Should Women Have to Sign Up For Selective Service Too?

[Caninope]

Good thing that I don't necessarily believe that freedom is an inherent good then.

What an American!

Gag me with a spoon...

That's not a very American thing to say, actually.

American rhetoric is drenched with talk of rights, freedom, and liberty.

[The Rich Port]

What an American!

Gag me with a spoon...

That's not a very American thing to say, actually.

American rhetoric is drenched with talk of rights, freedom, and liberty.

I was being sarcastic, the most American joking style.

I guess that's why you wouldn't recognize that...

[Ayreonia]

Selective service should be abolished on the grounds that it is indefensible to compel an individual to kill another against their wishes. In the meantime however, everyone should be required to sign up for sake of equality rather than OP's notion that rights have to be earned.

Killing is not a requirement of military service. There are thousands of noncombatant or low-intensity combat roles. Conscientious objector status is still a thing and has been issued to some thousands in the twentieth century.
Studies were done after WWII, though since cast doubt upon, that suggested that only one in five combat-serving infantrymen ever discharged their weapons. Similar studies, performed slightly later, suggested that approximately 2% of the infantry perform 50% of the killing.

These are the men who win themselves medals. They are exceptional and their standards are expected of no-one.

And go ahead and add to this that there are approximately five support personnel for one combatant, not even counting civilian contractors.

[Ifreann]

Why do we even have Selective Service anymore in the first place?

I imagine the actual reason is fear of losing votes by trying to get rid of it.

---

I'm beginning to wonder if there are any actual women here who have anything to say about this.

Probably not.

---

Because it is in place for the purpose of drafting people and many of us oppose the draft.

Drafting people in an event that is highly unlikely to occur, and if it were to occur, you'd be drafted regardless of whether SS was in place.
So...

So spend money forever on something that most likely won't ever happen and won't really be improved by having spent all that money if it does.

[The Holy Therns]

No, women shouldn't have to sign up. Neither should men or any other gender.

[Dyakovo]

Bringing it back is political suicide for the party who does it.

There won't be much of a party system left in the event anyway.

The instance that SS will be used to implement a draft will most likely be a European ground war and/or in response to a strategic nuclear exchange. The two may well go hand in hand.

Really? There wasn't much of a party system in 1917?
That's news to me.... As it undoubtedly would be to everyone then who was a member of a political party...

[New England and The Maritimes]

Nobody should have to sign up for selective service. Smash the state.

[Tahar Joblis]

Nobody should have to sign up for selective service. Smash the state.

It's very interesting that when we start talking about women, you suddenly express that sentiment.

Let me refresh your memory.

I would certainly like to see conscription and a mandatory draft, zero exceptions of any kind, for any military action against a sovereign nation. Then we'd see just how important warmongering really is.

Personally, I think we ought to have a draft. If we had a nation-wide conscription and congress made a full draft of every man 18-50, we'd never engage in an other stupid bullshit war again.

Selective service is bureaucracy. If they want to draft you, it won't matter if you've as yet registered. They'll just pick your name out of a hat if they want to.

I don't plan on ever joining the military, and I still signed up for it. All you're doing is saving time.

Of course they aren't. Were I in the military by impressment or conscription, I would refuse to fight. I'll take prison over killing someone unnecessarily.

You've previously stated, in other words, that while you don't like the military, you favor a draft on the grounds that a draft would make it politically difficult to engage in wrongful wars. You've also previously discouraged other people from trying to get rid of the Selective Service system. Yet suddenly, when we're talking about adding women to the Selective Service system, you swing around and start disapproving of the system entirely.

[Neutraligon]

I'm beginning to wonder if there are any actual women here who have anything to say about this.

Hi, I am a female. Either everyone should have to sign up or no one. Of course, if anyone is ever drafted the same exceptions that are made for men should also be made for women, with the addition of being pregnant or having just recently given birth).

[New England and The Maritimes]

Nobody should have to sign up for selective service. Smash the state.

It's very interesting that when we start talking about women, you suddenly express that sentiment.

