California college bans American flag from part of campus

[United North Atlantic States]

Liberalism and political correctness is ruining America.

Can't you tell the difference between liberalism and neoliberalism? Or is that too much to ask of you?

[Keyboard Warriors]

I don't. Why choose to have it represent only the bad parts of our history?

The argument is that it doesn't only represent the GOOD parts of US history.

"its display “does not express only selective aspects of its symbolism but the entire spectrum of its interpretation.”"

It is inappropriate to celebrate the bad things that have been done representing that, and any flag, in the opinion of the students who have participated in this vote, in the context of the student government room.

No flag, mascot or crest or otherwise is ever (or should ever be) taken to symbolize the entire spectrum of its interpretation as that would just be silly. To attempt to a apply such a policy in which all possible interpretations of flags is only going to end in a lot more tears than would a thoughtful consideration of the message and symbolism behind them.

Frankly they can ban it if they want to, it's their choice to do so. So long as they're aware that their reasoning doesn't make a great deal of sense. They could have just said "we'd be more comfortable without the flag" rather than this pseudo-intellectualism bs.

[Vista Major]

Srsly....

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2015/03/06/uc-irvine-students-vote-to-remove-american-flag-from-campus-lobby/

Students at UC Irvine have voted for a more “inclusive space” by banning the American flag on part of the campus.
Under resolution R50-70 passed Thursday, the Associated Students of UCI voted to remove all flags, including Old Glory, from a student government work room on campus, according to the Associated Students website.

A portion of the resolution reads: “(F)lags construct paradigms of conformity and sets homogenized standards for others to obtain which in this country typically are idolized as freedom, equality and democracy.”

Authored by student Matthew Guevara, the resolution goes on to state that since “the American flag has been flown in instances of colonialism and imperialism,” its display “does not express only selective aspects of its symbolism but the entire spectrum of its interpretation.”

This is just beyond bullshit. I hope the liberals on this site will agree with me that while America is certainly guilty of its fair share of crimes and has often overstepped its constitutional boundaries, it has also done many wonderful things for this world, such as ending World War II and defeating Nazi Germany, the Civil Rights Movement and equality for minorities, putting man on the moon, the Industrial revolution, and standing as a bastion of free speech and enterprise throughout its 200-some year history. I understand these students' points that the U.S. is guilty of several horrible crimes over the years (slavery, segregation, imperialism, drug war, etc., not that those are uniquely American to begin with), but it is the United States Constitution that gives these kids the right to say what they want, express how they feel, and live safely in a first-world nation.

I say this not as some faux-patriot sissy but as a decent American that our flag should be flown with pride as it represents, in my opinion, equality, individual liberty, and the voluntary and open exchange of ideas and goods. No we are not perfect, but what country is? And what other country has university students that would bring down their own homeland for the sake of political correctness? You've got to figure that if immigrants are living in America, they are damn well pleased with how it treats them. It seems that only in America that we nitpick at non-existent issues to make everyone "feel included". I don't understand it. If these (public school) kids are so disgusted with the display of American memorabilia in their school, I highly suggest they ought to cut the funding they receive from the republic which the flag stands for.

Thoughts?

I am a liberal and totally support the college's decision. It's just an American flag, not America itself. But it should be replaced with something international, maybe. It's their choice

[United North Atlantic States]

~~*WELL THEN MAYBE THAT'S WHY THEY DON'T WANT ANY FLAGS LOL*~~

Then why have states and nations at all? See how absurd the argument can become?

I don't get it. How exactly does that make the argument "absurd"?

[Alyakia]

Because there's fuck all in the way of good parts?

Let's see:
Abolitionism
Passage of the 13th and 14th Amendments
Industrialization
Civil Rights Movement
Women's suffrage movement
Creation of National Parks
Desegregation
NASA
Defeat of Nazi Germany

Flags don't only represent governments, but nations and their people. That's why I also included good things Americans have done independently of the government.

don't you find it funny that you include "we were so horrible that people literally came home from nazi germany lamenting how shit their own country treated them comparatively and well 30 years later we decided to stop being so horrible, waaaaaaay behind the curve" as a good thing

[Oneracon]

~~*WELL THEN MAYBE THAT'S WHY THEY DON'T WANT ANY FLAGS LOL*~~

Then why have states and nations at all? See how absurd the argument can become?

No one is calling for the disbanding of states and other polities, nor for banning the American flag from anywhere else on this campus.

This is one resolution, about one room, that used valid criticism as part of its reasoning in removing all flags from the room.

[The Grim Reaper]

Liberalism and political correctness is ruining America.

Can't you tell the difference between liberalism and neoliberalism? Or is that too much to ask of you?

I don't think neoliberalism is what he's looking for, and neither is classical liberalism - I assume he's referring to Democrat-leaning or the far-left. You want social liberalism.

[Conserative Morality]

don't you find it funny that you include "we were so horrible that people literally came home from nazi germany lamenting how shit their own country treated them comparatively and well 30 years later we decided to stop being so horrible, waaaaaaay behind the curve" as a good thing

Reform isn't a good thing?

[Lenciland]

I thought that we'd all be thrilled. A group of politically active young people democraticly deciding on a resolution that they believed in. What's more American than that?

