California college bans American flag from part of campus

[Renewed Dissonance]

While I agree with Scomagia about the flag's symbolism, I side with liberty. All censorship is wrong. Even Nazi flags shouldn't be banned.

A student organization deciding how or how not to decorate its own space/office is counter-"liberty" and/or censorship in which way?

It seems rather unfair to the opposition within the student government, if there is any.

The OPs article clearly states that the vote was 6 for, 4 against, and 2 abstain. From this we can conclude that a) there is opposition; b) the decision taken actually affects 12 entire people; and thus c) this is an overblown non-issue.

...doesn't the student government (theoretically) represent the student body?

Does this "government" have a flag?

This is one resolution...

True.

...about one room...

Yep.

...that used valid criticism as part of its reasoning.

Not really, since, as will all cultural artifacts, the meaning of any flag is purely constructed at a specific point of time to serve a specific set of ideological interests. Those interests can be objectively vile (as with slave owners, white supremacists, or Los Angeles-area news blog commentators), or they can be exemplary of a better world.

The error the students made with their decision was not in being "unpatriotic" (whatever that means), or engaging in censorship (which they haven't) or for being "liberal" ( ).

Their error is in the fact that by taking their decision, they ignore and so turn their backs on the exemplars of a better world by surrendering an extremely powerful cultural artifact to the apologists of slavery, white supremacy, and hatred.

I thought that we'd all be thrilled. A group of politically active young people democraticly deciding on a resolution that they believed in. What's more American than that?

But they're democratically decided wrong. And they've got foreign-y sounding names. Real fifth column stuff.

All twelve of them.

To be honest I don't think it reminds people most people of anything, it's just a flag. ... but I feel most people are indifferent.

So then, removing it from one room used by 12 entire people is not a big deal after all.....?

I wonder how much money the taxpayer can save by removing the flags from all public schools? Plus no one will have to do that bs pledge anymore.

Finally, an actual libertarian! Just to be sure, finish this sentence: Ron Paul is a __________ !

[Dyakovo]

And a former US Marine is in complete agreement with him.

Clearly you both hate America.

Clearly.

[Dyakovo]

Finally, an actual libertarian! Just to be sure, finish this sentence: Ron Paul is a __________ !

Racist loon

[Oneracon]

...doesn't the student government (theoretically) represent the student body?

Does this "government" have a flag?

I have never seen a student government have its own flag. A logo maybe, but not a flag.

[Renewed Dissonance]

Finally, an actual libertarian! Just to be sure, finish this sentence: Ron Paul is a __________ !

Racist loon

Glorious.

[Imperializt Russia]

Does this "government" have a flag?

I have never seen a student government have its own flag. A logo maybe, but not a flag.

England leads the way.

[Renewed Dissonance]

As a US Military Veteran I have absolutely zero issue with a student government at a university voting to not display the US flag in their one student government room, or voting to keep it, or voting for anything. This seems like such a non-story and non-issue.

A US Navy Seaman just commented on this being trivial for him. I think if you're going to argue with this, I'll believe a veteran's words more than some random internet guy.

And a former US Marine is in complete agreement with him.

What specifically is it about being veterans that informs your opinions regarding this (non-)issue? I'm genuinely curious to know more about your thoughts/values/ideas/etc.

The Navy and Marine Corps are both very significant in my area of the United States, so I've been able to observe as a civilian outsider. I'm especially curious since some of my immediate and extended family are veterans who would tend to make the OPs opinion seem relatively tame.

What does the US Flag represent to you and how does your service inform that representation?

[Katganistan]

I have never seen a student government have its own flag. A logo maybe, but not a flag.

England leads the way.

Great, now we have to ban walls.

[Dyakovo]

As a US Military Veteran I have absolutely zero issue with a student government at a university voting to not display the US flag in their one student government room, or voting to keep it, or voting for anything. This seems like such a non-story and non-issue.

And a former US Marine is in complete agreement with him.

What specifically is it about being veterans that informs your opinions regarding this (non-)issue? I'm genuinely curious to know more about your thoughts/values/ideas/etc.

The Navy and Marine Corps are both very significant in my area of the United States, so I've been able to observe as a civilian outsider. I'm especially curious since some of my immediate and extended family are veterans who would tend to make the OPs opinion seem relatively tame.

What does the US Flag represent to you and how does your service inform that representation?

The US flag represents the country, and by extension everything it has done, both good and bad. Ergo, the student government's reasons for taking the flag down is spot on.
It also is just a little silly, but since it only affects their room, it's a complete non-issue. They are free to display flags (or not display them) as they so choose in their room.
Not flying the flag does not make you any less an American. Some people seriously need to get over their flag fetish.

[Renewed Dissonance]

What specifically is it about being veterans that informs your opinions regarding this (non-)issue? I'm genuinely curious to know more about your thoughts/values/ideas/etc.