Let me refresh your memory.

I would certainly like to see conscription and a mandatory draft, zero exceptions of any kind, for any military action against a sovereign nation. Then we'd see just how important warmongering really is.

Personally, I think we ought to have a draft. If we had a nation-wide conscription and congress made a full draft of every man 18-50, we'd never engage in an other stupid bullshit war again.

Selective service is bureaucracy. If they want to draft you, it won't matter if you've as yet registered. They'll just pick your name out of a hat if they want to.

I don't plan on ever joining the military, and I still signed up for it. All you're doing is saving time.

Of course they aren't. Were I in the military by impressment or conscription, I would refuse to fight. I'll take prison over killing someone unnecessarily.

You've previously stated, in other words, that while you don't like the military, you favor a draft on the grounds that a draft would make it politically difficult to engage in wrongful wars. You've also previously discouraged other people from trying to get rid of the Selective Service system. Yet suddenly, when we're talking about adding women to the Selective Service system, you swing around and start disapproving of the system entirely.

It's almost like people can, oh gosh I don't know, change their minds over a period of years. Nice to know you're as much of a stalker as always, though.

[Sdaeriji]

Nobody should have to sign up for selective service. Smash the state.

It's very interesting that when we start talking about women, you suddenly express that sentiment.

Let me refresh your memory.

I would certainly like to see conscription and a mandatory draft, zero exceptions of any kind, for any military action against a sovereign nation. Then we'd see just how important warmongering really is.

Personally, I think we ought to have a draft. If we had a nation-wide conscription and congress made a full draft of every man 18-50, we'd never engage in an other stupid bullshit war again.

Selective service is bureaucracy. If they want to draft you, it won't matter if you've as yet registered. They'll just pick your name out of a hat if they want to.

I don't plan on ever joining the military, and I still signed up for it. All you're doing is saving time.

Of course they aren't. Were I in the military by impressment or conscription, I would refuse to fight. I'll take prison over killing someone unnecessarily.

You've previously stated, in other words, that while you don't like the military, you favor a draft on the grounds that a draft would make it politically difficult to engage in wrongful wars. You've also previously discouraged other people from trying to get rid of the Selective Service system. Yet suddenly, when we're talking about adding women to the Selective Service system, you swing around and start disapproving of the system entirely.

I know if we could still access the Jolt and pre-Jolt forums, I could find posts from you supporting feminism et al. People can change their minds.

[Tahar Joblis]

I know if we could still access the Jolt and pre-Jolt forums, I could find posts from you supporting feminism et al. People can change their minds.

Yes, people can change their minds. There is the question, however, of why they change their minds. TBH, I didn't really have any idea of whether or not NE & TM previously supported the draft until he posted with his "smash the state" post.

At that point, I suspected that I would find what I would find with other feminist posters: A complete lack of prior stated opposition to the Selective Service System. After two minutes with the advanced search function, I found something strikingly more dramatic, because NE & TM actually endorsed conscription as recently as 2012. It's unusual to support the draft. Most curiously, the reason that NE & TM supported conscription (to limit warfare) actually is similar to one of the good reasons to require women to register for Selective Service (it is far more likely to lead to the system being dismantled).

A strong pattern among modern feminists (in particular those too young to have seen the Vietnam War unfold) who say that nobody should have to register for Selective Service in response to the question of whether or not women should start registering is that they really don't care about ending the Selective Service system, and their opposition to the Selective Service system only appears once we start talking about women.

[Kelinfort]

Selective service is archaic. End it.

[The Rich Port]

Selective service is archaic. End it.

Hey, only the most archaic shit is expected from the most archaic president.

[Archeuland and Baughistan]

Absolutely not; it is reprehensible to force women into the military or to combat situation. Fighting and such is a task for men! The women are free to be cooks, though, and anything nonviolent. That is how it ought to be.

[The City-State of Luxembourg]

The Selective service system needs to be abolished but for the time being yes

[The Union of the West]

Three words: end selective service.