[Alyakia]

~~*WELL THEN MAYBE THAT'S WHY THEY DON'T WANT ANY FLAGS LOL*~~

Then why have states and nations at all? See how absurd the argument can become?

not long before the student government storms the white house and declares full anarchism now

...can anarchists declare anarchism? seems not very anarchist.

[Olthar]

They took it, along with all other flags, out of one room. Get over yourselves.

^

[Sheltopolis]

I don't. Why choose to have it represent only the bad parts of our history?

Because there's more bad than good?

So it must be the case then that a glance at the American flag instinctively reminds most people of slavery, segregation, Jim Crow, Indian genocide, and imperialism? That's quite a stretch.

I feel this is just another case of (a few) whiny, overprotective college campus liberals choosing to feel offended on the behalf of others.

[Geilinor]

Then why have states and nations at all? See how absurd the argument can become?

I don't get it. How exactly does that make the argument "absurd"?

The idea that if a group does some bad things it shouldn't have a symbol to represent itself.

[Geilinor]

I don't. Why choose to have it represent only the bad parts of our history?

Because there's more bad than good?

That's completely subjective. When did history become a battle of bad versus good? You can't think about history like that.

[Oneracon]

I thought that we'd all be thrilled. A group of politically active young people democraticly deciding on a resolution that they believed in. What's more American than that?

It's like I said earlier:

They're expressing their opinions, even when they're unpopular, and that's the least American thing anyone can do!

[The Grim Reaper]

No flag, mascot or crest or otherwise is ever (or should ever be) taken to symbolize the entire spectrum of its interpretation as that would just be silly. To attempt to a apply such a policy in which all possible interpretations of flags is only going to end in a lot more tears than would a thoughtful consideration of the message and symbolism behind them.

Frankly they can ban it if they want to, it's their choice to do so. So long as they're aware that their reasoning doesn't make a great deal of sense. They could have just said "we'd be more comfortable without the flag" rather than this pseudo-intellectualism bs.

*shrugs* They're final-year arts students (at least, that tends to be the bulk of student government appointments). I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they drafted the statement while writing an English paper. But, otherwise I agree with you.

[United Russian Soviet States]

Liberalism and political correctness is ruining America.

Can't you tell the difference between liberalism and neoliberalism? Or is that too much to ask of you?

They are practically the same.

Can't you tell the difference between liberalism and neoliberalism? Or is that too much to ask of you?

I don't think neoliberalism is what he's looking for, and neither is classical liberalism - I assume he's referring to Democrat-leaning or the far-left. You want social liberalism.

I am referring to social liberalism.

[United North Atlantic States]

I don't get it. How exactly does that make the argument "absurd"?

The idea that if a group does some bad things it shouldn't have a symbol to represent itself.

What does that have to do with governing states? I hope you realize that states are more than mere "symbols". There can be symbols of large groups of people without having governments that correspond to those symbols/groups directly.

[Alyakia]

don't you find it funny that you include "we were so horrible that people literally came home from nazi germany lamenting how shit their own country treated them comparatively and well 30 years later we decided to stop being so horrible, waaaaaaay behind the curve" as a good thing

Reform isn't a good thing?

reform is a good thing but there's a window where you can reasonably count it among the good things your country has done and for racial segregation the united states was way past that point. it'd be like if saudi arabia finally made women equal then people starting talking about all the good things saudi arabia has done and listed all the great strides they made in womens rights as examples of how good it is. i'd probably just laugh at them and tell them that there's no way they will ever be able to list "women's rights" as a good thing their country has done.

[The Grim Reaper]

Because there's more bad than good?

So it must be the case then that a glance at the American flag instinctively reminds most people of slavery, segregation, Jim Crow, Indian genocide, and imperialism? That's quite a stretch.

What do you think it instinctively reminds people of?

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Ridiculous. Fox couldn't do a better job of painting lefty American students as being anti-patriotic and having no love of country. In reality, it's just the sort of silliness that college students with no real world experience engage in in order to make points, and is therefore worthy of little more than an eyeroll.

They're expressing their opinions, even when they're unpopular, and that's the least American thing anyone can do!

Oh, they're well within their rights, but it's just silly and meaningless. They think that they're taking a brave stand, but in reality, they're coming across as a bunch of self-righteous dipshits.

[Geilinor]

So it must be the case then that a glance at the American flag instinctively reminds most people of slavery, segregation, Jim Crow, Indian genocide, and imperialism? That's quite a stretch.

What do you think it instinctively reminds people of?

The United States of America, which involves a spectrum of things.

[Saint-Germaine]

Is this really even worth the discussion? This isn't even a ban. They removed all flags from the room. Its the choice of the students who use the damn room. Either permit all flags or allow none. Sort of like religions in government. In most cases allowing none tends to be the better option. I personally don't give a damn which flag you want to fly, or which faith you practice, or what party you belong to. Why does anyone give a damn about what other people do as long as it does not harm, hinder, or limit someone else. I saw that it was mentioned that this is a public institution. No college or university in the United States is a truly public institution. They are private but receive public subsidies. I suppose if you want to stop those subsidies over something like this then I guess its your right to raise that question but at the end of the day its the choice of the University what they want to do on their land. So everybody chill out.

[The Grim Reaper]

What do you think it instinctively reminds people of?

The United States of America, which involves a spectrum of things.

And you celebrate that spectrum of things?

[United North Atlantic States]

I am referring to social liberalism.

Then don't generalize what you are referring to as "liberalism".