The Navy and Marine Corps are both very significant in my area of the United States, so I've been able to observe as a civilian outsider. I'm especially curious since some of my immediate and extended family are veterans who would tend to make the OPs opinion seem relatively tame.

What does the US Flag represent to you and how does your service inform that representation?

The US flag represents the country, and by extension everything it has done, both good and bad. Ergo, the student government's reasons for taking the flag down is spot on.

Doesn't refusing to display the flag for the specific reasons given by the students necessarily surrender or abandon the good? Why would they choose to emphasize the bad when they could defend the good instead? At the very least, does not removing a physical reminder of the bad risk providing the bad with safety in obscurity? "Those who don't study history are doomed, etc?"

Not flying the flag does not make you any less an American.

What does make an American?

[Nuwe Suid Afrika]

I feel very misled by the title.

Very, very misled.

It's one room. I don't see the big deal about it, although I'm questioning why it was such an issue that it had to be removed in the first place.

[Dyakovo]

The US flag represents the country, and by extension everything it has done, both good and bad. Ergo, the student government's reasons for taking the flag down is spot on.

Doesn't refusing to display the flag for the specific reasons given by the students necessarily surrender or abandon the good? Why would they choose to emphasize the bad when they could defend the good instead? At the very least, does not removing a physical reminder of the bad risk providing the bad with safety in obscurity? "Those who don't study history are doomed, etc?"

Not flying the flag does not make you any less an American.

What does make an American?

1: No.
2: Being a citizen.

[Nuwe Suid Afrika]

Did the thread formatting go out of whack for anyone else just now?

[Imperializt Russia]

It's the subsequent quoting and spoilering of the image I posted.
It happens.

Either the person who quoted it can try and un-spoiler the image (this may fix it), or we can call on/wait for a mod to arrive to fix it with better understanding of the phpBB code.

[Hyfling]

Did the thread formatting go out of whack for anyone else just now?

Yep. It happens sometimes. Mods will fix it.

[United Russian Soviet States]

I am glad that the ban was overturned. Liberal values shall not destroy America!

[Oneracon]

I am glad that the ban was overturned.

I understand that you appear to have some trouble grasping facts... but there was no ban. There was a resolution to remove all flags from one room. The student government's legislature passed said resolution, and then student government executive vetoed it.

This whole manufactured controversy by right-wingers was just ridiculous.

EDIT: Incidentally, here is a source on the removal being vetoed since URSS neglected to link it

Liberal values shall not destroy America!

Says the person with no idea what the word "liberal" actually means.

[Liriena]

I see no problem here. Sure, the rationale given is not a masterpiece of social science, but it sounds like a very minor, symbolic act, in a nation that seems to have an overabundance of patriotic displays everywhere else.

Granted, I'm personally not a big fan of nationalism.

[Krieg-Deathworld]

Where are all my Über-Fascist Nationalists?

[Dyakovo]

Liberal values shall not destroy America!

This is true.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

I am glad that the ban was overturned. Liberal values shall not destroy America!

Indeed. They may actually save it.

[The Liberated Territories]

Finally, an actual libertarian! Just to be sure, finish this sentence: Ron Paul is a __________ !

Politician

[Shaggtopia]

This is interesting, it's stupid, but interesting.
I keep trying but I can't bring myself to care. I haven't been able to care since middle school when I stopped saying the pledge. Which I stopped saying because that was around the time I stopped believing my nation was the greatest force for good. When I realized it has been in a constant state of war since before I was born.
And I am proud of America, I am proud of it's ability to recognize problems within itself and work (albeit slowly) to fix them, I am proud of it's accomplishments that it's been praising itself for since before I was born. But I am ashamed of it's people who desire to control more than themselves, I am ashamed of McCartheism, I am ashamed of our genocide, I am ashamed of our continued history of oppression and I am ashamed of our desire to blame the victim for the actions of the victimizer.

I am proud and ashamed of America, and it is in this spirit that I refuse to care what happens to it's flag.

[Katganistan]

It's the subsequent quoting and spoilering of the image I posted.
It happens.

Either the person who quoted it can try and un-spoiler the image (this may fix it), or we can call on/wait for a mod to arrive to fix it with better understanding of the phpBB code.

Fixed. The "close spoiler" tag was put outside of the "close quote" tag. I put it in its proper place.

[The Kievan People]

The US flag represents the country, and by extension everything it has done, both good and bad. Ergo, the student government's reasons for taking the flag down is spot on.

Nah, but it does does highlight the typical childish attitude of western university lefties.

The nationstate is the single most powerful tool for social change in existence. As difficult as at it might be to achieve progressive social change within the national framework, it is all but impossible outside of it. Whining about it definitely isn't going to make America, or anywhere, a better place.

Some people seriously need to get over their flag fetish.

This would have been good advice for the student council.