[Neutraligon]

I know if we could still access the Jolt and pre-Jolt forums, I could find posts from you supporting feminism et al. People can change their minds.

Yes, people can change their minds. There is the question, however, of why they change their minds. TBH, I didn't really have any idea of whether or not NE & TM previously supported the draft until he posted with his "smash the state" post.

At that point, I suspected that I would find what I would find with other feminist posters: A complete lack of prior stated opposition to the Selective Service System. After two minutes with the advanced search function, I found something strikingly more dramatic, because NE & TM actually endorsed conscription as recently as 2012. It's unusual to support the draft. Most curiously, the reason that NE & TM supported conscription (to limit warfare) actually is similar to one of the good reasons to require women to register for Selective Service (it is far more likely to lead to the system being dismantled).

A strong pattern among modern feminists (in particular those too young to have seen the Vietnam War unfold) who say that nobody should have to register for Selective Service in response to the question of whether or not women should start registering is that they really don't care about ending the Selective Service system, and their opposition to the Selective Service system only appears once we start talking about women.

Could the reason possibly be because the only time the selective service really shows up in conversation is when people are talking about women and the selective service?

[United Marxist Nations]

The Constitution gives Congress the express power to draft an army, and the selective service is the most effective way to do that, so it's not going to go away.

[Spoder]

It'd better to abolish selective service, but if that won't happen then of course.

[United Marxist Nations]

It'd better to abolish selective service, but if that won't happen then of course.

Abolishing it would make drafting harder if it is needed, so it's not going to go away, and you can't get rid of Congress's power to draft.

[Spoder]

It'd better to abolish selective service, but if that won't happen then of course.

Abolishing it would make drafting harder if it is needed, so it's not going to go away, and you can't get rid of Congress's power to draft.

I understand that.

And having skimmed over some posts, many people are saying women should not have to sign up for selective service.

1. They pushed for combat roles, they have to take all the shit that goes with it.

2. Just because selective service is a thing, doesn't mean an anorexic teen can get into the military. Fitness standards are still kept in place.

[Tahar Joblis]

Yes, people can change their minds. There is the question, however, of why they change their minds. TBH, I didn't really have any idea of whether or not NE & TM previously supported the draft until he posted with his "smash the state" post.

At that point, I suspected that I would find what I would find with other feminist posters: A complete lack of prior stated opposition to the Selective Service System. After two minutes with the advanced search function, I found something strikingly more dramatic, because NE & TM actually endorsed conscription as recently as 2012. It's unusual to support the draft. Most curiously, the reason that NE & TM supported conscription (to limit warfare) actually is similar to one of the good reasons to require women to register for Selective Service (it is far more likely to lead to the system being dismantled).

A strong pattern among modern feminists (in particular those too young to have seen the Vietnam War unfold) who say that nobody should have to register for Selective Service in response to the question of whether or not women should start registering is that they really don't care about ending the Selective Service system, and their opposition to the Selective Service system only appears once we start talking about women.

Could the reason possibly be because the only time the selective service really shows up in conversation is when people are talking about women and the selective service?

Actually, it shows up more often than that. Do some advanced searches. In this particular case, NE & TM had talked about selective service, conscription, and the draft several times before. It's something that comes up periodically (perhaps slightly more often here than elsewhere, since the NS game primes people to discuss it by having mandatory military service as a basic issue option).

[The Rich Port]

Absolutely not; it is reprehensible to force women into the military or to combat situation. Fighting and such is a task for men! The women are free to be cooks, though, and anything nonviolent. That is how it ought to be.

Your shit-covered White Knight is showing.

So, the Brown Knight.

[Neutraligon]

Could the reason possibly be because the only time the selective service really shows up in conversation is when people are talking about women and the selective service?

Actually, it shows up more often than that. Do some advanced searches. In this particular case, NE & TM had talked about selective service, conscription, and the draft several times before. It's something that comes up periodically (perhaps slightly more often here than elsewhere, since the NS game primes people to discuss it by having mandatory military service as a basic issue option).

Hmm possibly, I have never had it come up except when dealing with women in the military.