ex marriage like to throw around, and, frankly, her smug assertion that she'll be forgiven but gay marriage is out of the question.

I know, it is extremely hypocritical especially given her out-of-wedlock twins through adultery, but it does not disqualify her from applying a stamp with her name to a computer generated sheet of paper.

[Deuxtete]

How exactly is that a flame, what insult did I hurl, what generalization did I make?
I didn't point out their lack of reading comprehension.

I'm sorry is it against the rules to tell someone they've obviously got a chip on their shoulder or that they're so concerned with it while they're yammering from their soap box to notice when they being agreed with?

Please don't pretend there are manners required here, and by no means is fucking courtesy expected.
If he isn't expected to fucking read what he's responding to, I can't be expected to smile and pretend I said anything like what he is lodging a response to.

...Sorry for misreading your post. There was no need to respond with such vitriol considering it was a simple misread.

Apologies with with caveats, aren't.
Put it with the chip and the soapbox.

[Imperializt Russia]

It's really not so much that she has a bad record with it, but the "sanctity of marriage" thing that religious opponents of same-ex marriage like to throw around, and, frankly, her smug assertion that she'll be forgiven but gay marriage is out of the question.

I know, it is extremely hypocritical especially given her out-of-wedlock twins through adultery, but it does not disqualify her from applying a stamp with her name to a computer generated sheet of paper.

I have heard that she has had four marriages, to further hammer more nails in the coffin of the "sanctity of traditional marriage" justification she's putting through, if true.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Living in the South, I've already heard people decry this, the outrage of her being jailed because she held strong in her convictions, and yadda yadda yadda. Of course, I am sure that the people around here decrying this do not understand that this clerk wasn't sent to jail because she's a Christian. She was sent to jail because she violated the law despite being warned that she had to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples. And if she didn't want to do it, she could've had someone else do it and not just virtually shutting down her division like she did.

I have no sympathy towards her. None.

[Ifreann]

I know, it is extremely hypocritical especially given her out-of-wedlock twins through adultery, but it does not disqualify her from applying a stamp with her name to a computer generated sheet of paper.

I have heard that she has had four marriages, to further hammer more nails in the coffin of the "sanctity of traditional marriage" justification she's putting through, if true.

I wonder how she and the judge who won't divorce people would get along.

[The Alma Mater]

Which indeed would be wrong.
Then again, you voluntarily *joining* the armed forces and then refusing to kill AND refusing to leave the armed forces AND demanding to still get paid... what should that be called ?

"Sir".

Touche

[Deuxtete]

I know, it is extremely hypocritical especially given her out-of-wedlock twins through adultery, but it does not disqualify her from applying a stamp with her name to a computer generated sheet of paper.

I have heard that she has had four marriages, to further hammer more nails in the coffin of the "sanctity of traditional marriage" justification she's putting through, if true.

Her four marriages and child out of wed lock were prior to her religious conversion.
Honestly, her religion is irrelevant.
As a state agent she has 1 solitary master in the United States by which she administers her duties.
That master is the law of the land.

As a Christian I appreciate this sentiment because it protects me from the tyranny of a state religion. She is imposing a defacto(using that right?) state religion by using her religion as a meter for official duties.

Her religion in this issue means nothing, that's the point.

For Christians who support her, you either aren't American or you hate this nation.
America was founded on Christian ideas, like giving unto Caesar what is his, and not serving two masters. The seperation of the State from the Church was to ensure the continuing equality of people, and to defend the church from government corruption.
Applauding this woman politicizing our faith in the name of self righteous judgement is deplorable.
Nothing says she has to like same sex marriage, nothing says she has to wish them luck, nothing says she has to be at the ceremony, but if she believes they are sinners...she does have to forgive them, she does have to love them, and she Damned well has to treat the same under man's law, a law she swore as a Christian to uphold.

Let her say a prayer for them...but they get the Damned license.

[Dyakovo]

Hah!

Jailed for refusing to violate her beliefs. How funny.

No, jailed for refusing to obey the law.

[Ifreann]

Jailed for refusing to violate her beliefs. How funny.

No, jailed for refusing to obey the law.

Weird how that works.

[The Black Forrest]

No, jailed for refusing to obey the law.

Weird how that works.

It almost shocking.